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Everything posted by Humphrey Appleby
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Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year
Humphrey Appleby replied to Grand Central's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
Not a console version admittedly, but there is actually a speedway game for the PC - apparently officially licensed by the SGP - and I think iOS and Android versions have been announced. I don't think speedway really lends itself to a good console game though, even taking into account the limited market. -
British Speedway Promoters Meeting
Humphrey Appleby replied to dantodan's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
In fact, you can do more damage by attracting new fans and then serving up rubbish. This is in fact speedway's problem - you get someone to turn up to stand around in a dingy stadium with all the indeterminable delays between heats, with presentation from the 1970s. How many ever come back, and what's more, what do they tell their friends? I actually got into speedway because there was very good coverage in the local paper that I read as I was doing a paper round, so by the time I actually went to a meeting I already knew a fair bit about the sport. I think that's the sort of approach that's needed, although updated for the 21st century using social media and the like. -
British Speedway Promoters Meeting
Humphrey Appleby replied to dantodan's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
Yes, but Arsenal are one of the biggest football clubs in the world and get immense media coverage as a result. Speedway is not in any way comparable and needs to generate its own publicity. I accept the lack of resources in speedway for this sort of thing, but anyone who suggests that websites and social media don't generate awareness is living with their head in the sand. To give you an example, as a general rule I simply will no longer give my custom to businesses that have no online presence or don't communicate electronically. -
Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year
Humphrey Appleby replied to Grand Central's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
Not really. The Australians have won it seemingly forever, and the winner is about as much a foregone conclusion as you can get in any sport. -
Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year
Humphrey Appleby replied to Grand Central's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
I think you could say the same about any physical professional sport. I'd agree there's more risk of death and paralysis in speedway than tennis, but I'm not sure there's much more risk of injury per se. Speedway is fairly dangerous, but I think there are other sports like 3-day eventing, powerboating, downhill skiing and possibly even American football, rugby and certain forms of sailing that more dangerous. Tennis players are forced to withdraw from tournaments and even retire all the time because of injury, and in fact many simply 'burn out' from the demands of the professional circuit. Bear in mind also, that speedway riders can still compete with fairly serious injuries that other sportspeople simply can't. There are probably a roughly equivalent number of professional speedway riders and tennis professionals on the global circuit (although there's probably a bigger semi-pro circuit in tennis), so injury rates should be comparable on a like-for-like basis. As I said, when you start thinking about the risks then you're on your way to being finished in the sport. Hans Nielsen was never quite the same rider after Erik Gundersen was injured, and although he was a very safe rider who hardly ever got injured in his career, I suspect the consequences may well have started playing on his mind. It's unfortunately a mental thing which you can't always control, but maybe the best speedway riders are the ones who can best compartmentalise the risk factor, and keep doing it year-after-year even after they've had injuries. I don't think this is something unique to speedway though. I doubt many of us could cope with the demands of playing on the professional tennis circuit, even if we could knock a ball over the net to a reasonable standard. I would agree that riding speedway in multiple countries requires a high degree of organisation which is largely the responsibility of the riders (unlike some other sports where clubs chaperone their players around), and the hectic nature of the schedule means there's less time to recover from injuries that get incurred, but fact that it's possible to ride 4 meetings in 4 days shows the levels of physical exertion can't be as high as for football or rugby etc... -
British Speedway Promoters Meeting
Humphrey Appleby replied to dantodan's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
Well I suppose that salary looks reasonable for your age, but I doubt the company can be pulling up many trees marketing wise. If it is, then you're being under-paid regardless of age. To give you an example, I know people who specialise in developing an online presences for 'traditional' organisations and they'd be on more twice that money. In one case where the introduction of an online retail presence tripled turnover, they were paid more than 25K as a bonus alone, and they thought themselves a bit hard done-by with that. I wouldn't disagree that any business that doesn't engage with the Internet is missing out, and quite possibly is ultimately doomed, but it's not a guaranteed route to success. Now that just about everyone is online, you still need to have a decent product otherwise you'll get found out quite quickly and be crucified by the self-same medium. It's a completely different kettle of fish to market a new product or service with little legacy or overheads, and a traditional product with an established (and decaying) infrastructure, ageing customer base, and high overheads in comparison to its turnover. Even more so with a product that relies heavily on part-time and volunteer effort. Unfortunately, speedway cannot control or change all the aspects of its production, and that limits what can be achieved. I'd completely agree that speedway's official online presence is quite poor (although there are some decent fan efforts), and its proprietors still seem to be wedded to controlling the flow of information through anodyne press releases and the printed journal of record. That they've also (apparently) delegated the commercial rights to a company which seems to have done little with them, also says a lot about the type of people involved with running the sport, although I'd accept some are well-meaning in their desire to keep the sport going. Nevertheless, I think even the best marketeers would struggle to promote an under-capitalised sport taking place in dingy rented stadia in often the worst parts of town. The best equivalents I can think of are the rejuvenation of rugby league and cricket, but in the case of the former it was heavily backed by the Murdoch empire who saw it as the cornerstone of their global sporting coverage. In the case of the latter, there was already a lot of interest in the sport with the upper middle-middle classes, so it was more a case of making it accessible. Most cricket grounds were also never unpleasant places to visit, especially from the perspective of corporate sponsors, so they've been able to leverage that by branching out into the hotel and conference businesses as well. This simply couldn't happen with speedway in its current state. Yes, but what are they going to sell? The likes of rugby tops can be worn as casual wear, but I wouldn't be seen dead wearing a team Wulfsport jacket around town. Speedway unfortunately doesn't lend itself well to wider merchandising, and that's part of its problem -
British Speedway Promoters Meeting
Humphrey Appleby replied to dantodan's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
I hope that's not your only job because otherwise it's a poor salary for a webmaster, especially in a commercial marketing environment. -
If you want to do something in Russia, it's always important to have the right 'fixer' otherwise things mysteriously go missing or get held up. If the Russians want you there though, then it's amazing how all the red tape vanishes - this is from direct experience of organising things there. I don't think I said it was, but perhaps others think otherwise which is why SEC has popped-up and started to challenge the perceived wisdoms. Russia is one of the few countries with a professional league and seemingly decent support, so is an obvious omission from the SGP. Yes I fully appreciate that organising stuff in Russia is a pain in the neck, but SEC appear to have managed it so clearly it can be achieved, whereas the SGP is prepared to go to what looks like a banger racing circuit with buildings that look to be left over from a Soviet gulag Odd choice considering there's a perfectly decent oval stadium in Riga that could be upgraded with some temporary stands. If venues are indeed clamouring to stage a GP, it seems odd to stage a GP in some backwater (even in Italian speedway terms) with minimal attendance and local financial support. Is it to curry favour with Armando Castagna who's on the CCP, because it's otherwise hard to think of any rational reason to have an Italian GP nowadays (although I appreciate the sport was once bigger there).
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In the UK it would be called a permit fee. In the case of the MSA (4-wheeled motor sport) it's supposed to cover the cost of sending the official(s) and provides public liability insurance, but there are different fees depending on the grade of the event. Championship permits are also needed if several events form part of a wider series, which again are supposed to cover scrutiny of the regulations and any appeals that are made against them. Not quite sure what you get from the FIM in return for the inscription fee, but it's probably along similar lines. The staging fee (or whatever the name it actually goes by) is completely different and is charged by the series organisers to the host tracks for the right to stage a GP. Presumably this varies from track-to-track, but the asking price was rumoured to be between GBP 50 and 100K a few years ago. However, some disgruntled councillors in Gorzow leaked their confidential agreement with BSI which suggested they'd paid more than GBP 300K for the privilege of staging their GP. It's hard to imagine that Terenzano would have been coughing-up anything like that sort of money, but BSI may be obliged to stage a certain number of GPs for television purposes so need to take a hit on the staging fees to find enough willing hosts to pad out the series. To me, the different inscription fees charged by the FIM and FIM Europe can't really be the main issue as to why the SGP hasn't gone to Russia. If a track can pull 30,000 fans then we're talking about maybe 50p (or maybe EUR 0.50) on the admission price.
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Actually I haven't as I don't think there was iPad support initially (I think you said it was due at the end of November), but if it's available now then I'm happy to take out a subscription as I promised. We're not talking about the inscription fee which will be set by the FIM, but the staging fees paid to BSI. As we know from Gorzow spilling the beans, they can be substantial.
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How much could the Italians have been paying for a GP was played out in front of a virtually empty house? Could say the same about speedway in every country where there's a GP. Only in Poland could speedway even be considered a mainstream sport, but the reality is it's way behind football and probably even basketball in popularity there.
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Yes, but Vladivostok is an extreme example. I think most of the speedway tracks in Russia are in the Urals area; probably all within 400-500 miles of each other which isn't a lot different to the distance between Plymouth and Edinburgh. Perhaps the asking price is considered too high...? After all, SEC seem to manage to stage a round in Russia which has seemingly been beyond the SGP for a number of years.
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Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year
Humphrey Appleby replied to Grand Central's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
But Murray may potentially play 4 matches in 4 days, and those matches will be 2-3 hours plus. The average amount of time spent riding in a speedway meeting is 5-6 minutes, even if those 5-6 minutes will be all-out exertion. I didn't suggest speedway wasn't dangerous, but my point was that riders must compartmentalise that danger. If they thought about the consequences each time they went out, they wouldn't do it. In fact, I do a bit of competitive karting and whilst it's undoubtedly much safer than speedway, there's probably someone killed every few years which isn't far off the death rate in speedway. If I thought about the danger every time I went out, I simply wouldn't be able to race properly, but I've enough confidence in my equipment and ability to feel I can minimise the risk. I don't put it in the same league as speedway, but I've little doubt the same thought processes apply. I think it unlikely that you'd have 40+ year old champions in tennis, whereas Greg Hancock has recently proved it can be done in speedway. The danger may be higher in speedway, but I think top-flight tennis requires a higher level of physicality. -
As far as I know there's a mixture of national and regional channels. Can imagine that interest in speedway is fairly regional in Russia, but the same could be said for many speedway countries. Would have thought Australia is similar in terms of vast distances between some tracks, but the SGP is still shown there, right? If speedway is shown in China and the UAE that have zero tracks and no tradition of the sport whatsoever, it's a bit odd that it's not even on Eurosport Russia or some late night channel.
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British Speedway Promoters Meeting
Humphrey Appleby replied to dantodan's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
Some local papers have produced decent coverage of speedway, but like speedway they're dying a slow death and I think have diminishing resources to really do anything much these days. I also suspect the readership of local papers is somewhat ageing, so I'm not sure they're the best way to gain more exposure for the sport. -
Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year
Humphrey Appleby replied to Grand Central's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
I don't think speedway really has anything in common with other motorcycle sports. There's virtually no crossover competitor-wise, and I doubt there's much fan crossover either. -
Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year
Humphrey Appleby replied to Grand Central's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
Some would claim that huntin', shootin' and fishin' are the only true sports... -
Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year
Humphrey Appleby replied to Grand Central's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
Well I'd strongly disagree that cricket is an elitist sport, and never has been. Working men have always played with the local squires on the village green and at county level, even if they were classified as 'gentlemen' and 'players' with separate changing rooms in the past. Cricket is followed by all sorts, and frankly I don't think it actually gets enough coverage in relation to its popularity because the media can no longer afford to send journalists to cover matches for days at a time. Rugby (Union) is also pretty widely played around the country by all sorts, and whilst the top-level was traditionally dominated by ex-public schoolboys because of its 'amateur' nature, I'm not sure it's so much the case these days. If it is, it's because most people get introduced to rugby at school (unlike football which kids seem to play naturally) and it still tends to be the former grammar schools where it's predominantly played. I think the coverage of Rugby Union is about right on balance. By contrast, Rugby League has most definitely never been a toffs' sport and that still got a lot of coverage on the BBC in the 1980s if I recall. It's not on there now because it sold itself to Murdoch for a vast largesse, and has been heavily marketed (still with limited success) ever since. Admittedly the BBC seemed intent on confirming every southerner's prejudices about flat caps and whippets through their employment of Eddie Waring and latterly Ray French, but the sport certainly got disproportionate coverage in relation to its popularity. The fact that speedway only ever found itself in the company of joke sports like wrestling and canal vaulting on ITV probably says more about the efforts of the speedway authorities than anything else. -
Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year
Humphrey Appleby replied to Grand Central's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
It may well come down to how much the BBC has to pay for the rights to various sports, how much time it needs to devote to properly cover a particular sport, or when it needs to fill air time. I think there is a fair amount of interest in competitive sailing in Britain, although I'd agree the Americas Cup itself is generally not of much interest because British teams hardly ever take part. However, the BBC may have got the rights cheaply as a result, and it's a one-off event. Triathlon takes place in the daytime and its events probably nicely interleave with the requirements of Saturday/Sunday daytime viewing. If not, it isn't so widely reported on that it needs to actually be shown live as most people won't be aware when any given event happens. The rights are probably also cheap. By contrast, Speedway GPs are run on Saturday evenings during prime time television when Strictly and Casualty are on. There's just no way that a minority sport is going to displace those sorts of shows on a regular basis, and maybe the 1-2 million per year that IMG/BSI expect for the territorial rights is simply more than they're willing to pay for a minority sport. -
Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year
Humphrey Appleby replied to Grand Central's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
I personally find sailing duller than ditchwater to watch, but why should 'posh' sports not get covered? We're subjected to an unremitting diet of football most of the time, and I don't think it unreasonable that other sports, especially traditional ones, get a look-in occasionally. The BBC in particular should have a duty to cover minority sports as it's a public-funded broadcaster that shouldn't be subject to the same populist pressures. It's certainly true that the BBC seems to have been indifferent about speedway for long time, but I hardly think that pulling sailing off television is going to miraculously change their policy in this respect. And I suspect speedway must take a lot of responsibility for not getting itself any sort of visibility that would force the BBC's hand. Triathlon is a sport that arguably didn't exist 30 years ago, yet is now regularly covered by the BBC. Can a sport that basically originated from ironman contests between beach bums be considered posh? -
British Speedway Promoters Meeting
Humphrey Appleby replied to dantodan's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
Yes, but speedway promotions in the main have little control of over the quality of their stadiums or a number of other external factors that contribute to a poor product. Yes, if the sport was doing well then they could either own their own stadiums or demand improvements, but the reality is that most stadiums are on the margins of disappearing under housing anyway. Speedway is not especially expensive in comparison to mainstream sports, but it is too expensive for what it is. It's failed to control rider wages relative to its income, which in turn has meant skimping on things like number of heats and track preparation, and to some extent on improving spectator facilities (although that also comes back to not owning the stadiums). So the spiral of decline has got worse-and-worse and it's difficult to see how it can now dig itself out of the hole. The one thing that is for certain is that you can't charge any more for the current product, and it probably needs to be substantially less. Throwing money that the sport doesn't have at so-called star riders who aren't really interested in riding for their teams, is also a surefire route to bankruptcy. They don't attract enough fans to justify their wages, and haven't for the past 20 years or more - I can't believe that anyone still believes otherwise. The only way the sport has any chance of survival is to basically go back to grassroots, bring in cheaper but committed riders and maybe a longer meeting format, and market itself as a cheap form of entertainment. Yes, it needs to engage with new forms of media etc. etc.., but I think the chances of the sport gaining masses of new fans is virtually nil. It's not like marketing a new energy drink, but tapping into people who used to go and who might drag their friends and family along if it were affordable and moderately entertaining again. Even if you do all this, the sport might still be doomed anyway, but it may be doomed later rather than sooner. PS - beware of anyone who proclaims they're an expert on anything... -
Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year
Humphrey Appleby replied to Grand Central's topic in Speedway News and Discussions
Maybe it was all the shouting... Ermm.. but how many of those would have ridden a speedway bike? The only similarities between road bikes and speedway bikes are two wheels and a engine.