Grand Central

Thanks. Good to get more info, as always. Just a little intrigued then. Many people seem to want to damn BSI for only following the money. Actually, not me as clearly no one makes any cash out of Terenzano. So if they perceive some other benefit, do you have any idea what that is? As it's a bit difficult to work out from here. And they are sticking to Italy with Lonigo next year too. Certainly better than Terenzano but it still,looks a little incongruous next to the other venues that are mooted.

Yes, I suppose 'they' must. But who are 'they'. We all know about the 'Tourist Information' deals that finance the SGP going to Gorzow, Torun and Cardiff because of the endless promotions. And we are well aware of promoters like Bill Buckley and Mr Pavlic who stand full square behind their bids. But can't remember any particular 'moneybags' from Terenzano.

Have we ever really had an answer to that question? In my cynical moments. I'd wondered if Mr Bellamy had a holiday retreat in Northern Italy, or perhaps over the border in Slovenia. And with the weather being so good at this time of year it 'just seemed a shame to waste it'. .

Clearly I seem to have upset you. Which seems a shame as your post (in combination with the previous two others) does not point out any inaccuracies in anything I wrote. Conversations with people in the sport reveal all sorts of information; often this comes from parties that are not directly involved. But it is totally understandable to assimilate this into our greater understanding of Speedway's current position; good or bad. And this you have certainly done with your riders costs of engine tuning etc. And whilst others seem to think that all discussion of riders finances is somehow off limits, I do not and have never said such. But wheras I feel that any such information about the finances of the sport that we come by, even indirectly, may be 'fair game' for discussion. You do not. You have limits. Limits that at the moment principally apply to sugary drinks companies It is OK to point out that you know Monster pay something rather than zero and go public with that But whether you do or do not know any more from off the record chats remains out of the public domain. And as I did point out before that is your prerogative, no doubt. But you ask what my problem is. Inconsistancy. I suppose. That is all. But anyway I will fly the white flag and say 'Truce'.

So the bills from engine tuners to their self employed clients, the riders, are lying opened on the desk of their Promoter. That Promoter is not paying the bills himself. But he tells a journalist all the details. Who then relays it to us. But it would be wrong for us to speculate on how much sponsorship Monster may put into the sport. Or other private financial matters in Speedway. Very interesting. .

Let's not get too carried away with the thought that it is the BSF that the promoters hate. It is just the criticism, they hate. They cannot hack it no matter what the 'forum'. Surely we all remember Len Silver taking great umbridge at the Speedway Star feature on people's views earlier in the year. In the 21st Century dissent just happens to come via electronic media. For most of the twentieth century it would be via post, the local paper or in person. But promoters have always hated it. They have never encouraged it. And they certainly have never listened. Back in Pioneer days it would have been no different. AJ Hunting, Johnnie Hoskins et al. They'd have shot down the carrier pigeons. If they brought critical messages. .

That race in Ben Hur was pretty good. But it was the last one I can remember.

Quite True. As you know. Different rules apply to all matters SGP related. .

This sort of story baffles me. Which defines insanity more succinctly? They fact that this promoter is nutty enough to enter into an such an agreement with a rider. Where the terms are such that these ridiculous bills land on his desk at all. Or. The fact that the same promoter is nutty enough to tell a journalist of his madness. Whichever, it is difficult to offer sympathy to anyone involved. Let alone £17. .

Thankfully it is just a heavily edited version of the Belle Vue Speedway statement from last week. Conveying exactly the same information.

On the sites and forums that deal with my specific profession. There is quite a bit of discussion regarding the sources and levels of funding that are available for different purposes. We are quite open and that informs the debate to the benefit of us all. As yet I have not been asked about the values of Speedway sponsorship on those sites. Funny that.

No, the great thing about journalists is their fantastic ability to juggle as many double standards as possible just to sell copy. All at the same time. No story is complete without including a person's age, their house price and wherever possible their earnings. Right or wrong is irrelevant. Any possible detail of finances is included in a story for the simple reason that most readers want to know it. Even though no one admits it. 'We' are above all that. It's 'them' that want to know. You know. Those people who are 'no better than they ought'. And quite right no journalist would want to tell anyone how much they were paid. But Wayne Rooney. He's fair game. Anyone who 'respects' Monsters right to keep such things a secret. Is perfectly entiltled to do so But no one will confiscate their NUJ card for revealing all that they know.

If they carry on sleeping with 15 year olds for the next fifty or sixty years. It sort of does. As it 'appens.

To have the leaden feeling in your stomach at reading the fateful words in the Programme. "ACU Steward: L D Stripp." And then have the cloud lifted by the joyous thought that old Lew might well leave the Stadium with a black eye. Oh the glory days of Ken Walton..

It clarifies all the points about exactly what stage they are at right now and exactly who is doing what. The speculation that a planning application had already been submitted is corrected And the role of Architects and others in the developing of that still-to-come application is clarified. And I'm sure that is greatly appreciated by all of us who ALL want the project to succeed. It now makes a hell of a lot more sense. Lets hope it all happens speedily, now. When it gets to the right stage I will be buying a bloody brick myself! .

Thanks for the link TWK that does take us through to a very welcome statement from the Belle Vue promotion. It certainly does give a much clearer, and understandable, picture of the current position. In the light of the doubts surrounding the Swindon redevelopment and this weeks momentary panic about Brandon it is really good to read. .

I forgot that golden rule relating to projects like this. Blind optimism helps immensely in bringing it to fruition. Whereas the airing of concerns, pragmatism and realism are always to be avoided. Oh, yes, you're quite right. I was actually referring really to the Speedway operation at Hyde Road in the almost 60 years it ran. We always called that The Zoo. Not the actual Zoo. That had, probably the best chance of being the most profitable Speedway operation in the Uk. But did it really ever bring in the level of earnings that are going to be required to pay off this debt now being taken on?

I wonder if any Speedway promotion in the history of the sport has ever made the equivalent of £4.5M to £6M profit. I doubt that THF (and their predecessors) ever did that at the old Zoo.

How right you are. Journalism on this and so many issues in Speedway seems to stop at what the Journalist has just been 'told' by others 'who should know'.. Rarely does it seem to involve making investigations of their own via more productive routes.

Manchester City Council's website, like all Council's nowadays, offers anyone the opportunity to search for Planning applications. I cannot see one for this project. I have never heard of building contractors putting in planning applications in the way that you suggest Phil. It would be good to get this more precisely understood. The money, 4.5M GBP is being lent by MCC to Belle Vue Arenas Ltd. The Council are borrowing from 'Prudential Borrowing' (what is this?) themselves so that it is not coming out of Council Revenues. I see no mention of Manchester City FC funding being related to the National Speedway Stadium as you suggest. But, whatever the source, this is debt that must be repaid; and at whatever interest rate the Council is having to pay to get it. We all know that is cheap, now. But over 60 years? Even with zero interest that is £75,000 per annum of capital repayment; and every 1% of interest charged would (at the start) cost an additional £45,000 pa. Has any Speedway promotion ever operated under such a level of debt repayments? Quite a few people seem better informed than me so I will let them, once again, rip my concerns apart.

That's OK on all grounds then. My mind is now at rest.

I think an awful lot of the pessimism expressed here looks warranted. And am surprised that words spoken quite some time ago are still being taken as gospel now. When so much time has passed with no concrete action hasvingtaken place. And the fact that this particular promotion entrusted with the operation is not even regarded that well WITHIN Speedway. Doesn't give one much cause for optimism for their performance on this much larger stage. And over 60 years. I mean, sorry, but would you want YOUR local council, spending your council tax on this loan deal. Really.

Fine in Theory. But did you go to the Fours at Peterborough? .

Fair point.

No there was something positive to come out of it I think we found that when it comes to the nominated races. Magnetic nameplates are marginally better than coloured building bricks. But only just. .