Little Thumper

But speedibee, you are forgetting that the promotion/relegation brainwave is going hand in hand with a major re-branding exercise so that any casual supporter of the sport will have even less idea of who is doing what and where and what effect a team's results will have on what they may or may not be doing the following season, assuming that they are not operating a business plan advocated by the Philip Green school of business management.

At the end of the day, if the rent hasn't been paid then that money is still owed to the citizens of Manchester and the council must take all reasonable steps to recover the money and obviously, consideration must be given to seeking redress through the courts. Should the City Council enter into a new agreement with a new speedway tenant, then it will surely require the arrangement to be underwritten by a third party, as to allow further public money to be wasted would surely be deemed negligent. Perhaps, a one or two year lease may be agreed with a new (backed by guarantor) tenant whilst the Council looks for a suitable and solvent long-term occupier who is prepared to take on what may otherwise become a rather expensive white elephant. I think that this sad tale may haunt British speedway for many years to come.

As gustix says, the council's prime responsibility is to safeguard the interests of their council tax payers. Why they have allowed their tenant to decline to pay their rent, I have no idea but I am sure that questions will be asked in the council chamber. When I have owed the council any money, the threatening letters have arrived in double-quick time and I can only assume that Belle Vue Arena/Speedway Ltd were possibly suggesting that more funds would be forthcoming and this has not materialized. I think that a lot of questions remain unanswered here and I cannot see why Manchester City Council would wish to take on another set of speedway tenants who would be equally unlikely to be able to afford the £200,000+ per annum rent without some other party underwriting the arrangement. I'm sure Manchester City FC could you use the facility as a training ground and £200,000 is a bit of small change from the back of the settee for them. Yet another entry in the long list of shooting yourself in the foot fiascos for British speedway. What next?

According to the Manchester Evening News, some of the BV staff were told earlier in the week not to come into work, http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/belle-vue-aces-lose-stadium-12123221 I sincerely hope that something can be sorted out for any staff who are at risk of losing their jobs.

Not quite sure how they thought that they would be able to pay back over £200,000 each year but perhaps they had hoped to earn revenue putting on other events such as concerts. I look forward to hearing how any new promoter thinks that they can earn this kind of money.

It is being reported on ITV's website that the NSS cost £7 million to build and I believe that BVS/BVA were meant to be paying this loan back in the form of rent. Not quite sure how long they thought it would take them to pay back that kind of money but surely any new promoter would be faced with the same debt pile, as Manchester Council has a legal responsibility to protect the tax payers' money that it has spent. http://www.itv.com/news/granada/2016-11-03/speedway-team-kicked-out-of-stadium-and-league/ All in all, another bad news day for speedway.

I assume that BV Speedway/BV Arena Ltd have/had some full-time employees. Does anyone know what their position is and whether they are still in employment? I see that there is nothing about all this on the Belle Vue Speedway site and it would be nice if someone would put up a few words to clarify the situation.

I am not entirely sure how a re-branding exercise and a bit of tinkering about with the rules is going to attract more paying customers through the doors or make the sport more financially attractive to potential sponsors bit I feel sure that cost-benefit analysis will have been carried out and in the fullness of time, the instigators of this "total restructuring" will explain how their plan of action will guarantee the long-term future of speedway racing.

So when was this dialogue started? Seeing as the BSPA have stated that Belle Vue will be running next year, they must know who the new promoters are and if so, why should anyone have any confidenece in them? Who will be settling the debts run by Belle Vue Arena Ltd? Will the BSPA be paying Manchester City Council any outstanding rent and any money still owed to riders? I really can't see how it can be stated that Belle Vue will be running again next year when there are so many unanswered questions with regard to this year's goings-on. If Belle Vue does run again in 2017 and it all goes pear-shaped, surely it would be hard to justify this course of action to any poor souls who find themselves out of pocket.

Pity they couldn't have done their speaking some months ago and then perhaps the debts wouldn't have been allowed to pile up. I shall ask again - how will any new business model be different? Wow! If you can't make money running a big meeting like that, I'm not sure how you could make money at any meeting. Clearly, there must have been a big outlay to somebody for the privilege of running this weekend and it would be interesting to know where all the money went.

These are very valid points, STEPHEN333. Assuming that new promoters are found for 2017, what would they be doing differently to this year's promoters? This years crew have clearly made so little money that they couldn't even pay any rent or riders' wages, so what fundamental changes will be made to the business model to totally transform it from a heavy loss maker to a profit generator? I would imagine that the council tax payers of Manchester will be asking their elected representatives why they have allowed this situation to develop and who will be held responsible.

Well, I bow to your superior knowledge, arnieg. But as I understand it, to be classified as self-employed, you must be able to offer your services to whoever you like, whenever you like. If a rider has signed a contract to ride for a team, how could they be free to offer their services in the free market? And then of course, there is the matter of riders being "assets" and how that reconciles with the notion of free self-employment.

Do you still think that after today's tribunal ruling? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/28/uber-uk-tribunal-self-employed-status So how do speedway riders' working practices differ from Uber drivers?

Today's ruling from the employment tribunal which found that Uber drivers were not self-employed but were employees and should be paid the national living wage and enjoy the rights and protections afforded to employees must surely have implications for speedway riders. The court found that the Uber drivers were not free to choose who they worked for and when they worked and therefore the terms and conditions imposed upon them meant that they could not be classified as self-employed. If speedway riders are judged to be employees, is there any justification for promoters to seek to avoid their obligations under the law?

Well, Mike, that is a very fine idea but I have a slightly better one. Why don't clubs do what they say they are going to, allow the time and resource to do it and if they don't do it, they get kicked hard in the goolies by the person who is there to make sure they do it. All seems quite straight forward to me. Make it so.

I'm not entirely sure that the British supermarket industry subscribes to that particular business model but perhaps, your optimistic viewpoint may be correct. And as they say at Tesco, "Very Little Helps".

Skid, I admire your enthusiasm, I really do. Manny prayed to God and said, "God, I'm your faithful servant. I have devoted myself to your teachings. I go the synagogue every week and I have raised my children according to the scriptures. But please, God, could you just make it that I win the jackpot on this week's lottery?" God thought about this for a while and said, "Yes, Manny my child. I can pull a few celestial strings for you. But Manny, meet me half way on this..........buy a bloody ticket!" I go to Asda, I buy a tin of beans. I don't expect the manager to accost me on the way out and ask me if I could stick some Asda posters up round town whilst I'm out and about. Let's have some leadership from the front and the rest will surely follow.

Well, that's absolutely smashing but I think that what people are worried about is the next 50 years rather than the last 50 years. And as foamfence so rightly points out, speedway is a sport and a competition but it is also a business. And it is a business that operates in the fiercely competitive recreation sector. Customers have lots of choice where they can spend their recreational pound and speedway needs to get it's house in order otherwise it will be consigned to the dustbin of products that have passed their sell-by date. Be seeing you.

Skid, I am with you 100%. The promoters and governing body of our beloved sport of speedway are our General Haigs and we are but the humble foot-soldiers sheltering in the trenches. Speedway supremos can't keep doing the same thing time after time in the vain hope that sooner or later they will drop lucky and achieve massive success. This has to be the moment when the decks are swept clean and speedway re-invents itself. If some backward-looking operations aren't up to the job, then cheerio to them. The organizers of the sport in this country can't keep turning a blind eye to the woeful deficiencies of some operations and let infringements occur without a word of censure. So if the boys at the top give us a glimmer of hope that the ship is heading in the right direction, then I for one will promote speedway to the best of my humble ability. If their only concern is running up a large bar bill and tinkering about with the nonsensical rules that they dreamt up at the previous jamboree, then I believe that people will continue walking away from this once great sport and it will die an ignominious death. Just my opinion, obviously.

Skid, my friend, indeed we could all do more to promote the sport. But as many contributors far wiser than myself have remarked, you can't promote something which has rendered itself unpromotable and brought itself into disrepute. The powers that be must bring about a fundamental change to the sport or British speedway will be extinct within 5 years. Tinkering about round the edges just won't cut it, I'm afraid. And to once again quote Alan Bennett, "You can't polish a turd". Just my opinion, obviously.

Yes, Ryan was very emotional on Sunday when he announced that he had ridden his last race. ....but sometimes over those long winter months, the telephone rings and a rider receives an offer that is just tempting enough to convince them that perhaps they could squeeze in just one more season. You don't believe that a rider has retired until you discover that he has sold all his bikes and equipment and has been spotted playing golf.

So, where you are going wrong, my friends is that you are assuming that a fixture list is a statement of fact. In reality it is nothing of the sort and is merely a list of events that may or may not happen depending on whether one promoter or another can be bothered to put them on, whether the riders have stomped off because they are fed-up with not being paid and whether there is a tad too much damp in the air. I'm sure that this will be clarified at some AGM or other and then you bunch of ungrateful, moaning plebs will know exactly what's what. Matter closed.

What is the penalty for bringing the sport into disrepute? Or is the sport in so much disrepute already that a bit more is hardly worth bothering about. I look forward to reading on the BSPA website what action they intend to take.

I'm glad to hear that the Rye House crew enjoyed their trip to the Frozen North. Yes, it would have been nice to see 14 riders in the pits but hey, who's counting! I thought that they gave it a pretty decent effort and the crowd were generous in their appreciation when a Rye Houser did the business. There was a good atmosphere about the meeting - nobody had anything to prove and it was just about giving it a good blast. So thanks to the good people at Rye House and best wishes to your team in the future. Be seeing you.

Are motors ever stripped by scrutineers and inspected? I assume that a capacity limit is in place, so how is it enforced? I know there have always been "trick" engines in bike racing and as a result, at the higher levels of the sport, dyno testing, sealing of motors and if necessary strip down have become almost routine. Sorry for my ignorance about this.