HenryW

The type of riders you refer to have a chance to go through the qualifying rounds and maybe get lucky on the night and join the series even if they aren't at the top of the World. Others have done it... Without wanting to knock the guy, the issues of single match qualifying rounds were proved by young Artem in 2011. He romped through the qualifying final in Vojens defeating riders like Lindback, Lindgren, Kolodziej, Zetterstrom, Jonasson and Harris. Once he got into the series he was completely outclassed apart from one round...at Vojens. He clearly loves the track there and can compete at the top level on that track, but none of the other GP venues. It maybe wasn't so much of a problem in the one off final days if it went without a big name or two for a year due to a mid season injury or bike problems in a qualifying meeting, but a 12 round series needs the best to be there, and a rider's form across a whole season is surely a far better way to judge than one off meetings.

But it's not about ONE NIGHT any more, it's about 12 nights... They aren't as good as them in the league matches they race, so why would we expect them to be better in World Championship matches? Any rider who constantly delivers to the standard of riders like Nicki and Freddie in the various leagues and international matches generally gets an invite if they don't make it through the qualifiers...

So...Just to get this right. You would be happy with just ditching the meeting wildcard and having another full time rider there from the qualifying final? That seems to be the only change you are suggesting to the current system. Or is it the riders that are picked that you have a problem with? If so, do you really think that Janowski, Batchelor and Sundstrom are better than Lindgren, Nicki Pedersen and Harris (OK, I'll give you the last one, but not the other two!!)

Surely someone capable of winning not 1 but 2 World Titles would be capable of finishing in the top 3 of a GP Qualifying competition which doesn't contain the top riders in the World. Young MAY not have been given a place in the series in the year of his first win, but surely he would have been there after that... The SGP doesn't sit in isolation to the rest of World speedway. All the guys that race in it also race in various leagues around the World, and in various other International level events. The younger guys get plenty of opportunity to test themselves against the very best in these events, and also to prove themselves against the "contenders" in the Qualifying meetings. When making picks, IMG don't ignore guys that fail in the qualifiers but consistently do well in the leagues. The only slightly sad thing is that they feel they need to keep gifting a place to an undeserving Brit

The lower leagues are all showing a blank weekend in their fixtures too.

I missed the wrapping up of this thread earlier today, so thought I'd make my final comments Wouldn't that actually be a backward move as it was roughly what they used to have in place in the early days of the GP system. (not that I am suggesting something is necessarily a bad idea just because it was tried and dumped before) On the subject of it being too easy to stay in the GP series, I would suggest that entirely depends on what Nation you come from. I think that riders like Wieslaw Jagus, Jarek Hampel, Krzysztof Kasprzak, Subastian Ulamek, Grzegorz Walasek, Janusz Kolodziej and Rune Holta may disagree. These Poles have all been dropped from the series during the last 5 years. As for the field not changing enough, I would return to my statement that the top riders in the World don't actually differ that much from year to year, so it's entirely reasonable not to expect a complete overhaul of the competitors each season if the series actually wants the best (which I accept it doesn't have in 2012 due to the issues with the Polish League rules) If you go back 5 seasons to 2007 you will find that 9 of the riders that competed regularly that year have been eliminated from the series for at least 1 season since then. The six riders who have competed each season since then are Nicki Pedersen, Jason Crump, Tomasz Gollob, Greg Hancock, Chris Harris and Andreas Jonsson. Three of the 2007 field have subsequently returned to the series through the qualifying rounds (Bjarne Pedersen, Antonio Lindback and Jaroslaw Hampel) and one has been handed a place due to the aforementioned issues with the Polish League rules (Hans Andersen). From 2008, 8 of the regulars suffered elimination at some point. 2009 sees 6 having dropped out, 2010 had 4 and 2011 had 4, although one of those (Lindback again) has immediately returned through the qualifiers. So what we actually see is a pattern of the field slowly changing over the years, which is exactly what I would expect as some riders drop down the rankings and new ones come in to replace them. The only thing that is maybe slightly surprising is that Greg Hancock and Tomasz Gollob have continued to hang around for so long, but I'm not sure I could make a decent argument that they aren't deserving of their place in the series

It was actually Humphrey who was nagging the ref, not me Exactly. Didn't his good friend Chris Holder make the same statements in 2009 when there was a lot of talk about him being offered a place alongside Emil? Of course, I suppose this could have been a face saving moving in case he didn't get offered a place, but either way he waited another year to prepare himself properly and actually qualified on merit for the 2010 season.

I wouldn't like to guarantee the accuracy of this, but in the past I think I settled on these meanings... x - fell and disqualified. и - disqualified for foul or dangerous riding. п - fell ф - touched tapes с - retirement

As most of us have realised, the British Leagues are slipping down the rankings in World Speedway, and yet the qualifying process for the World Championship still exists for those that want to be a part of it. The UK doesn't hold as many rounds as it used to do, but that fits with the lack of talent in the Nation. I seriously doubt that any Brit has been held back from the GP series in recent years due to the more limited qualifying rounds... Parsloes current favourite reason for dissing the SGP is the fact that Darcy Ward chose not to compete in 2012....This is the same Darcy Ward who exited the SGP qualifying system at one of the 3 semi finals in 2011 which didn't even have the best riders in the World involved, and which left him rated below such notables as Buczkowski, Golubovski, Monberg, Ruud and Hansen.... Don't get me wrong, Darcy is class and would probably have added something to the SGP series, but the fact that he failed so miserably in the qualifying system seems to be lost on Parsloes who claims this as a failing of the GP series....Would Darcy have been invited into an old style World Final? Ermmm...No! Yet he was invited into 2 of the SGP meetings in 2011 and offered a chance to be a full time member of the 2012 series..... You have to hate a system which is soooo harsh on the young guns and offers them no chances..... Of course, you could argue that Darcy would have had a better chance in 2012 with the old system (if you ignore the fact that he was offered that chance in the GP system) but even Parsloes himself seems to accept a system that uses qualifying systems from the year before if the following definition of a "true" world championship is accepted...

Yes

Erm. I don't think Trading Standards would have much to say about it. It's a simple case of supply and demand. The Premier Inn at Wembley has a normal rate of £49. If you want to stay in the same hotel the night before the Carling Cup Final, it'll cost you £179. The night of the FA Cup Final will set you back £189. Best get on to trading standards about that! Hotel prices in Cardiff aren't really relevant then, are they. You are happy to take a train 45 minutes from Cardiff after the GP!

Sorry to pick on this quote, but it just inspired me to comment on something that has been mulling around in my mind for a while... I'll try to cover myself from abuse here by saying that I might just be putting this out to play "devil's advocate" and encourage debate, but.....Can the claim of "strength in depth" not just alternatively be read as a lack of "a true star"? Hypothetically, if someone stepped up above the level of the rest of their peers and completely owned the sport, would you say that they were the greatest ever or just dismiss them for racing at a time where they didn't have good competition? Similarly, if someone was only just winning in a close competition between them and 2/3/4/5+ others, would you say they were the greatest ever because they fought off their (many?) nearest rivals?

Haha, F-S-P, I didn't got as far as considering the Finnish League yet Feel free to provide details about any rules that are in place for putting the Finnish teams together if you know them

The British, Swedish and Polish leagues all currently use averages to determine the make-up of teams in their leagues. The Danes use a grading system to determine their team strengths. However, I am not sure how other leagues do things. Can anybody help by clarifying what rules are in place for determining team strengths in the other leagues, and whether there are any restrictions on Nationalities, ages (eg including under 21 riders), etc. The leagues that I am interested in are the German Bundesliga, the Czech Extraliga and the Russian League. Any information would be appreciated...

Or just leave it where it is on a Saturday evening...I'm not sure why you think Saturday evening is bad. If you ask me it's actually a great time to have a motorsports event as there really isn't any competition from other major events. As Humphrey mentioned, it's hard to find a gap in the motorsports calendar on Sundays. From the middle of March until the end of November, there were only 2 weekends that didn't have F1, MotoGP, WSB or WTCC scheduled this year. Many Sundays had several of them. That's before you even bring in the big domestic championships like the BSB and BTCC.

I'm not sure I get your point there....Maybe I am just really slow, but what do you mean by that comment?

So, Scott Nicholls and Davey Watt seem to be the ones being invited in to replace Ward and Protasiewicz. Oh dear.... Maybe this is the time for Scott to put in his serious bid for the World Title

Can you explain why you think that should count against him? Grigory raced in the World Cup match that he was able to race in. Should it not count more against FIM events being staged in the UK?

Just to be pedantic, the last 4 One off World Finals were all held in August. Since 1980 it was always held on the last weekend in August or first weekend in September, with the exception of the last ever one which was held on the 20th of August. That means the Torun GP is maybe more appropriately timed. At least Greg would have still been in a run off for the title in that one

Bringing back Nicki?

I think it's more complicated than just a case of choosing money over SGP for PePe. As a rider who has consistently been one of the best in the Extraliga in recent years (there are only 4 GP riders with higher averages in 2011) I am pretty sure PePe would have been able to get another team place for the money he wants. However, he was born in Zielona Gora, captains the club and loves racing for them. A couple of years ago he signed a long term contract and declared he wanted to end his career with Falubaz. He clearly doesn't want to give that up just to chase a dream in the SGP, and who can blame him? I just find it sad that he has been put in this position by the Polish authorities.

Just to clarify, I don't believe that PePe has withdrawn from the SGP series just yet. He has merely refused to confirm that he will race in it. Instead he has confirmed that he will continue to race with Zielona Gora. He still has hopes that BSI will wait for him while Zielona Gora argue their case that 2 GP riders should be allowed in the team. Does that work, though? Ultimately it just makes the lesser riders more valuable to teams. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the wage bills between Poole's team this year and their league winning team of 2003 to see just how much has been saved by the weakening of the Elite League.

It was reported that Matej Zagar was invited to take part if any of the 4 refused their place. However, Matej has already rejected this offer and signed to race for Gorzow alongside Tomasz Gollob next season.

It will be interesting if Zielona Gora do actually stick with Hancock. He was the lowest averaging of the 3 they had this year and I thought that Jonsson and Protasiewicz both had multi-year contracts with them while Greg was on a single year deal.

Well, I thought I offered an argument defending it in my previous post, linked here, but I guess you didn't think that initial paragraph was a defence or you just chose to ignore it.