MajorMauger

A rich speedway club is one which gets decent crowds and has a rich owner! Birmingham next season can only guarantee the rich owner part, cause recent history suggests crowds haven't been good enough at Perry Bar in higher Leagues, dodgy Phillips promotion or not!

I wasn't having a go at Cradley, just indicating that being such a big club they will be a huge draw for riders but the points limit has limited how this which makes the League more even. Birmingham will also be one of the more attractive sides to join in the NL and they to will be limited. As it is I still think Cradley are favourites looking at line ups! Yes we know that Amateur speedway is free but if your running a team out of stadium where you pay a hefty rent eg, Cradley, Birmingham, Mildenhall then you have to charge an admission to cover costs and supporters won't pay these admission prices if the team is too weak!

Like you said Cradley have cherry picked to SOME EXTENT! This indicates the points limit have done their jobs! I think the new points limits have meant theirs more emphasis on bringing through 3 pointers and make it more difficult for the 3-7 point career 3rd Division riders to find team places And for me seeing some of the virtually unknown 3 pointers progress with enthusiastic racing will be something worth watching! Back to thread namely Birmingham Brummies, despite being a standalone track not long out of the EL with a rich owner and bigger crowds than most NL clubs the Brummies have signed a number of 3 pointer riders plus up and coming 5 pointer Sam Chapman! Fair play Birmingham Brummies!

The heatleaders will hold their averages at least, and the decent 3 pointers will increase theirs significantly. Some of the riders inbetween and a few 3 pointers will put more on their averages than they would have in a stronger League but the minimum ans maximum points limits were necessary cause the League has more teams so the strengths had to be better levelled out than they were in the past. Also the League couldn't afford a team doing a "Scunthorpe" and putting out an uncompetitive team which costs the others money. At the other end of the scale the maximum limit will ensure the likes of Cradley don't cherry pick all the best riders Anyway come 2016 and most likely their will be a different number of teams in the National League so the points limits will need to be tweeked againi!

Looking at the record books, I see that Peterboroughs reserve team once it again, Sheffields reserve team won it twice and the Bournemouth Buccanears won it so the 2nd teams of higher League tracks haven't done to badly!

Yeah I agree the balance looks good with an emphasis on pushing 3 point newcomers through. Though I suspect their will be some spread out races as the heatleaders will initially be beating most of the 3 pointers by quite a distance although you do get better by riding against superior riders. Yes Deans right in that the standalones with higher outgoings can't afford to track teams of novices because they won't get crowds so you'll always have the situation of many of the standalones being stronger than the 2nd teams of higher League tracks. But the big standalone teams don't always win everything - Since the modern 3rd tier started in 1994, the long gone Linlithgow who were the Scottish equivalent of Buxton won the League in 1996, followed by Peterboroughs reserve team in 1997, I think Newports reserve team won it soon after, then Oxford won it in 05, little Buxton won it not long back and didn't Scunthorpes 2nd team win a few years back?

In 60+ years of watching speedway the formation of the 3rd Division in 1994 has in my opinion been one of the best things to ever happen to British speedway! The 3rd Division in its many guises since 1994 has benefited British speedway for many reasons such as developing young riders, allowing riders not good enough for higher League racing but who can still provide good entertainment and experience for the young riders a League to race in, new tracks a lower cost level to race at to test the water and allowed former higher League tracks many of whom shut down because they couldn't afford it a League to race in and thus become active in speedway again! Considering our last World champion Tai Woffiden started his League career for Scunthorpe in the 3rd Division says it all. Somerset , Trelawny, IOW, and Kent all of whom had never staged League speedway before started in the 3rd Division. Would they have started without the 3rd tier being in operation? - Maybe not? Former higher League tracks like Mildenhall, Rye House, Stoke, Wimbledon, Weymouth and Cradley all reopened in the 3rd tier. Terry Russell had deserted Arena Essex back in 1996 yet they were kept going by running a team in the then Conference League. I know for a fact that without the 3rd Division my local 3rd tier club Mildenhall wouldn't have reopened and I'd say its likely Rye House and Stoke would be the same. Look at this upcoming season, messrs Eastbourne Eagles and Birmingham Brummies would be lost to League racing without the National League! (Lets hope the drop down proves successful for both clubs!) Would the longest serving 3rd tier club Buxton have ever ran in one of the top 2 Leagues if the 3rd tier had not been around? - Probably not! The 3rd Division will always have clubs with different reasons for being there like higher League tracks 2nd teams in it to develop riders and the stand alone clubs (bar low cost Buxton) having to try and win the League in order to attract viable crowds. This upcoming seasons minimum and maximum points limit should help to keep teams closer in terms of rider strengths and stop the ridiculous Scunthrope Stags situation of last season occurring again! In my area I think Mildenhall speedway in the NL offers better value for money than the nearby King's Lynn in the EL and Ipswich in the PL!

Yeah sure, I think Eastbourne will win most of their home matches simply because the tight confines of Arlington will offer a lot of home track advantage and many away riders will overshoot the corners which will allow the technical riders like Mason and Johnson to get points just by holding the line. But away from home the team could find getting harder with Mason the No1 a definate "homer" who doesn't travel well. But many fans especially those who've seen Eastbourne win the top flight on a number of occasions and be the stand out team of the mid to late 1980's 2nd Division will be very sceptical about 3rd Division racing and will no doubt only take to it if Eastbourne are seriously challenging at the top which at present looks unlikely! Nowadays for the worse I think, winning has become the be all and end all in League speedway. I remember watching Norwich in the early 1960's when we had 2 reserves called Reg Trott (latterly rode for Eastbourne in the early 70's!) and Derek Strutt who never scored much at all particularly away from home but stayed in the team for a number of years cause in them days we liked seeing regular line ups. In modern times both of them would of lasted a season at the most!

David Mason has been a tremendous servant to the 3rd Division through all of its various incarnations over 20 years, indeed one of its best ever riders and I'm sure he'll score more than OK around the tight confines of Arlington which I suspect will catch out many of the throttle merchant inexperienced riders, but hes not a No1 nowadays! Look at last season with Kent. He averaged about 9 at home and about 5 away where many of performances were poor at best! I could understand siging Mason as a back up to a strong No1, but with Eastbourne dropping down they needed exactly that, a No1 capable of being at the top of the League averages and a team capable of seriously challenging for the title! Like I've said before, I hope the venture into the 3rd Division works out well for Eastbourne speedway because surely the future of speedway at Arlington depends on it, but the team has a very unappealling, mid table at best look about it!

This side has a 3rd Division "Dad's army"/never will be's/ journeymen look about it! Marc Owen is the only one out of the 4 signed that can say with any honesty that he can realistically look to move to a level beyond the 3rd Division and hes been riding for a few years without be one of the top youngsters around! I presume one of the last 3 remaining places will go to the Dugard boy who rides and the other 2 have to be young up and coming 3-4 pointers who have serious potential! After 23 years of continuous top flight speedway, before that 16 years of 2nd Division speedway with a 5 year top flight spell in the middle of those 2nd Division seasons, regulars at Eastbourne have had a rich diet which means that next years move into the 3rd Division has to be done with a decent team challenging at the top of the League to ensure crowds don't dip under the 400 mark!

Brendon Johnsons a decent nice lad whos friendly, professional and reliable, but he's never going to go any further than 3rd tier level (please prove me wrong Brendon!). That said hes got lots of experience at Eastbourne, can turn a bike hard so should be able to score well at Arlington! Danny Warwicks also a decent guy whos approachable. Hes also very quick especially on the big tracks and on the grass and beach racing. It will be interesting to see if he can get used to the tight confines of Arlington although even if he doesn't he'll still be able to get the better of many riders there! Fingers crossed that National League speedway at Eastbourne on a Sunday can be sustainable. Crowds of 500+ should be achieveable on a Sunday afternoon especially on a nice day!

I think the racing at Ipswich is better than King's Lynn which is one of the most over rated tracks in the Country nowadays!

Yes the tricky nature fo Wolves can often be a problem to riders well above NL standard but the main reason why Cradley have ran away with the League was cause they get massive crowds, have a very generous and large supporters club all of which combine to give them more financial muscle than any other NL team which enables them to assemble the strongest team they possibly can!

I wern't compaining just stating fact that most people involved with speedway and Ipswich in particular will know all to well! That said despite Chris Louis' obvious social shortcomings, I respect that he does know what hes doing speedway wise and Ipswich must be one of the more stable clubs in British speedway!

Great that so many clubs are interested in running NL next season but where are the extra riders going to come from?

And how much do you think NL riders get paid? Most would be on deals of under £20 point I reckon! Now if all 7 riders in a NL team were on £30 per point then if the team scored 60 points at home one night that would be £30 X 60 = £1800! I know the promotion have to pay the away riders points money as per the NL standard which is ? Like I said before 300 adults paying £12 to watch NL speedway at Perry Bar = £3600 which would cover the rent plus a fair chunk of the rider costs! I'd say their would be at least 150 OAP's paying lets say £9 to get in. This equates to £1350. This is without including children! These figures suggest that with decent sponsorship NL speedway Perry Bar could be viable!

And when has Chris Louis ever been open and easy to talk to? Parallel universe?

Erik Riss the teenage World Longtrack champion son of Longtrack legend, ex Witch Gerd Riss I presume? Have you heard something? Great Longtrack rider but has only ridden in the German League which is a lower standard than the PL and is on mainly big wide tracks! Would be a bit of a risk but an interesting one! Yeah Richie Hawkins has a middle of nowhere average that will likely mess him up for a Witches team place next season. Shame cause I think he's a good captain and always puts in a hard trying shift every meeting!

Will be interesting to see what happens at Rye House after Uncle Len retires from promoting! We all know he's a contankerous old codger who won't delegate but without his financial input and knowledge Rye House likely would have never reopened at Hoddesdon in 2000! After he sold Rye House at the end of 1985 to Ronnie Russell, the club saw a slow but sure decline until the 1993 closure! Hopefully Rye House speedway will be around for many years after Len Silver!

Yes but with the much reduced rider costs, the costs of NL racing will be much lower even allowing for smaller crowds! Say Birmingham get 300 adults paying £12 to watch NL racing that equates to £3600 which would cover the rent plus a reasonable chunk of the rider costs!

I like Danny King as a rider but he's like a lot of British riders in that he flatters to deceive and has reached his highest level! That said he wouldn't be a bad signing for Ipswich!

Peterborough United FC only get crowds over 5-6000 on a good day so they can't be classed as a big club and that's also worrying for speedway cause if the Countries most popular sport can only get those sorts of crowds in a City with a 200,000+ population what chance has speedway got? The nearby King's Lynn is different in that its a small town, the speedway team gets bigger crowds than the football team, theres not so many things to do in KL compared to Peterborough, the Norfolk Arena is closer to the town centre than the EoES is so therefore the speedway gets much more focus and King's Lynn speedway gets more co-operation from the stadium owner than what the Panthers do! That said Peterborough speedway in the PL with a strongish team running on Friday nights including the big crowd pulling Good Friday night can surely attract average crowds of 700-1000?

Needs must in these desperate times for Cradley and Birmingham speedway! I think Cradley and Birmingham both running at Perry Bar in the NL could work as long as both had teams with strong teams, and 4-5 of Cradley matches at Wolves when Wolves weren't riding on a Monday including the Cradley V Birmingham match! Remember that the finances needed at NL is a lot lower so the breakeven crowd figures needed at that level are much lower than EL!

Absolute no brainer - Cradley running out of Perry Bar in 2015! This is in order to keep speedway going at Perry Bar and for the ultra successful and well supported Cradley team to keep going. This will also have possible long term postiives cause Cradley may find a new home of their own while Birmingham eventually revert to the sole team at Perry Bar! Either 2 options for Cradley running out of Perry Bar - Cradley in the PL with Birmingham running in the Midland development League. Or both clubs running in the NL. I think the former option would be the better one because Cradley have outgrown the National League and with rider numbers at that level very stretched as it is, running two NL teams at one venue may result in the quality of the 2 teams being very watered down which wouldn't help to attract viable crowds.

Agree with everything you say bar the last sentence Brummie Kev! Cradley have outgrown the NL and the Brummies need more than NL to capture the imagination, just look at the poor crowds last season in the top flight that led to the mid term closure! I know fans from both clubs feel uncomfortable about a Cradley team running out of Perry Bar but believe me this is better than no speedway and would give both clubs a better chance of operating independently and on their own tracks in the future!