Halifaxtiger

I think my problem is that you don't go to meetings so don't have a clue what the music is like, what the interviews are like or what the presentation is like. How can you come to an informed opinion about what goes on at speedway meetings if you are never there ? I'd say your view is ignorant, out of date and mostly inaccurate. It is nonsense to suggest that speedway's target audience are those of pensionable age. A concessionary rate applies right across the leisure industry - from stately homes to bowling alleys, from cinemas to sport. I think there is a genuine case to suggest that that should be reviewed but to imply that speedway does those of pensionable age a special favour because that is its targeted audience is rubbish. I am unaware of a speedway track that does not offer a concessionary rate to children and many offer family tickets at discounted rate. Isle of Wight, for example, allow under 16's in free and deliberately have attractions in addition to the speedway for them. Their focus - and they are most certainly not alone - is on children and families. Craig Cook's night at NSS on Wednesday was attended by those of all ages. We had a top class compere in Natalie Quirk, excellent recordings and funny, personable and honest (occasionally brutally so) answers from Cookie. It was a sell out (albeit that it was free). Further, I can remember Arthur Browning bringing the house down at Scunny a couple of years ago when being interviewed by Rob Godfrey (no slouch in being drolly funny himself). Some of the presentation (Birmingham springs to mind, and in an awful coincidence when I was at Leicester they had Peter York) is awful. Some of the music equally so (Plymouth certainly used to be terrible). But to suggest that they are all - or even the majority - like that is simply untrue. Belle Vue, in particular, have hit high standards for entertainment and professionalism. My view is that speedway does need to attract a younger audience but, at the same time, it needs to keep its current fan base very much on board. In my experience, most of those I know who are of pensionable age share that view and embrace change, not violently resist it. .

Can only be that. He was a major success last season.

I agree with all of your comments here Rob but the last paragraph does you little credit. Basically, what you are saying is that you won't go because of one person's attitude towards the older fan - a person that very rarely even attends meetings. Bluntly, that's a childish reaction because, as someone who does go, I can assure you that no older fans are 'despised and sneered at'. Quite the opposite, in fact. The view that older fans are all chair bound with woolly hats and flasks and hate any change or innovation is complete stereotypical nonsense and the overwhelming majority are absolutely nothing like that at all.

They weren't harsh, they were grossly insulting - and yes, they are untrue. They are also typical of someone who rarely actually attends speedway because you don't seem to realise just how much the sport needs its older clientele. As someone who does go and goes regularly across the country, without them speedway would be finished. For right or wrong, they represent a substantial part of speedway's attendances and alienating them without ensuring that new supporters are being attracted in their thousands is, unquestionably, more than stupid. Take my friend Kirky Lane. Belle Vue season ticket holder, attended at least 70 matches across Britain last season. Pensioner. I also don't believe that to attract new, younger fans you need necessarily get rid of the older ones. From experience, the older ones are just interested in the speedway. They don't care what music you play or what happens in the interval. They also wouldn't care if you billed it as an extreme sport. Indeed, many of them would embrace change because they know only too well that the sport needs new blood on the terraces. Once again, I will point to Isle of Wight. One of their main priorities is attracting youngsters and they put in an awful lot of time and effort in doing so. In the process, they do everything they can to retain their existing fan base and one of the reasons for their success is that they view speedway as a family sport. In other words, it is for all ages.

Totally agree and the importance of this cannot be overstated. In which business do the needs and requirements of paid employees come before paying customers ?

They get asked

I can only see this as a matter of money and absolutely nothing to do with the league set up. Indeed, if he was perfectly happy about not riding here he wouldn't have posted on facebook in the way that he has - he's trying to drum up interest from fans, sponsors etc to get them to back his case. While I am saddened to see a brilliant young rider - more so because he is British - not riding in our leagues, better that than give in to unreasonable demands. In this case, for me, British speedway promoters deserve a lot of credit.

Islanders only, Gem.

Its interesting to read your - very reasonable - comments here. I have mentioned Isle of Wight here (and many times before). They have a policy of allowing Islander newbies in for one meeting (that includes their family) for free by taking their names and putting them on the gate. At the end of the match, they are asked to give feedback to the promotion. No cards are given out, but announcer Rob Dyer does give a brief but informative outline of the sport before the racing starts. The racing is decent. There are autograph sessions before every meeting, and riders are usually in the bar afterwards. One member of the promotion tours the crowd during the meeting, and does so every week. Last season, I saw away fans invited on to the centre green. That is part of the reason why Isle of Wight speedway is, in my view, a blueprint or at least an example as to how speedway tracks should operate. The cost of all that ? Pretty much nothing. If a fan isn't going anyway and you let him in free, you haven't lost a penny. Feedback, centre green and pits visits are just a matter of a little time and effort.

Where admission is concerned, I don't think its a matter of how much you pay but whether you get value for money that is important. As an example, I paid £17 to watch the Aces-Wolves Premiership fixture last season and it convinced to go to the NSS even more, because it was just brilliant. Everything went right that night. On the other hand, in quite possibly the majority of cases I probably didn't get my moneys worth. I don't think that in a comparison with other sports speedway is that expensive. Two adults and two children under 11 at Belle Vue is £34. At Isle of Wight, £24. Its rare that a family ticket will set you back £50. Halifax RLFC would be £44. Halifax Town £46. Leeds United £76 (at the cheapest, it could be over £100). Huddersfield Town £90. To go a bit further, Huddersfield Odeon is £31.50. You are right, though, that as its a matter of attempting to get people to go in the first place it makes things much more difficult even if prices are less. My own view is that nothing beats word of mouth - if someone is continually banging on how good it is, you are more likely to try it.

Treating a speedway fan not as a speedway fan but as a valued paying customer. The difference is that with the former you can get away with a sub standard product, with the latter you can't. With the massive amount of competition in the leisure industry and the difficulty of attracting and retaining support it has to be the case that a paying customer is looked upon as the life blood that he actually is, not a mug to be taken for granted. We are not in the 1950's or 1970's any more. We have all been there. Rubbish tracks prepared without care or for the wants of riders. Filthy, uncared for facilities. Overpriced, dreadful food and a bar on taking your own in. Appalling customer care - aggressive, contemptuous and even abusive responses to legitimate criticism or questions from promoters, team managers and club press officers. Shambolic organisation, leading to ridiculous delays. A total lack of imagination regarding the entire meeting, because its not just about speedway. I believe all of that can be addressed at little cost - in fact I know it can, because Isle of Wight have done it.

39 points, apparently

Kelly Armstrong has posted on Facebook that Jon won't be at Mildenhall because he doesn't fit. Points limit decided, then.

Very pleased to see Campton back. Fair improvement in his average and looked even better at the end of the season. Would have been extremely surprised if he had not been in the plans. Will also be very surprised if Bickley and Proctor aren't two of the others.

Really ? PL average for Scunthorpe 2016 5.42 I'm not a fan. At Scunny he was brilliant if he gated, not interested if he didn't.

Problem is the fact that he moved in in the knowledge that the stadium was there cuts no ice with the law, as Mildenhall found out. Bloody stupid but that's how it is.

Yes. Never saw him pass anyone though http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/thread/14825/buxton-kent-nl-02-2015

Because I don't doubt that your interest in the prosperity and continuing existence of Cradley Heathens greatly exceeds that of that of your local supermarket. That means that you should be concerned if your club is living way beyond its means (and rider pay is probably the largest expense that any club has). Some almost certainly do and, in a number of cases, we are talking 5 figure sums every year. To answer your question, in purely financial terms they are less a business and more a personal hobby, with the management having the financial clout to meet the losses.

Completely agree and its not that he scores points, but how he does it. I won't forget seeing him ride Buxton a couple of seasons ago for Kent. Never seen anyone else tackle it like he did.

Probably because you and I contribute towards their earnings and we have a serious interest in the financial viability of their employers. Where the NL is concerned, I think that is because it is generally in better financial shape than the other leagues. To my knowledge, the only club struggling badly finance wise last season was Plymouth but even they didn't get near some of the losses made in the top two divisions.

Not bitter at all, just realistic. Speedway (with the exception of the top boys) is not and never has been a full time occupation even during the season. One of speedway's most intractable yet vitally important questions is how to make some see that. Attendances and income at NL dictate that it must largely self funded, although Dean has said in the past that even at that level you can at least breakeven if you do everything yourself. He's a former speedway rider who competed at NL level for many years. That means he knows about the income and expenditure. For that reason alone, he's worth listening to.

I think we need Jayne Moss to state the case clearly again. If memory serves me correctly, she preferred a situation where NL clubs could not have assets which suggests its nowhere near as simple as you are putting it nor is it the case that NL clubs are as hard done by as you imply. Actually NL clubs receive a training fee (albeit not much) when the rider signs for a higher club and they pay no loan fees for riders who are assets of other teams (Josh Bailey & Richard Knight spring to mind). The amount they pay the BSPA is definitely substantially less and a referee does exactly the same job at whatever meeting he attends, so why should some be charged more than others ? I think it was one ex Championship promoter who said that some NL clubs want all the benefits of being in the Premiership and Championship but don't want to pay for it. This is particularly relevant taking into account that NL clubs are in general in better financial shape than those in the top two divisions. In addition, to suggest that NL clubs receive no reward for training young riders is nonsense. The financial gain from other clubs maybe minimal, but clearly if you put time and effort (the money commitment is almost non existent, indeed Isle of Wight make money from their training school) into giving youngsters a chance it means they are more likely to stay with your club, hugely benefitting the team in the short term. As an example, Mildenhall will have Kemp, Bebee, Jenkins and Marson riding for them this season. All have been given opportunities by the Fen Tigers and repaid the clubs loyalty by joining them at the start of their NL careers. Every single Mildenhall fan I know, not surprisingly, can't wait for the season to start. Isn't the on - and indeed off - track success of an NL club enough for them to have a strong youth and training policy ?

Its definitely the case that the NL clubs pay significantly less in fees than the top two leagues and one of the reasons for that is they cannot sign assets. I know Jayne Moss put a very good post on here regarding NL clubs owning assets and its nowhere near as clear cut as it seems.

You could argue the same about the top leagues. I wonder if Craig Cook is paid the same amount per point as Jack Smith or whether Zach Wajtknecht got the same as Jason Doyle. In my experience, the number of points that a rider can score has little to do with the amount he gets per point.

I have done over 700 meetings at every track in the UK in the last 12 or so seasons and I haven't been to many where its been as blatant as that. In addition, don't we all try to avoid a potential rain off ? I know I do. I don't mind a meeting reaching heat 10 and being called off even if the conditions were the same at heat 7, and there is a good reason for that. One NL promoter told me that a rain off had cost him £4,000 and that two more like it would have closed the track. I was chatting with him at the start of one meeting with no rain predicted and a few spots came down (possibly signalling some heavy stuff) and the look on his face was scary. Getting to heat 10 - even if it is a bit fixed - avoids that and this isn't penny pinching (like full price insert programmes) this is the very future of the track. Where I do agree, though, is when meetings are abandoned to suit one side or the other, the infamous Belle Vue-Poole EL Semi Final the other year being the prime example. That is just not on.