Halifaxtiger

Must admit I have never had a problem getting there (I, too, come from the North and have the benefit of a shortcut (thanks again E I Addio)). The problem has always been those coming through the tunnel. I think its the way forward but for one thing : we would need about 40 new riders of PL/upper NL standard.

Dead right. The problem with paying out more than you can afford is not exclusive to the EL. Very surprised at this one......but delighted that there will be speedway at one of my favourite tracks next season.

Its clear that Eastbourne did not say anything and I retract my previous statements. I suspect my informant jumped to an all too obvious conclusion and its also clear that he was far from the only one. Lets give Eastbourne a bit of credit, then. Apparently they had an 'inkling' that the Brummies team was illegal but would have gone ahead anyway. To me, that makes them far from the win at all costs club they have been made out to be on occasion. Seen him ride several times this season and was always impressed. Sunday night, though, was by far the best of the lot. You have got be kidding. Which part of that rule isn't clear ? Even if it has been broken 5 times - and no-one can say when - breaking it for a 6th time still isn't right and the referee was correct to enforce it, and a precedent is when there is a lack of clarity exists -which it doesn't here. The pity is enforcing it came far too late.

Not at all. I got told that before the riders even went out on parade. Clearly, Graham Drury doesn't know it either : 'So with that in mind, to then be approached just 30 minutes before the scheduled start time and told that James Shanes wouldn’t be allowed to ride in the meeting due to Eastbourne’s objection absolutely astonished me'. ​It would surprise me that someone would be so blatantly untruthful (because unless Drury didn't know it wasn't Eastbourne - which would be astonishing - either he or Connor Dugard most certainly is), but several Eastbourne supporters were most unhappy that Shanes could not ride and blamed their promotion. Furthermore, I am struggling to think of an occasion when an independent 'power that be' has intervened in a team line up so late, especially when a rule has apparently been broken several times during the season. I'll await a statement from Drury in response to Dugard's remarks ( I doubt I'll get one, because that passes the blame to the person actually responsible). Its in the rulebook and is crystal clear : 19.13.3 A rider may ride as a Guest (in an Official Meeting) at a Track only once in an 8-day period unless he is either replacing the Home Teams #1. Shanes could not ride. The problem is they never are because no-one is ever found to be responsible. In this case its 'powers that be' apparently, whoever they maybe. I think there is case for finger pointing for the sake of those who attended and the good name of the sport. Until we do so, farces like this, bent decisions and rule breaking will continue.

It isn't, but they clearly knew all about it when the teams were in the pits because I am told they protested at that time. Why wait so late ? There's no doubt in my mind Eastbourne were desperate to win so pulled this stunt as late as they possibly could. Pretty pathetic and a cheap shot leading to a hollow victory if you ask me. However, I agree that it is a pretty dreadful mistake by Drury and, indeed, the referee. Anyone from Birmingham blaming Eastbourne should certainly point fingers closer to home.

Fair point. Not even having a preview on the website is very poor show.

He had his own column in Speedy Star for many years with a style all of his own ' Belle Vue's Mort who is rarely outfought' was one that I remember from the 80's. He was also a successful speedway promoter at West Ham and Eastbourne, and at the time can only have been in his 20's or early 30's. I am not as much of a knocker of Messrs Pearson & Tatum as some, but they aren't a patch on this chap. Fitting tribute from Barry Hearn that applies just as much to speedway : 'Dave was one of the pioneers of televised darts and his dulcet tones entertained us for over 30 years. He gave us so many great memories with eloquence and style behind the microphone. He is now reunited with his old sparring partner Sid Waddell, and they can share a drink together again tonight.'

If truth were told, I don't think they earn 'mega bucks' or indeed get paid what they deserve. However, what you say is right - there simply has to be an understanding on the part of riders that clubs cannot afford the present pay rates.

I'll be surprised if Jenkins doesn't stay at Mildenhall. I saw him during the Ben Meeting at King's Lynn in March and thought he was the real deal so its little wonder that he's just about the hottest prospect in the NL. Armstrong Bowtell Coles Jack Smith Mountain Hampshire Jenkins. That fits under 40 points. Armstrong - superb leader and captain, never heard a bad word about him and he's had some mechanical issues this season so could get better next. Bowtell - disappointing in 2016, definitely worth a shot on that average as he's a much better rider than that. Coles - started poor but rocketed forwards after a public mouthful from Kevin Jolly. Two points up for the second half of the season, mad to get rid of him. Smith - little chance of him moving but he's way, way better than a 6.00 Mountain - little bit of a gamble following awful injury but Mildenhall's most consistent rider in 2016 and has the potential to be among the best in the league Hampshire/Jenkins - two fantastic young reserves. Baseby, Widman, Dugard & Cupitt to comeback. Good choice in Hopwood - loves the Island and they love him. Leaves about 14 for two others. Cockle might well be one but I'm not a fan because if he doesn't gate he's not interested. Stoneman, on a 7.00, is a major gamble.

1975 Wimbledon aged 10 1982-6 Wimbledon 1987-1990 Belle Vue 2004- date. Just over 700 meetings in that time.

A little play off ? http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11689/10295845/the-price-of-championship-play-off-promotion-the-richest-game-in-football According to this article, Sheffield Wednesday missed out on £170m when they lost to Hull last season. £170m. Not for nothing do they describe the Championship play off final as the 'richest game in football'. Ok, so they don't decide on the league that day but winning and losing in the Championship play off competition is probably more important. As Scotchopper points out, many other sports operate the play offs - speedway is anything but alone. They are there for one reason and one reason alone - the attendances they pull in. If they didn't make a substantial difference in financial terms, we simply wouldn't have them. 'BIGGEST CROWD HERE APART FROM THE PL PAIRS MEETINGS FOR YEARS'. Taken from the speedway updates site referring to the PL play off final tonight. Ask Debbie whether that makes a difference or not if you get the chance. That's precisely the point. The guest system might be flawed, but what's the alternative ? Very easy to come on here and whine about it but not one single credible (or even incredible) solution proposed. Lets see if we can get an answer : What were Sheffield supposed to do ?

So did I. In fact I wish I had gone more often.

Is he ? In truth, I only know that the riders haven't been paid (and I got that from a riders sponsor). Other than that, I pretty much don't know anything about what's going on other than what I have read on here. The rumours are widespread and seem to be coming from several sources (I heard it first at Plymouth, of all places) so there's every chance they have some basis.

Football supporters ? Ask them about what happens in the Championship and Leagues 1 & 2 at the end of the season at Wembley. That, they would loudly say, is different - which it is, just. But it can still mean that a team that finishes third in the Championship is denied entry to the Premier League (and that loss is indescribable) and a team that finishes sixth goes up. I doubt if a Rugby League supporter would laugh because they have exactly the same thing.

I hope I am not too insulting when I say yes, you are - although it would perhaps be more accurate to say that you don't like the changes that have taken place in the sport. One thing is certain - you're far from alone. I believe those changes are necessary because of the drop in attendances. I don't believe they caused that drop, although you will see fans saying that they are walking away because of guests, points limits and tactical changes - completely ignoring the point, of course, that all have been in existence in the sport for half a century or more. People disdain the TR rule, but it affects scores less than the old TS and also costs a huge amount less. Most riders don't get paid for TR, yet they would for a TS because it would be an extra ride. Speedway simply can't afford that. There's no doubt that the play offs are a major financial success. Speedway simply can't turn down the major revenue they make, and in doing so they are simply copying other sports like Rugby League, Ice Hockey and even Football. The idea of these changes is too make things more exciting and generate funds for the sport and personally I think they have succeeded. While I have no doubt you were gutted at the EL final result, there is a possibility (I should say I have little idea what is going on)that the money Belle Vue made that night might save the club. In the end, it seems to me to be a matter of accepting that the wishes of individuals must fall second to the needs of the sport.

I have no doubt Belle Vue fans are gutted. To turn your argument round, I wonder what Wolverhampton fans would have preferred, winning the league after a superb meeting or finishing second. We have three EL clubs with reported or rumoured money problems. Up until last week, one PL club had closed, one was for sale and one was on the brink. Its fair to suggest that the sport is in desperate financial straits which may yet result in major changes over the winter. No-one would doubt that the play offs represent a major financial windfall as a result of increased attendances but they also have the effect of substantially reducing the number of dead rubbers. More money, less losses. Yet you (and others) choose to effectively reject that opportunity simply because it is a different system - one that, as has been said, has produced some superb speedway meetings. As to whether a club will go to the wall without play off money, its your turn to ask a Belle Vue. I have no knowledge of their money problems (although I am aware they haven't been paying riders) but I do know that the play off final drew a 4,000 crowd with probable receipts of about £100k. Do you think that gives them a better chance of coming to the tapes in 2017 or not ?

No I'm not. I said Belle Vue got £100k that night in receipts. What about corporate packages, grandstand tickets (£25, I think), car parking. Figures aside, the simple fact is Belle Vue made a lot of money that night. If they didn't when the stadium was packed, it doesn't bear thinking about how much they lost all season. Sheffield's gates haven't been what they should, probably because the track is so poor. But if they are breaking even with a gate of 1,000, this season's losses must be something that can't be contemplated.

I don't think that's true, for simple reason that all league matches are meaningful. Indeed, the play offs mean that we are left with substantially less dead rubbers at the end of the season - dead rubbers whose attendances are often disastrous.

Then you really missed out. The EL final at Belle Vue was just brilliant - read the thoughts of anyone that was there. Crowds most certainly weren't down for the play off meetings themselves - I suspect the crowd at Belle Vue was quite possibly double the best they had for the rest of the season. What you - and many others - can't seem to grasp is that speedway simply isn't in the position to turn down the huge proceeds that the play offs create. Better to have the play offs and some of clubs staying in the black than not have them and some teams going to the wall.

Do I ? There were a reported 4,000 at Belle Vue that night. At an average £20 per ticket, that's £80k. Plus the reported £10k TV money, plus the sale of programmes, food and drink. Makes about £100k to me. One thing that no-one will argue about the play offs is that attendances increase. For a one off final, I'll be surprised if Sheffield's normal gate doesn't at least double.

I suspect that its because you are a fan of 50 years that you simply can't grasp why speedway has the play offs and why every speedway fan has to put their personal preferences aside and accept that they are not just important, but vital. First of all, read the EL Grand Final thread. Almost all say that it was everything good about speedway - a huge crowd, cracking racing and everything hanging on the result. Then double that for Glasgow v Sheffield, as that was a last heat decider. Small wonder my old mate Tigerite - a Tigers fan who has missed a handful of meetings home and away in years - says that the Newcastle & Glasgow matches are amongst the best he has ever seen. Speaking personally, in the 700 or so meetings I have seen since 2004 one of the best was most definitely the Mildenhall/Scunthorpe NL final a few years ago, when everything hung on the last bend of the last race - as the riders went over the line, we still didn't know who had won. That crowd at Belle Vue was there because it was a one off final, with all the excitement that that entails. Most important of all, I'd say the proceeds from that meeting were pushing £100k and that the total proceeds for the EL play off meetings were probably well over £300k. Is speedway in a position to turn that sort of money down? Given Belle Vue's reported financial problems, I'd ask them first before you answer. As to the use of guests, precisely what are Sheffield supposed to do when Stead, Garrity & Berge are all injured ? Put out three NL(guest) riders ? Turn up with just 4 and have treble rider replacement ? Forfeit the tie through no fault of their own ? Guests are part of speedway and have been for 50 years or more. They aren't brilliant by any means, but they are better than any alternative. If Sheffield do win (can't see it myself, but then I couldn't against Newcastle or Glasgow either) you (and one or two others) can go in a corner and cry. Make no mistake though, in Sheffield you'll be pretty much on your own because every single Sheffield fan I know - Sunglasses Dave, Tigerite, Big Kev, Spinny, Spinny Junior, Squall - will be going absolutely nuts. Increase the losses? Are you serious ? I bet Damien Bates is rubbing his hands at the thought of a PL Grand Final place. As I have indicated Belle Vue probably got £100k from the EL Grand Final. Given their much rumoured financial problems, it doesn't bear thinking about where they would be if the play offs did not exist.

Based upon my (very limited) visits to Glasgow, I completely agree. The number of times I saw it a few weeks ago was ridiculous and, what's worse, it made absolutely no difference because the track was still rubbish. At Workington the night before, the track was graded and watered after heats 4,7, 11 & 14 and the racing was top draw. Do it right in the first place and you don't need to constantly watch tractor racing. Even if it was nothing to do with the result (which may or may not be true) people want to watch the bikes on the track, not the tractors. Continual grading is (or certainly should be) absolutely unnecessary and just annoys everyone.

That, to me, is a very real possibility. I think its acknowledged that the EL needs 8 teams at least to be both credible and to retain the Sky contract. Currently, there are issues at Leicester (which have been made public) and Coventry and Belle Vue (which have not). That's almost half the league. If just one of them drop down (or out) a replacement will be needed. I don't know about Glasgow but I have been told that both Rye House and Sheffield have refused to go up. Given that Plymouth have closed (for the moment, hopefully) Berwick are up for sale and Workington are on the brink, it may well be that the top flight of British Speedway next season will be of PL standard with an enlarged NL below it.

I think what you say is true but here I think SCB is right. This is anything but just a rumour on the BSF. In actual fact its widespread and its contents are serious and disturbing. Setting the record straight - on this occasion - would be the best course.

Based upon live meetings I have seen this season : Best track : Scunthorpe Best promotion : Isle of Wight Best raceday (racing, presentation, no delay) Scunthorpe Best food : Berwick Best programme : Newcastle/Sheffield Best presentation: Mildenhall/Scunthorpe/Workington Best fans : Plymouth/Sheffield/Ipswich Best 5 meetings : Scunthorpe v Edinburgh (PL) Lakeside v Poole (ELA) Belle Vue v Wolverhampton (ELGF) Scunthorpe v Ipswich (PL) Workington v Ipswich (PL) Best team performance : Plymouth (PL Fours) Lakeside (v Poole ELA) Best individual performance : Dan Bewley (Belle Vue) v Mildenhall NL Best individual ride : Jack Holder (Plymouth) PL Fours Josh Auty (Scunthorpe) v Ipswich PL Dan Bewley (Edinburgh) v Newcastle PL Most improved rider : Danyon Hume (Birmingham)David Bellago (Redcar) Rohan Tungate(Somerset) Connor Coles (Mildenhall) Best novice : Dan Bewley (Belle Vue) Jordan Jenkins (Mildenhall)