Grand Central

I think that is all pretty much spot for on. The great thing about the SWC is that everyone has always had the same number of rides as all other teams. Every race the score is seen as being the reality of where the competition stands. The programme just works. Pairs events are always all over the place in the programme and you never really get that tension from the race by race scoring that has been so apparent in the SWC.

I agree that the change was forced on One Sport.But the national teams event they ran for two years never really took off anyway, did it? I don't think there is any evidence that a pairs event would fail due to the lack of team riding ability. If that were the case then normal league racing in Poland and Sweden would be failing for the same reason. And it isn't. The real problem with Pairs meeting s that the public has never really got 'into' them. There is something about the format that is just not that fulfilling. They fall between a rock and a hard place; not individual nor team. They are neither Arthur or Martha. Whereas the TV audience feedback had always been very 'pro' the SWC most years. And the excitement on the BSF has always been quite vocal despite the Joker. Even though track attendances may not have held up for anything but the final. A one off pairs event may be a bit of a novelty, for some. But I do not see it filling that 'mid season' break in the SGP calendar. At least nowhere near as effectively as the SWC has done so well, so often.

Agree that it is in that state now. But when they started and for a couple of years they used national teams just as you suggest doing now. Still a damp squib for most folk.

Who cares if we just have one Aussie. That's plenty. Especially as he is World Champion. I wouldn't worry about Melbourne. If it does go there again there will be plenty of local 'fillers' drafted in by that time of year. Just like this year and before. Don't allow his buddies to make up a false excuse for keeping Holder in.

All of which I do appreciate. We have all lived through these times together. My concern is about the choices now being made for the future. I can see, yet again, the argument for pairs so that more countries can put together competitive 'teams'. And that the resulting meeting you envisage looks good. Equally I hear the reasons why reserves may be necessary to make the pairs viable at all. My problem remains that pairs events have never been that successful, really. They have not captured the imagination of speedway folk before, much. And specifically the three-man-pair version seems to have failed in the nineties when tried. And these last few years that One Sport have comeback with it seem to have been largely ignored by the fans. So, is it really worth another try, now?

True. Not because of Denmark's dominance. I agree. Which was provided in the format last used in 2000. For the years 2001-2017 this has never been re-introduced. It may have been better.

No they didn't. The World Pairs was merged with the WTC using the pairs format just for the years 1994 to 1998. The not-s0 dominat Denmark's last two wins were back in 1988 and 1991. The truth is that the Pairs had died on it's backside in the nineties, never recovering from the bonkers 6-man races of the late eighties. Yet another humdinger out of Geneva. By 1999 we were back to a four team WTC with the daft 'three-man-pair' version dropped. But this time they adopted the formula allowing two men per team per race. When BSI took over in 2001 it reverted to the one-man per team per race. For some reason

The shoddy journalism at play here has actually done everyone a diservice. The issues involved have been poorly covered and little light shone on them in real detail. I still believe that there were issues raised aboout ex-rider entry to meetings that need to be addressed differently than is currently being done. That has been lost in the cocophony. The managment at Belle Vue have been publicly maligned without any opportunity to respond. When they clearly have some very pertinant points to make on the way this has developed over the last couple of years. And Peter Collins, and his reputation have, subsequently, been sullied in equal measure. Only because of the article, and the way it was constructed, has he now been subjected to either public abuse, at a level that I hope people will live to regret. But also subtle references to his stroke, that have followed, have now potrayed him as some sort of broken man. This has, all round, been a sad episode. PR will need the Wisdom of Solomon to put together an article that will redress the damage done.

Funny thing about pairs events. Never been a fan of them at all. And they do not have a good pedigree at all They used to be a regular 'filler' meeting at tracks when these were viable; but even then they were rubbish. Easily missed. The BL/NL pairs from the seventies to today are always the ''poor relation' of shared events, no matter what the era. The Somerset staging only benefitting hugely due to Cardiff. Even then, my personal preference has been a Friday evening out down at the Bay, The 'one sport circus' was pretty uninspiring even when the teams meant something and has really died on its backside since they changed to the half-baked version of the last two years. Even the old 'World Best Pairs' only occasional raised more than an eyebrow of interest most years; even with the excellent record England had for years. In fact my memory needs to extend back to Belle a Vue in 1977 - forty years ago - to come up with a treasured memory from the competition. Mauger beating Simmons and Collins was one of the best races I have ever seen. On the whole the Pairs will be a poor substitute for the SWC. And that just needs to be streamlined to fewer teams, have just a race off and final. AND GET RID OF THE BLOODY JOKER.

It must be so good to have friends in the right places. Dreadful decision, if true.

I happen to agree with quite a large part of PC's stance on some (but not all) areas of this subject. I have not suffered any form of brain injury. I would appreciate my opinion being taken at face value. No 'compassionate' replies are required.

I am not advocating letting in hangers on. I hold no brief for this 'PC list'. My only concern is having a fair system for the old boys. And especially the lesser men. Not the stars at all. It just makes no sense to calculate 'money lost' n the way folk are doing. When, on the whole, the money is not coming from these people in the first place, so cannot be 'lost'. It would seem that I find myself in agreement with PC on the issue off the WRSA. And his stand against using his VIP status and using his own pass at BV when others are wrongly treated seems prlncipled. As does his wish not to align himself with the WRSA when he disagrees with the type of deal they struck with the BSPA.

The WRSA deal is not totally free. They pay £35. Making it Free for everyone would not cost as much as many suspect. The vast majority of ex riders are not attending anyway. So no money would be lost to the sport by more coming free. The real issue I have is the ridiculous deal that ties these men to bringing their carer to gain free entry. That is just wrong. It is the wrong type of deal to do when trying to respect them as people let alone when claiming to value them for their contribution to the sport It is not beyond the wit of man to come up with terms that deal with who should qualify for a pass, what discount they get and how many and/or what type of meeting it could be used for. But this particular bring your parole officer/vicar/nurse to get in for free. That just stinks.

That is NOT the information provided on the WSRA's own website. A Former rider pass costs £30 plus a fee of £5 and the information given is that free admission is only available when accompanied by a full-paying adult. It is disingenuous to call that person a 'guest'. They are a pre-requisite of the discount 'offer' more akin to a voucher code or 'money off coupon' in human form. Frankly I would not be 'President' of any club that treats it's members in such a fashion when negotiating with other parties. It's degrading.

So ... the WSRA terms. Are they reasonable ? Or even sensible at all. Does it not seem a little odd to say that an ex-rider must be accompanied my a full paying adult to gain free entry. Why is he not allowed the human dignity of attending alone ? Or is it acceptable for this 'deal' to treat him as someone in need of a 'carer' ?

Which is exactly what PC says in the article. In fact nothing that has been said here seems to contradict anything said in the article. So just to be clear. Is there anything in the article, or the quotes from Peter Collins, that is/are untrue?

Why wait for a full week at least for that. They can post their side if the story right here. And we would all be put right, straight away. Rather than wait and just allow public opinion to solidify against them. As it surely will. Edit ... Clearly there has been an unofficial reply posted. Not sure it is the same 'story' as would be provided by the promotion. One would hope it wasn't.

PC says in the article that he gave Taffy one of the passes he did get from the promotion for this season. The sad thing is just how petty minded people can be. We are just talking about the cost of admission for only a few people. It's all so low rent. And for some reason Speedway Promoters seem to be THE most pettyminded low rent folk around. Strange isn't it ?

I am completely fine with the 'amount of movement' that has occurred in the vast majority starts I have seen over the last twenty or thity years since the tape touching rules were brought in. I see no reason to do anything about them at all. Only a very few of those that have been stopped actually needed to be brought back due to an obvious mess up in control by Start Marshall or referee. Their role is key. The rest, in fact most, that have been stopped, and restarted - with or without warnings - were absolutely fine for me. They should have been let run. Generally, I just dont have a problem with the starts of the last many years. From before this recent change of attitude by refs and 'tampering' with the rules on warnings etc started. EXCEPT referees now stopping them at all the bloody time. That IS the problem. Not the riders or the start.

I'm getting a little fed up with all this obsession with anticipating the start. Perhaps BSI can employ a sniper. If getting a flyer is so much of a problem for some here. And the stoppage causes too much pain as well. Let's take them out. And be done with it.

Any such person would have to be appointed by, paid by and report to those very same promoters. With their myriad of manifest personality disorders. How would that change anything ?

That is not true. It is only an opinion of yours when a soluton has been offered and you have ignored it Or just don't like it. My answer was stated on the first page. No exclusions, warnings or stoppages if no one touches the tapes. The race just runs. A Very Workable Solution. And better than what we have today. (in my opinion).

Whether these fixtures are meaningless or not, is a matter of opinion, for any of us. And we, here, are free to express it publicly. However for a licenced promoter to believe it is very revealing. Of their bizarre mentality, if nothing else. But for the same person, in that position, to express it publicly. That could be seen as 'Bringing the Sport into Disrepute. People have been fined or banned for less. .

These ill tempered press releases on the part of promoters are becoming tiresomely commonplace. Have they no professional or personal dignity? The winter really cannot come quick enough for us all to get some respite.

Absolutely spot on. The 'grading system' would be utterly futile. The only sensible sytem is to use averages without bonuses for team building with a ponts limit of 42 points for seven man teams over 15 heats. The match point system currently operating, with a minor tweek, would then sustain interest in matches and reward away teams who keep the scores close. No Joker rides needed. If people want simple. That is not complicated.