Parsloes 1928 nearly

AAMOI, why do Torun (and perhaps other Polish sides..?) have such a clause in their contracts..? Doesn't appear to make a lot of sense to me..?

Well okay - I was talking (initially) about tracks as a totality; I see now you just mean EL tracks. Maybe they COULD run all on a Monday - though I'm not hugely convinced of the value of doing that... Purely selfishly, Monday would be a whole lot better for me to attend my local track, Lakeside...

No idea... I was responding to the point that all British tracks should run on the same night... The fact is individual promoters will do what's best for them pragmatically and run on a night in line with how they see their business can best prosper.. Would seem that for most, Monday's NOT that night..!

With all due respect GW, you're failing to understand the pressures the huge majority of British tracks work under (and always have done..). Many share with other sports (predominately dog racing) and so race nights are more often than not determined by nights when things like the greyhounds or Stocks etc. aren't already running. A common night for Speedway in the UK has never been, isn't now and I strongly suspect never shall be possible... Nor do I believe that the majority of dire hard fans would want such a thing... A number go several nights a week..: commonality would end that at a stroke and they'd have to start talking to their wives!!

Ah, but the abuse I gave back was louder!!!! As you say, great days; and mate, after all those years of following Oxford like you did, I really feel for you..: these b@st@rds who take away our tracks have a lot to answer for.. THAT'S the biggest rivarly in the sport, us against the developers and heartless speculators... A beer next season somewhere..: is a must..!

Indeed. It would've been a no-contest Roberto!!

Me and the whole grandstand: Wimbledon's league match at Oxford 2005...?!

Would be perfect IMHO!

Which would explain why I'd say.

The other thing about team racing is that it allows a greater breadth of ability. There are top stars (heat leaders) but then there's also reserves and second strings many of whom are never gonna be heat leaders. Though of course getting the chance to race with and against better riders does allow riders the chance to move up.

Yep - that's 'im!!

This is the standard line given against those of us who question the status quo... Interesting that it was alright to advocate chance in 1994/5 but NOT okay to advocate change now...! So we're "old" (I doubt if you rode motocross 35 years ago that I'm any older than you!! ) and simply live in the past..? Not at all I'm far more interested in junior Speedway, helping young riders and doing what I can to support the sport at grass roots than I am in the Elite League and the GPs. What concerns me is the obstacles put in the way of the young and talented - because trust me (and frankly Football at the highest level in this country is even more guilty of this..) if you make the top of a sport the province of a pampered few sucking up all the benefits and all the money, then you WILL lose the interest of the young and ambitious who see that ambition thwarted... Now many on here fundamentally disagree with me and think that all is perfectly well with the state of SGP... Fair enough - I actually don't abuse them for having that view. But let's NOT have it said that those of us who have concerns live in the past...: we care about the future; to me the SGP is too much about the self-serving of those happily making money out of it..

Not if in different divisions and in any case I'm sure no-one in authority shall want to block Speedway at the magnificent Central Park even if a complaint did come from Iwade - who remember haven't been in the league since 2008..

It was tricky but look at the riders who excelled on it: Buzz, James Wright, Rory Schlein, Chris Neath, Eddie Kennett, Lewis Bridger, Richard Hall, Ben Howe.. These were great stylists and true racers all of them... Also some veterans proved it could be ridden: Malcolm Holloway, Rob Hollingworth, Jon Armstrong and of course Buzz is in that category too..

Well you'd be more rational if you quoted me correctly. I never said anything of the kind...! Seems to me it's you failing to respond to the actual points being discussed...! The point I made was that IF one really could be bothered to explore which route was mathematically easier to the old WF (and frankly WHY would we bother to do that...) you'd need to look at how many rounds each route involved (eg British Q/Rs on GB tracks versus the ones Danes for example took...) and the number of places (could be 8, 6, 4 or whatever) available in each round... btw, just to point out your posting here is completely nonsensical...! Heaven knows what you were actually trying to say!!

I liked the sunglasses!!! Sure people have argued in defence of the system but it IS one which sustains the status quo. Hugely ironically, the two riders who way, way back in '94 finished in the top eight in the last WF and so qualified for the then new-fangled GPs (Gollob and Hancock) have been the LAST two WCs! Which is a magnificent achievement by them both but does surely tell something of a story too.. NO-ONE has ever countered my main point which is that it is sooooo much more difficult now for people seeking to excel as quickly as they can in our sport to get their chance. The two examples I give are John Louis and Michael Lee. Tiger Louis turned to Speedway from 'Scrambling' (sic) aged 29 years ( ) in 1970. In the WF in 1972 he finished FOURTH! Michael Lee made his debut for Boston aged 16 in 1975. In 1977 in his first WF he finished FOURTH! Now you tell me if such achievements are possible now..? They 100% clearly are NOT. In the business world they call what we have now, the 'glass ceiling'.. And as none (or few..) of us debating this are riders, let alone riders aspiring to be the best riders in the world, it's difficult for us to understand what effect this glass ceiling might have on a competitor's psyche.. I argue it's a powerful force to disillusion and demotivate; and the general trend (again one difficult to say isn't happening..) of the older, experienced capmaigners ruling the roost and indeed seemingly finding it easier to win than previously suggests this is the case..

You'd need to see how many qualifying rounds and in each round how many places were up for grabs to do the sums on that one accurately... But that's hardly the issue is it..? Qualifying to be in a final 16 (as in the old WF) certainly involved a lot of hurdles (some easier than others) on the way... Having only to be in the top 11 of 15 to STAY In the GP series is (whatever one thinks) patently easier than that..!

Once IN the GP pool of 15 riders, recent history shows us that finishing in the top ten (this year, eleven) guarantees you staying in it... In order to qualify (as opposed to being selected to join) one has to fight through a number of rounds for three places... How is that not proof (without algorithms or binary or Pythagoras.. ) that "it's simply not correct that it's a mathematical fact"..? Looks very much like the odds are on the side of those in it to me!!

But actually in '96 the 'London Stadium' (sic) as the Wick was then known, went bust itself NOT the Speedway per se...

An excellent posting which sums it all up IMHO. As a spectator my personal opinion is that an early year GP (which Cardiff has always been) with a winner really not mattering that much, cannot possibly compare as a spectacle with a World Final where (even if someone gates five times to win as Phillip points out was the case in '74...: though a GP winner can also gate every race too!! ), where the champion of the world is decided that night! But okay, some say it's better for 'fairness' to have 'a best of' series.. Well okay, let's embrace that 'fairness' theme... My bug bear is that the way the GP system has evolved massively favours the status quo - so that once in it, all one needs to do is avoid finishing lower than 9th. out of 15 (and even then you'd likely get a 'reprieve') to stay in it.. I've yet to hear ANY argument for that patently unfair system.. Until this is dealt with, it is disingenious for folk to argue that the GP is a fairer way of deciding the World title... Surely there can be a GP series of rounds which starts off with a fair system of qualifiers..? And PLEASE don't say there is becasuse there is NOT an even playing field between those in and those trying to get in...

No I absolutely did NOT mean you, mate!!!

That's correct and were actually in the latter stages with the Dons challenging for the title mostly in four figures (ie over 1000!).. I'm sorry to say that I have no time for London-based fans of our sport (including some VERY high-profile ones who post on this Forum ) who didn't bother attending Plough Lane in the '02-'05 CL period - especially if based on former club allegiences. I live in East London and found there no problem whatsoever (sometimes by train, sometimes driving) getting across to Wimbledon and having the sport back in the capital was just FANTASTIC. Use it or lose it I say - though we should be clear actually Wimbledon Speedway did not close due to poor crowds nor indeed on high rent.. If a new track did open I personally would favour the London-wide tag for it...

Hmm, I might well have done - as am prone to rash predictions, ( ) but who was it that time..?! I always thought (and still do!) that Buzz should've been World Champ but surely I never described him as young!!

Gosh..: - that is indeed strange..! Maybe coz they staged a round of the GB Youth champs late on last season..? I've certainly not heard anything..

I'm sure Edward Kennett opted not to enter the QRs a few years back. And before I get all the predictable comments, to me the lack of real progress on the world scene of a great talent like Eddie is a classic example of the malaise the 'closed shop' system of the GP (8 to 11 riders only have to compete with 4-8 others for their guaranteed place in the following year) has caused to our World Championship.. Yes I believe there IS young talent out there to make for an excellent series.. So throw the balls up in the air by making qualification for 2012 open to ALL. In other words start year with qualifiers and then move onto a GP series comprising those who've qualified from a fully open process IN THE SAMME YEAR - not there historically... That's the only way to restore confidence in the championship and give a fairer route for those trying to get in to have a chance..