Grand Central

I hate to intervene in your never ending spats with Humphrey ... But surely you cannot be serious in comparing Larry's public profile with Ivans. I will assume you are just joking.

Well, your comment pushed it from 20 to 21. So I am betting a fair few more.

If the riders were truly ready to race no one would have been excluded. That is all they needed to be. It is that simple.

NOTHING NEEDS TO BE DONE just a few riders need to understand one of the fundamental.principles of the sport from down the years. Be at the tapes and be 100% ready to race when the 2 minutes expires. And you will NOT be excluded. Bugger about as it expires and you cannot have that certainty. It's your risk.

Frankly we all know that it is rare and that the riders are usually all ready at the tapes whe the two minutes expires. That is what is supposed to happen. And it works so well so much of the time it would be ridiculous for anyone to try and come up with 'different procedures' when this procredure works very well indeed in thousands of races, as you say. Any rider in Heat 16 who WAS at the start and ready to race at 0:00 was NEVER going to be excluded. That is the only lesson they should ALL learn. Especially if they have designs on being World Champion.

Except ... the referee excluded him. And him alone. So something did actually matter to the only person that mattered. I was trying to reason out just what that was from the evidence available. We can rant and rave but the exclusion will stand. Even if you think the reason the referee used was wrong. (as I do too!) But If I wanted to be World Champion I would at least 'bear that in mind'. Just in case it happened again. Having an idiot in the box has been quite a feature of this year's series. So it might quite easily.

Quite right. I personally agree. But there are many many reasons why I dont agree with a whole load of refereeing decisions. They do seem a bunch of jobsworthy idiots so much of the time. At all levels and in many ways. I am just trying to percieve the reasoning for this jobsworthy idiot in this case. I don't go for curruption. I go for nerdish pedantry on the part of these type of people. It usually explains their daftness in decisions as refereeing always seems to draw that sort of nensense out of otherwise quite sane and reasonable folk. There was a distinction observable between the postion and therefore "readiness" of the rider in white and the other three at 0:00 specifically. White is a length or so back at 0:00; he was neither 'at the tapes' nor under the starting marshalls control. Definitely NOT ready to everyone. And just at that same moment of 0:00 the others happened to be 'at the tapes under the starting marshalls control' Their readiness could be debatable. But after the thirty seconds of gardening that was quite exhaustive by all four; whoever found themselves a length or so back from the tapes at that precise moment the two minutes expired was open to having his exclusion button pressed. And at that moment it was only true of white. It just seems that the starts today with stoppages, warnings and exclusions are proving to be a a major issue at every level that is materially affecting the sporting spectacle at a time when we cannot afford it to happen at all.. And the current poor crop of referees nationally and internationally seem to be just the sort of prattish bunch to mess it up more rather than help sort it out. This is an endemic problem.

To play devil's advocate. According to the rules the critical factor for exclusion is just what the position is at the moment the two minutes expires. Not before , not after. They are to be excluded if they are not ready to race or under the control of the starting marshal at that moment only. We all know that as the clock counted down from 30 seconds all four were fannying around gardening. But as the clock ticks to 0:00 for that one or two seconds ONLY Tai is about one length back from the tapes and the other three are at the tapes (but still fidgeting). One second later Tai moved forward to join the others. But at second-zero he was the one that wasn't and that gave the ref the chance to pounce. I have a picture of the referee poised with his hand hovering over all four coloured buttons. Whoever was 'out of position' at the single moment of 0:00 was going to 'get it' and it was Tai just being a yard of two back from the tapes that gave him that opportunity. Whether he was being even handed in his approach of whether he was 'itching' to put Tai out is moot. But at second-zero Tai, inadvertently, have him the option. And he took it.

On another thread another poster has just described the bloke from Monster as 'an absolute penis of a man'. I am unsure whether this is more perception than fact. But it does seem a reasonable conclusion from the evidence.

Actually I dont see an awful lot wrong with the set up we have currently. If only it operated with a little more sporting integrity. Top 8 being needed to ensure qualification and those below that have to sweat it out for a wild card pick (or have put themselves through the qulifiers as a safety net). Top 3 from the Challenge and 4 honestly chosen wildcards is also fine. The two real flaws I can see are 1) The strange way in which the qualifers were done and dusted so early in the season this year. It has totally spolied the drama and means that some riders know that they are in for next year when this years series was only at the half way point. Daft. 2) The independent nature of the 'picks' is just bogus. Despite what some here will claim. The picking of Holder last October was a sporting disgrace. Thankfully he has not helped to hide the blushes of those who picked him with a rush of 'form' and he should be gone by the year end. Sadly reputations have been tarnished irrevocably.

Too right. It seems to have been forgotten just what a daft pick he was last year and just how many people here were arguing against it on good grounds. Only to hear of his 'surprise' pick by the totally independent FIM. No outside considerations were made, of course, it was done entirely on merit.

No doubt they would. But that was as true 'then' as it is 'now'. If there was a guy outside the SGP who was good enough to mix it with the SGP top 8, had star quality, real pulling power and just happened to be the right nationality to add to the series .. Then considerations about whether or not be did the qualifiers would miraculously turn to dust and he would be offered a place. And rightly. Just like they did with Emil. But that is not Madsen ... Or any one else. At the moment.

An attitude that is understandable. And it is also equally understandable when it is entirely ignored. As was the case with Emil.

It would seem that the powers-that-be feel that one warning followed by an exclusion for a repeat offence is the right method to 'police' rider's behaviour at the start. This should be extended to 'policing' the bahaviour of referees. Two 'mistakes' or 'failures' and he is disqualified. Might add an extra element of excitement to the GP AND stop them being so hot on stopping races when riders have made good, legal starts.

Brilliant multi-page tribute to Ronnie Moore in today's Speedway Star. The (older) writers have really come in to their own in the last few weeks and months when they have had to cover the deaths of such big names in the Sport. They clearly write from great knowledge and personal experience that hasbeen wonderful to read; despite the tragic circumstances. Puts some of the modern articles on up to date issues that, all too often, do little more than regurgitate press releases into the shade. And the brilliant cover photo of Ronnie is just as stunning as the earlier one of Ivan ... Just great.

Some people have some seriously weird dreams.

Oh OK. You might be right. But the cracks will be that much wider in one league and totally unfillable in my view.

Not sure which system you are saying 'could work' so not sure if I agree or disagree. I disagree. Even the current Championship cannot be viable for much longer with the need to accommodate the likes of Glasgow with the really cash-poor teams. A three-tier structure that has the criteria set rigidly on financial positions can really work. A top league no more costly than the current Championship, a middle tier at a level that the lower championship and higher NL teams could cope with (whatever that is) and an 'amateur' league for the likes of Buxton, IOW etc who can afford hardly anything.

I really cannot see any viable alternative to some form of 'three-tier' structure. It is the only way of accommodating the widely disparate financial positions of the clubs we have today. Trying to shoe-horn (say) Poole and Redcar into a one league structure is borderline-mental. Having said that; it will only work if the BSPA get the various levels right. And that can be done. Unfortunately recent experience does not leave me optimistic, especially when considers the current poor standard of leadership. Probably the worst of any since 1965.

Actually what's really wrong is patrolling forums just to 'police' other people's legitimate points of discussion.

I think that the People article did have an impact on the National media and it's attitude to the Sport. It played right into the hands of all those around Fleet Street who always believed us to be a Mickey Mouse Sport. And pretty much drowned out the voices of those who had battled long and hard on our behalf. It was a right kick in the teeth to them from those riders involved. That added to the 'Danish takeover' at the time diminished the profile we DID have in the media until that time to the negligible levels we know now. And in the end that would have had impact at the gates and sponsorship.

They have crap refs in Poland just as much as everywhere else.

Immense Heat 16

Absolutely right. In the 'olden day's of 'real' test matches they were official FIM inscribed events with all the priorities and aggrandizement associated. This meeting is not of that status. I notice that it does not even appear in the ISLB list of confirmed events updated on July 31st. So as far as the rest of World Speedway is concerned it does not really 'exist' in international terms. It has an official status more akin to a Testimonial or similar representative challenge and a Polish contract that has designated practice sessions included really does have more priority.

They will be paying their PRS dues for the music they currently play over the pa ... That doesn't change because they choose to designate a particular time to a rider for presentation purposes .