BL65
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Posts posted by BL65
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That's interesting thank you, I'm hoping Mr Buck passes this by as I'm sure he struggled to get any evidence. I'm sure I recall discussing the 1929 fiasco with him, but never new of 1930's match.
The result is shown on the Speedway Researcher website at
http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/docs/1930/slresults.pdf
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Even more confusing is there was evidence of two speedway teams running at the same time in Birmingham. One Hall Green and one at Perry Barr, but no evidence that they both contested a local derby together.
On May 7th 1930 Birmingham (Perry Barr) hosted Hall Green in a Southern League meeting. The result was a win for the visitors by 36 points to 18. Perry Barr withdrew from the league after 4 matches. In 1929 both teams had competed in the Southern League but Hall Green withdrew from the competition after 7 matches, before the local derbies were staged.
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Off the top of my head I reckon the only rider who appeared in the SAL and who went on to appear in the World Final was Brian Brett-who retired much too early. Is this correct and if so does Brian therefore count as the most successful ever product of the SAL??
Other SAL riders who appeared in World Finals were Bob Andrews (1960, 1961, 1962, 1964), Mike Broadbank (1958, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1966, as well as 1965 and 1967 as non-riding reserve), Leo McAuliffe (1963), Ray Cresp (1961), Colin Pratt (1967) and Ivan Mauger. Ivan appeared in the same Rye House team as Brian Brett in 3 SAL meetings in 1957. Brian appeared in the 1965 final.
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1. Peter Craven
2. Tom Farndon
3. Jack Parker
4. Peter Collins
5. Nigel Boocock
6. Malcolm Simmons
7. Michael Lee
8. Brian Crutcher
9. Ron How
10. Ken McKinlay
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This is meant to be a fun topic.
The question is - where in Britain (and Northern Ireland) would you like to see Speedway taking place ?
You can name up to 5 locations but they can't be current locations (or Wembley or Belle Vue Hyde Road). If you name more than one location then please put in order of preference. If I get enough replies I'll collate into an overall top 5. BTW 'London' doesn't count.
To start the ball rolling I'd plump for
1. Aldershot
2. Reading
3. Bristol
4. Southampton
5. Barnstaple/North Devon
Cheers
1. Liverpool
2. Telford
3. Exeter
4. Norwich
5. Bristol
Regarding Barnstaple, the Town Council met on 31st July 1945 and discussed the proposed use of Braunton Road Sportsground twice a week for greyhounds and speedway. The Council had received a committee recommendation that the application should be refused.
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In the immediate post-war era up to about 1952 we had many speedway magazines to choose from. Among them were 'Speedway News', 'Speedway Gazette', 'Speedway World', 'Speedway Reporter,' 'The Broadsider', 'Speedway Echo', 'Speedway', 'Monthly Speedway World', 'Monthly Speedway Reporter'. In the late 1940s going into the early 1950s they were 'essential reading.'
Besides asking if anyone has any memories of these publications, does anyone remember the writers who used to provide the copy for them?
Here's a few names to conjour with: Basil Storey, Tom Morgan, John Wick, Peter Arnold, Eric Linden, Len Steed, Sammy Samuels, Eric Linden, Cyril J Hart, Len Went, Frank MacLean, Howard Jacobi.
Sadly, all this is just a recollection of better times for speedway - an era when it was very much a mainstream sport.
They were indeed essential reading in those pre social media days. I also have copies of Track News Weekly Illustrated and On The Track from that era.
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Here are Ronnie Rolfe's averages 1960-63. Courtesy of Matt Jackson.. 1960 he rode for CH, 61 for CH and Sheffield, 1962 CH and 1963 for Hackney. For each year listed are the # of meetings and CMA. Here goes 1960; 19-6.32; 1961; 24 -6.60: 1962 ; 24-5.87; 1963 10-3.76 .So for example in 1960 he rode in 19 meetings with a CMA of 6.32. Looks like Ronnie's best year was 1961. One comment -I think these are not just Prov. league matches but also other official meeting like e.g. the KO Cup-they may also include the regional leagues for PL teams e.g. Northern league, these were usually run at the start of the season before the regular PL season got underway. Hope this helps.
The Cradley Heath website records that Ronnie Rolfe moved to Sheffield in 1961 after he started to struggle a little with the track at Dudley Wood. However, his statistics for the time he spent with the Heathens make interesting reading in this regard.
From my own records, checked against the Speedway Researcher site, in 1960, Ronnie's record was:
Provincial League
Home meetings - 34 rides, 57 points plus 5 bonus, total 62, giving a CMA of 7.29
Away meetings - 37 rides, 43 points plus 12 bonus, total 55, giving a CMA of 5.95
All meetings - 71 rides, 100 points plus 17 bonus, total 117, giving a CMA of 6.59
He also scored 3 points from 4 rides in the KO Cup and 46 points plus 4 bonus from 31 rides in challenge matches.
In 1961, his record for Cradley Heath was:
Provincial League
Home meetings - 16 rides, 24 points plus 4 bonus, total 28, giving a CMA of 7.00
Away meetings - 15 rides, 11 points plus 2 bonus, total 13, giving a CMA of 3.47
All meetings - 31 rides, 35 points plus 6 bonus, total 41, giving a CMA of 5.29
So, although Ronnie's league average had dipped in the early part of the 1961 season this was mainly due to lower scores in away meetings compared to 1960.
He rode one other match for Cradley Heath in 1961, an away challenge at Sheffield, where he scored 9 points from 4 rides. Having also scored 8 plus a bonus from 4 rides at the same track in a PL match a couple of weeks earlier, thereby averaging 9.00 from two meetings at Owlerton, it is hardly surprising that he moved there in May. The Tigers needed to strengthen, having just lost 28-50 at home to Cradley and 20-55 at Edinburgh before Ronnie's signing.
In 1961 Ronnie's Sheffield record was:
PL Home 28 rides, 52+3 = 55 points, CMA 7.86
PL Away 32 rides, 47+4 = 51 points, CMA 6.38
PL Total 60 rides, 99+7 = 106 points, CMA 7.07
Including Northern League, KOC and challenges - 128 rides, 190+12 = 202 points, CMA 6.31
In 1962, again with Sheffield:
PL Home 40 rides, 63+14 = 77 points, CMA 7.70
PL Away 34 rides, 32+4 = 36 points, CMA 4.24
PL Total 74 rides, 95+18 = 113 points, CMA 6.11
Including Northern League, KOC and challenges - 132 rides, 175.5+34 = 209.5 points, CMA 6.35
Finally, with Hackney in 1963:
PL Home 25 rides, 24+4 = 28 points, CMA 4.48
PL Away 9 rides, 3+1 = 4 points, CMA 1.78
PL Total 34 rides, 27+5 = 32 points, CMA 3.76
Including Southern League matches - 40 rides, 35+6 = 41 points, CMA 4.10
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I have a vague recollection of being a participant in this match with the outstanding memory chatting throughout the second-half with team-mate Bert # Name Removed # about Southampton's hopes for the forthcoming speedway season.
::::: I apologise that the surname of the then Southampton team manager has been edited out by the forum. A clue is that he was a leading rider and team manager for the Saints following their return to speedway in 1947, most certainly he was one of the great names associated with the track in post-war seasons.
We will just have to refer to him as Bert Crou cher
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Are you BL65 attempting to justify the mentions for Errol Brook in this thread in the context that he was a showbiz personality?
My previous post was about the speedway heroes who took to the football pitch. The riders were aided by other speedway figures on occasions of course, The report on the game against Paramount Sports, which took place on Sunday, 31st January 1960 at Raynes Park, recorded that a large contingent of New Cross and Wimbledon supporters were in attendance. It was also noted that the Speedway XI brought on substitutes Jim Lawlor and John Hyam for the second half, even though both had already played a match earlier in the day.
All I will say is that whoever played they proved they were much better on a bike than kicking a football around. In fairness it would be interesting to know how the likes of Matthews, Finney and Wright would have got on against them on the track. Not very well I suspect.
The former West Ham footballer Harry Kinsell once told me that he and his team mates were regular spectators at Custom House in the early1950s and although a few of the more daring players were tempted to have a go none were brave enough. The football club would no doubt have taken a very dim view if they had.
I recall that Barry Briggs was good friends with David Webb, the former Southampton and Chelsea footballer. I wonder if David ever had a go on the track.
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I fail to see why Errol Brook should have been mentioned at all in this thread other than perhaps for a pee-take! He was never at anytime so far as I know involved in anyway with the side. I doubt if Errol Brook even knew much - or cared - about the doings of the Speedway Xl.
The Speedway X1 was mainly compromised of riders living in the London and surrounding areas with much of its management done by Reg Trott.
The Speedway XI was active for many years, sometimes with matches against Showbiz personalities. From reports it seems that a good time was had by all, although the games were still taken seriously.
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Referring back to Errol Brook, the Birmingham promotion saw some potential and included him at reserve in the challenge against Leicester in 1960. However, he was up against riders of National League standard and failed to score from two rides.
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Speedway XI football team? My mums uncle Viv Harwood was closely involved with them i believe
Spot on. For several years the team played during the winter, raising money for charity. Viv Harwood was indeed a regular member of the side. The 1960 team rapidly improved and narrowly lost 6-4 in the final match.
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You got me on this one BL55
Two clues. The first two matches were lost 11-1 and 9-0. The editor of Speedway Star was introduced as a substitute halfway through the first match, having already taken part in another match earlier in the day.
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The following were all lined up to turn out for which team in 1960?
Pat Flanagan, Danny Dunton, Jim Tebby, Roy Bowers, Ernie Baker, Ron How, Ken Mellor.
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This is what the Cradley Heath website says about Ronnie Rolf (sic): Another product from the Rye House training school he made his debut in the Southern Area League in 1956 for both Rye House and California but became a regular performer at Hoddesdon in 1957. When the club didn't operate in 1958 Ronnie had some outings with Ipswich for their National Trophy matches.
He wintered in Venezuela in 1959 / 60 before getting his big break with the heathens when the Provincial League started in 1960.
Ronnie was Cradley's first captain in the Provincial League, he regularly scored around eight points per meeting throughout 1960 with his first maximum coming in a Challenge match against East Anglia in July. A little overshadowed by Eric Eadon and Harry Bastable later in the season but earned a place in the Heathens side for 1961.
1961 saw Ronnie start to struggle a little with the track at Dudley Wood and after just nine meetings he was transferred to Sheffield.
He regained his form with the Tigers at Sheffield and stayed with them for the rest of 1961 and into 1962. In 1963 Ronnie decided to move nearer to his London home but the move didn't work out and he retired in July.
Ronnie was one of a group of riders who would have been glad to return early from Venezuela in late December 1959, with the tour being described as a failure by Phil Bishop. As I recall, the organisers suffered a loss of about £250,000 on the venture. This included spending £100,000 on buying land and building tracks, only for the Caracas stadium to be demolished three months later to make way for a new highway. The eight meetings staged were poorly attended, with admission prices unaffordable for the masses. Other riders on the tour included Brian Brett, Geoff Pymar and Cyril Roger. Cyril suffered an injury and spent some time in hospital.
Shortly after he returned from Venezuela, Rayleigh prematurely claimed that Ronnie Rolfe had signed to ride for the team in 1960.
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Re Ronnie Rolfe, he had the distinction of winning the first ever meeting held at Estadio Bello Monte, Venezuela on 27th November, 1959 (I have the programme for this).
I recall that there was a picture of John S. Hoskins in the programmes for the opening meetings in Venezuela, with an article headed 'Inventor del dirt-track'.
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With acknowledgment to the Sheffield Speedway website, I found this relative to Ronnie Rolfe's period with the club:
ROLFE, Ronnie - Born: London 1929
Started his career back in 1956, riding in the Southern Area League for the Berkshire based California 'Poppies'. After spells at Rye House, Ipswich and Cradley, Ronnie joined the Tigers for the 1961 season and proved to be a reliable second string in the Sheffield side. He scored 194 points for the club in two seasons before a move to Hackney in 1963.
Although he rode in a best pairs event and an individual meeting at California in 1956, I don't think Ronnie Rolfe ever rode for the Poppies in the SAL. Prior to those meetings he had ridden a few times at Rye House, which is where I believed he started. Perhaps his first rides were at California in training sessions.
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BL 65, can either you, Bobbath or Norbold tell me anything about Ronnie Rolfes career. I vaguely remember him having a couple of rides at reserve for Hackney back in my schooldays but that is all . He stuck in my mind because it seemed like the peak on his helmet was made of cardboard and flapped up and down when he was racing, but apart from that I have neither seen or heard about him before or after.
Ronnie started on the Southern Area League tracks in the mid 1950s, which I am sure Gustix will probably be able to relate details of. Regular rides were hard to come by until the last season of the decade. From 1956 to 1959 he appeared for Rye House, Ipswich, Wimbledon and Belle Vue in official matches. After showing good improvement with Rye House and Ipswich in 1959, as with a number of riders his break came in 1960 with the formation of the Provincial League. Ronnie joined Cradley Heath and captained the side for a time. He left the Heathens for Sheffield early in the 1961 season. Following two fairly good seasons at Owlerton Ronnie moved back south to join Hackney in the Provincial League, but he was less successful and he retired during the 1963 season.
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My great entertainers were old-time riders Eric Chitty, Howdy Byford and Dennis Newton. And they were entertainers in full definition of the words in the period between the late 1930s to probably the mid 1950s.
They used to go on to the centre green mike and entertain the crowd by singing to them. Chitty was an especially talented vocalist and in the late 1930s even made several records. Newton added to his vocal talents by accompanying himself on the guitar.
Yes - REAL entertainers in my opinion.
Hackney could have provided a group in 1965, with promoter Len Silver, riders Howdy Byford and Malcom Brown all renowned entertainers. Not sure which one would have been the lead vocalist though.
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I am fairly certain that Roy Peacock, who rode at Belle Vue and Liverpool at one time, left the sport to concentrate on a vocal and musical career. I am not sure but think he is still alive and JUST maybe now known as Roy Chappell? I DO STAND BY TO BE CORRECTED ON THIS COMMENT!!!
The Jazz magazine 'Crescendo' carried an article in the 'Band Call' column in September 1962 which stated that
"Roy Peacock gave up a promising career as a speedway rider to become Roy Chappell, singer with Sid Phillips. Roy still gets out his bike, leathers and crash helmet when he comes home to Manchester. He practices on Ainsdale Sands, near Southport."
Sid Phillips was a jazz bandleader. If my memory serves me correctly, I believe the sketch of two riders on the front cover of the 1960 Liverpool programme was drawn by Roy Peacock.
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Does any member have knowledge of an American rider Pat Biddle who pre-WW2 is said to have rode on tracks in the Midlands including the events that took place at Tamworth? I can find no record of this rider.
There is mention of Pat Biddle testing at the BSA track.
http://www.national-speedway-museum.co.uk/birmingham-short-term-tracks.html
Further reference is made on the Birmingham History Forum, where he is described as having been a fitter and tester at BSA.
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/speedway.14296/
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Don't wanna push my luck here-but the next second half race was Matt Mattocks, Bob Pawson, , Derek Timms and Barry Chandler-do you know the result of that one and then who met Errol Brook and Ron Cooper in the second half junior final. BL 65 is correct- it wasn't in the Dudley Wood bar that I bought him a beer, but there was pub outside the stadium- I think you turned right out of the stadium walked a little way along the road then turned left onto a road which I seem to recall was on a slight rise-the pub was on the left as you went up the slight hill-it was packed that night. Does anybody remember the name of the pub, is it still there?. CH was a great place to visit (wot great sarnies)and its a goddam shame the stadium has gone. I have to remind BL65 that it was in that pub after the meeting that I bought him a beer- maybe two (although because Newport won I may have bought several people a beer). I also note in the program that there was a match race between the top scorers of CH and Newport after the KO Cup Final and before the second half. I think it was between Ivor Brown and Peter Vandenberg but don't know who won. So BL65-you never know I may one day come over and collect the beer or three that you owe me!! Wonderful days weren't they!!
Ivor Brown won the top scorers race, following his 15 point maximum in the match. Having consulted my programme, it shows Timms, followed home by Chandler and Mattocks, with the final won by Timms from Cooper then Chandler. I can't help with pub names unfortunately.
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Fixtures that I am aware of for the pre-war Tamworth tracks:
Tamworth
Tamworth Road, Fazeley
1932
1st August Cracker Jack’s Team v Broadside Bow’s Team (abandoned after heat one, rain)
7th August Cracker Jack’s Team v Broadside Bow’s Team
14th August Tamworth 28 Nottingham 23
21st August Golden Gauntlet (abandoned, rain)
28th August Golden Gauntlet – Tommy MacDonald
4th September Scratch races
25th September Golden Wing Scratch Race
2nd October Tamworth Championship (postponed, rain)
9th October Tamworth Championship
16th October Fazeley Scratch Races
30th October Fazeley Scratch Races
1933
17th April Scratch races
23rd April Scratch races (abandoned, rain)
30th April Scratch races
7th May Individual Championship
14th May Scratch races
21st May Tom McDonald’s Team v Arthur Ryder’s Team
28th May Scratch races
25th June Scratch races (postponed, rain)
2nd July Scratch races
9th July Scratch races
16th July Golden Gauntlet
30th July Scratch races
Tamworth
Mile Oak
1932
28th March Handicap and scratch races
16th May Handicap and scratch races
5th June Scratch races
19th June Scratch races
17th July Handicap and scratch races
28th August Scratch races
4th September Scratch races
23rd October Silver Cup
1933
5th June Scratch races
11th June Scratch races
2nd July Handicap and scratch races
1934
6th May Scratch races
3rd June Scratch races
10th June Scratch races
I believe the site of the Mile Oak track was made available for sale in June 1934, with an asking price of £175. However, the local press carried an article in July 1937 which stated that the management were attempting to revive speedway at Mile Oak, with a challenge match to take place between Tamworth and Coventry. The Tamworth team was to be led by Tommy Stewart. If the meeting proved to be a success it was the intention of the management to seek to establish a team second to none.
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Many thanks for that.
As you appear to know the area rather well, I wonder if this description of a coach trip in 1932 means anything to you, which might help establish where the track was.
"The outer journey was made along the Watling Street through Hints and Canwell passing the speedway at Mile Oak and through Fazeley".
The journey would have originated to the west of Tamworth. Hints is south of Lichfield and east of Cannock and Brownhills in Staffordshire, Canwell is between Sutton Coldfield and Mile Oak. If Hints had not been mentioned I would have thought the journey was from Birmingham, but given the order of travel I suspect it more likely to have been from Lichfield. There was a Lichfield speedway supporters club at one time.
I believe the Mile Oak track was on Sutton Road, close to Watling Street but about a mile west of the Fazeley track. The post-war track which was operated by Arthur Westwood was on a different site to the pre-war Fazeley track, being constructed on the former Peels cricket ground.
Going through some old newspapers recently I came across some reports of speedway meetings held at Tamworth dated 1932/3. I can’t find any mention of speedway in Tamworth for these dates in any history book, so does anybody know anything about this?
The track was in Tamworth Road, Fazeley. The Tamworth Hounds rode at Watling Street, Fazeley after the war. Was this the same site? My first instinct is that this may have been a grass track, but in 1933 there is mention of the track being relaid to improve racing, so perhaps not.
Some of the riders mentioned appearing include the wonderfully named Cracker Jack, Tom McDonald, Atta Boy, Pat Biddle, Bob Harvey, Baggy Trimnell and Arthur Ryder.
Pat Biddle I know was an American who rode for Halls Green and Birmingham previously but who were the others?
Apparently it attracted large crowds during its short existence, yet it seems to have been forgotten about.
Any information would be gratefully received.
The Trimnell brothers were greengrocers, with a business in Erdington, Birmingham. They rode as 'Cracker Jack' and 'Broadside Bow'. Harold Trimnell, who ran Tamworth Speedway at that time, was prosecuted for failing to pay the correct amount of Entertainment Tax.
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In The Family!
in Years Gone By
Posted
Bob also rode in a few meetings for Belle Vue in 1951, as well as being a regular in their Junior team matches that season.