AFCB Wildcat

My thinking is that by awarding 20, 18, 16 for the podium & points scored over 5 rides for the rest, is this. In my opinion, the LCQ should be just that. A last chance to prove that you can beat the guys who finished in front of you in qualifying. That chance is the reward for winning the LCQ. If you give 16 points for trailing in last in the final, there's the potential to enhance a 6 point total by a further 10 points for winning just one race in 7 when a 15 point max in qualifying can only be enhanced by 5 by winning the final. Going back to risk versus reward, I think that the the final would be much more competitive when there's potentially more points to gain by finishing 3rd, rather than one point difference to finishing last. I think the problem that the FIM and others had, was when the guys who were holding the trophies & spraying champagne were outscored. I don't think many would have a problem with the last place rider getting only his qualifying score.

I was about to post something very similar. Having seen a few rounds now, it doesn't sit right with me that a rider scoring 6 points over his five rides can trump a rider who has scored 11 by finishing higher in an LCQ. My preferred option would be 20-18-16 for top 3 and everyone else getting the points from their 5 heats. Why score extra points for finishing last in the final?

I'm sure you'll be back next year, along with 6399 others. I think Dean's point is that no matter how good the racing is, and even if all the problems encountered this year are resolved, how do you attract the missing thousands when you only have a 6400 capacity and there isn't room for them? The event can't grow at Belle Vue unless the capacity is increased. Unfortunately that can't be justified for a once a year event.

Maybe you should have asked him instead of your barbed comment.

No need to apologise. Your post was easy enough to understand. Unfortunately the forum is plagued with clever cnuts who think that their superior grasp of spelling or grammar make their opinions more valid. Unfortunately the grammar police don't have the intelligence to realise how boring they are, or that their attempts to demean others contribute nothing to the discussion.

Are you calling the temporary stand the big stand? If so, I reckon it's around 3400. Yes, I was sad enough to count the dots 😁 Stadium info that I've found online says 1800 seats in the main stand & 1200 standing in the south stand. That would make it 6400, which ties in with Wiki & other sources which say 6500 capacity with temporary stands.

The million or so people that attended football matches on the day of the Cardiff GP maybe? 🤔 I would suggest that there are a significant amount of fans that follow both their football and Speedway teams. Also Speedway fans who no longer have a track to attend, who usually went to Cardiff, but opted to watch their football team instead. Just looking at some of the user names on this forum, which is a small cross section of fans, shows a few with an affinity to a football team. Out of the small number of Speedway teams left, Manchester, Sheffield, Poole (Bournemouth) Leicester, Ipswich, Birmingham, Oxford & Plymouth had teams playing in the Premier league or EFL championship that day. Myself, along with 5 others who always went to Cardiff opted to go to Forest instead, to watch Bournemouth. Shovvy said on here, that he did too. I can't believe that out of that million that went to football that day, that we are the only ones that would have attended Cardiff if it was at it's traditional June/July (pre football season) date.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was referring to last years GP. Nobody will convince me that going head to head with the opening day of the football season didn't significantly affect the attendance.

It's a shame that whoever thought it was a good idea to pitch last year's Cardiff GP against the opening day of the Premier League season & a full football league programme didn't have the same foresight. Madness!!

I'd say that risk v reward comes in to play whatever the format. Many times I've watched team speedway on TV, where a team are comfortably in front and sit on a 2nd & 3rd with the commentators saying "3-3's will do them all night long." My point was that with this new GP format, it makes it more important to fight for every point than in last years format and the LCQ's are a lot harder to qualify from than the old semis. I'll admit that 10th place qualification didn't sit right with me when it was first announced. Having seen how it works though, I prefer it to last years format.

I did remember a comment like that, so I skimmed back through it and nothing like that was said in any of Zmarzliks heats. Do you mean heat 14 when Kurtz was chasing down Kvech for a lap? Kelvin said "I thought for a moment Kurtz was going to take the chance, but maybe now he's thinking why do it? 2 points will be better than none" .... Chris then said during the replay, that Kurtz probably thought, I'm not going to hurt myself here, it's not worth it. Not unreasonable in the circumstances, seeing that 2 points would keep him a point clear at the top of the leader board with a race to go, but ending up on his arse would relegate him to a LCQ position. No different from a rider in the old style world final not pushing for a win when 2 points would be enough to take the title. During the meeting, Kelvin also said "you can't throw in the towel or cruise around in this format, because every point will earn you a better gate position" Gate one was clearly dominant. Only two third places & one last, which was a retirement. 12 firsts & 8 second places, so clearly a huge advantage. Having said that, you wouldn't bet against Zmarzlik in any gate! I don't get the comments saying that it's boring because he has no challengers. If it was Lambert or Bewley dominating in the same fashion, it would be a different story.

I wasn't sure about the new format, but surely it discourages riders from taking it easy in the qualifying heats compared to last years format. It would certainly be a brave strategy, with 8 riders chasing just 2 places in a 'must win' last chance race. Especially when there was such a disparity in the gate positions on Saturday. Surely, the finishing positions in the qualifying heats are even more vital now, in order to avoid a grave yard gate in the LCQ, when only a win will suffice?

I don't think that there is a single poster on here that doesn't understand, or would dispute any of that. If the event was financially unviable at Cardiff, then it had to go. I've no problem with that, I don't expect anyone to suffer financial loss for my convenience. It has to be said though, that Belle Vue has a similar problem to Cardiff, in that it has to hire a substantial amount of temporary seating, which has made ticket prices significantly higher than Cardiff. After hearing lots of "good riddance to rip off Cardiff" comments, the alternative that these people wanted has been proved to be more expensive, in both accommodation & ticketing costs. Imagine the meltdown on here if Cardiff had raised ticket prices to £120 in order to make it work with 20k people. Yet, because Belle Vue have managed to sell out a 1800 seat grandstand at that price, we've got people on here saying that it proves that they've got the pricing right. The original intention when putting the GP's in big stadiums was to raise the profile of the events and bring it to a bigger audience. Initially, It was successful but ultimately it has failed. For me that's sad, and the question has to be asked, why? Is the product that bad? "Fans just want to see close racing on properly prepared track" we're told. If that was the case, Belle Vue would be packed every week, but unfortunately it's not, and can't justify a permanent increase in capacity. Something is obviously badly wrong when the Principality gets 40k people to watch some pickup trucks with big wheels, driving over obstacles, but a world championship Speedway event is relegated to an audience of 6400. There were more people at Dean Court last week to watch Bournemouth's women's football team. Moving the event to Belle Vue may be a necessity, but I'm with IainB on this one, it's beyond me how it can be seen as a positive.

Oh sorry, I forgot you get so precious. I just found it amusing that it was assumed my concern was the beating sun, when I was more concerned about needing a sou'wester & oil skins than AmbreSolaire. 😘

Cap & sunglasses??? In Manchester??? 🤣

Yes, I'm aware of that, but I did say 'fan base' and not people who regularly attend. I was including the fans that will turn up for big events like play offs but not regular fixtures, so I don't think my estimate is unreasonable for a GP. Probably a lot of fans couldn't afford to go on Monday after paying for their GP tickets? 😁

Correct me if I'm wrong, but but I'm guessing the capacity is circa 6400. It doesn't seem to be stated, but looking for stadium info online, the main stand is circa 1800, South stand standing 1200 & 3400 ish in the temporary East Stand. I guess that ties in with your 12K figure for 2 events. Given that Belle Vue is the biggest club in the UK, and home of the NSS, it would be reasonable to think that the Belle Vue fan base should account for around half of that 6400 capacity at each event. The pricing isn't going to be such an issue for them, without travel & accommodation costs it's cheaper than Cardiff. That would leave just 3000 tickets per event to sell to the wider Speedway audience. It would be sad for Speedway if that's not achievable, but could hardly be considered a success story for the sport or the event if it happens, because it's such a low bar to set. Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing Belle Vue of ripping people off. I'm sure it's priced at a level that it needs to be to make it work for them with the cost of the East Stand to cover & I genuinely hope it's a success. I'd pay those prices if it was at Poole, but I'd expect there to be some spiky comments from your neck of the woods if it was! The 2, back to back events haven't helped the wider audience that couldn't afford both events, because by the time single event tickets were available, all the main stand seating was sold. I've no axe to grind because I wasn't going to Cardiff anyway. The move from it's traditional June/July date into August and later, finished that for me. The Manchester dates would have suited me, but although my wife isn't a Speedway fan, she loved Cardiff & we went as a family for a lot of years. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be sell her the idea of being exposed to the elements in a temporary stand, queuing for a portaloo or a bus to & from the event, so it's not for me.

Absolutely... I wasn't disappointed and would definitely do the Prague GP again. Same as you, I got very cheap flights from my local airport and a good value hotel. I can't remember what year we went, but the flight had lots of speedway fans on it. I think Ryanair must have noticed the interest in that weekend and cottoned on that there was something going on, because the following year the flights for that weekend were silly money, so I didn't bother. Unfortunately, there are no flights from Bournemouth to Prague anymore.😕 At the end of the day, a holiday abroad including a GP, for the same price as 2 nights in a Premier Inn is a no brainer!

Just for clarity, are you referring to temporary bars at the fan zone when you say 15-20 minute walk? If you quoting 15-20minures for 0.7 miles to the fan zone in Cardiff, then it's over an hour to walk into Manchester for the city's bars and restaurants. I think the point being missed here is that it's not just that people want to get beered up. In Cardiff, the Speedway had a presence throughout the city on GP day. All the bars & restaurants full of fans from all over, street vendors selling merchandise on street corners etc. Speedway took over the City for the day and people enjoyed that celebration of Speedway with fellow fans. With the limited capacity and distance to the stadium, I can't see that being recreated in Manchester city centre. I've only been to one other GP venue other than Cardiff. We went to Prague, and yes, there were bars and restaurants galore, in a beautiful city, which we loved, but apart from one advertising poster & seeing Kelvin Tatum in an Irish bar, I would have had no idea that that Speedway was happening. At least the metro system made it easier to get to the stadium though. It lacked the atmosphere created in Cardiff and both myself & my wife (who isn't a fan, but always wanted to come to Cardiff) felt that it fell a bit flat compared to the Cardiff experience.

Listen sport... AceBelle is considerably richer than yow! 😄

After the way that people have been messed around with the Cardiff cancellation, this situation is very poor and is showing total contempt for the fans. I understand the logistical problems in arranging 2 GP's at relatively short notice and working out the costing etc. But a statement explaining the reasons for the delay would go a long way, rather than the wall of silence.

It's a bit away, as you said, but not a bad shout to save money on hotels. We've used Preston South Premier inn a few times for football in Lancashire as its always cheap, is close to the motorway junction & has ample free parking. The restaurant isn't great, but there's a big pub opposite which is better & does a good breakfast too. You have to take a 10 minute train ride from Bamber bridge to Preston in order to get the Manchester train though.

It's very poor isn't it? Especially with the other event in Manchester at the same time. People want to secure accommodation, but currently have no guarantee that they will get tickets 😕 They've already messed people about with the Cardiff cancellation. A bit of clarity on this one wouldn't hurt.

It's difficult keeping up with it all isn't it? I swapped from Sky go Virgin media, when it moved to BT sport. Virgin kept hiking prices, so I then swapped to BT (now EE) for my internet, phone & TV, with a sports package add on, including TNT & Discovery plus premium for £18 per month. The total package was £75. My contract lasts till October this year, so hopefully I'm good for this season at least.

Obviously, and I'm not disputing any of that, but that doesn't address the actual reasons for the declining crowd levels which made it unviable though, does it? I imagine that the cost of providing all the temporary seating required at the NSS will have a big impact on the viability of the event too.