Grachan

Ken. Is the Oxford and Swindon footage from Steve Roberts or is it different footage. I know he had some Swindon v Oxford footage although I think it was from 1973. I remember Swindon v Oxford 1974. Oxford turned us over 32-46, those buggers.

I always remember the Crewe track record being the one in the Guinness Book of Records in the 70s as the fastest rider in the UK and the track record being held by Barry Meeks - who I'd never heard of. Ccan't help any more than that though.

No problem. Sorry I can't help with any of the others.

No, it was a classic moment. It was totally obvious and everyone already knew he as going to ride for Long Eaton the following year. Bought howls of laughter from the crowd.

I wonder if Richard Hellsen will recall his last race for Swindon, when he needed less than 2 points for his average to be below 6 and enable him to drop down to the NL. There he was, happily cruising around in third, when one of the riders in front had an ef on the last lap. Cue comedy last bend cock up, where he was surprisingly passed and still finished in third place.

Oh yeah! I missed that bit.

I'm not sure we'd be able to do that. You watch the films on something called a 'Steenback Table Viewer'. I don't know exactly what that is, but it seems to me that you'd have to watch them individually. http://www.bfi.org.uk/nftva/access/rvs.html

Let me guess. Tony Davey?

You weren't supposed to click on the links, guys!!!

I thought I'd enquire with the British Film Institute about the availability the film. I've just received this reply: Unfortunately Money For Speed is not available for hire or purchase on video/DVD. Any DVD or video title that is currently available to buy in Britain can usually be ordered directly through a good retailer - on the high street, by mail order, or via the internet. Internet-based retail sites often boast very extensive catalogues of available titles and have listings that are usually searchable by actor, director or genre, as well as by title. Try the Film Links Gateway on our website - www.bfi.org.uk/gateway/categories/videodvd/ - for links to a selection of browsable websites, including some also offering titles to rent. Many films, particularly older titles, will never have been released on DVD or video in Britain. Other films will have been released at one time, but will have since been deleted from stock and will therefore not be available to purchase. Unavailable titles If a DVD/video cannot be supplied by a retailer, or is not currently on release, you will probably not be able to purchase a copy. Copies of titles that have recently been deleted by distributors may sometimes still be found for hire in rental outlets or via public libraries. If you wish to view a particular film or television title that you cannot obtain on DVD/video, the BFI National Archive holds viewing copies of a large range of material for research purposes (please note that we cannot provide copies). We do hold a French dubbed version and German subtitled version. The latter, the longest copy acquired, is still incomplete by approx. 16 minutes.Viewings are made by appointment with the archive, and are charged at an hourly rate. See details of the Research Viewing service on our website at www.bfi.org.uk/nftva/access/rvs.html. Yours sincerely, Information Services BFI National Library and BFI National Archive BFI, 21 Stephen Street, London W1T 1LN tel. +44 (0)20 7255 1444, fax. +44 (0)20 7436 0165 contact us at www.bfi.org.uk/ask with your film and television queries, or telephone +44 (0)20 7255 1444 and ask for Information (Mon to Fri, 10am-1pm & 2pm- 5pm).

Try putting 'Ginger Lees' in Google and see what it comes up with!

I know David Lean was involved in it. There is a website with a few clips, but you have to be a registered library/school to watch them and I couldn't. http://www.screenonline.org.uk/film/id/516270/index.html http://www.britishpictures.com/arch_m4.html I did try and track down a copy once, but gave up in the end as I just got sent on a wild goose chase.

Hardly surprising looking at some of the old boys in those line-ups. Are you sure it wasn't Phil Crump?

Scott is British number one, but to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if Chris Harris is better than Scott by the middle of next season. If Scott failing to qualify means only having one British rider in the GP then I'd rather see Harris get it.

Sky Sports Xtra at 6pm.

http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll...e=gary+havelock

I didn't forget them as I have no idea about the actual teams. I just got them out of Speedway Star match reports and that was their team against Luxo Stars (now that team DOES look strong). Crump (& Ruud) may be in the side but they weren't riding on that occasion. Where was Crump on Sept 5? He was riding for Belle Vue on Sept 6.

What's your point? That's obviously because Scott Nicholls had a bad meeting. What are you saying? Scott Nicholls is a 2 point rider in Poland? I very much doubt it. It's so easy to pick out some individual score as if it makes some claim to make that league stronger. How many did Neils Kristian Iversen score for Peterborough last week? What's that you say? 4 points? Just one from his last three rides? How many did hot Polish prospect Janusz Kolodjiez score at Belle Vue last night? It's just selective scores and proves nothing. People just seem to want to look for a reason to say the EL is rubbish, when it doesn't seem any worse than the others to me. As for the rest of the Rybnik side, I don't follow the Polish League so I'm getting these teams from Speedway Star match reports. That was their team against Torun (Torun being: Zabik, Miedzinski, Jagus, B Pedersen, Slabon, Stachowiak and Wisniewski - I wonder how well they would do in the EL?). Gafurov and Smolinski are doing pretty well in El. Never heard of the others. What are you saying? Does having a squad including those 5 riders suddenly make for a massively strong line up then?

Alright then. Suppose top of the Swedish League VMS Edit were in the Elite League. Jarek Hampel 7.50 Rune Holta 7.50 Lee Richardson 6.54 Piotr Paluch 4.00 Peter Ljung (!!) 4.5ish?? Thomas H Jonasson 4.00 Rafal Trojanowski 4.00 Niklas Larsson 4.00 Thats approx 42.04 for 8 riders! Take out one of the various unknown 4 pointers and they are on around 38 points. How is that stronger than an EL team? Whata about Rospiggarna? Three Reading riders in their team - Hancock, Kolodjiez and McGowan. Compare the rest of the teams: Reading: Zagar, Gjedde, Smith, Simota Rospiggarna: Zabik, Davidsson, Chris Slabon, Andreas Messing, David Hillborg. I'd say Reading look stronger in that department. And so it goes on. Do you want me to write down the Bydgoszcz team from last week's Speedway Star? Yes there are some stronger teams in those leagues, but there are also weaker teams. At the end of the day the leagues are probably of similar strength, but the EL teams are more evenly balanced.

Easy to quote the Champions though, isn't it? In the same league you also have Rybnik. Chris Harris Roman Provazhny Patryk Pawlasczyk Roman Chromik Wojiech Druchniak Slawomir Pyszny Michel Mitko. Haven't even heard of 5 of them so can't make a serious judgement, but on face value that team looks worse than Arena Essex. It all depends what team you choose to mention. How about Vargarna in the Swedish Elite? Adam Shields Niklas Klingberg Krzysztof Buczkowski Joe Screen Andreas Bergstrom Daniel Nermark Viktor Bergstrom Leigh Lanham. Does anyone think these teams are stronger than British Elite League sides?

Jonas Davidsson. Proof that the Swedish League is weaker than the UK. If you want. It's a pointless argument.

I'd say something was seriously wrong 5 years ago. There were not enough teams and sides were totally unbalanced with should-be heatleaders riding as second strings. I'd say it was a weaker league then, even if there were more top riders in individual teams. Also, riders who would be heatleaders in the PL tend to be reserves in the EL - eg Mads Korneliussen, Richard Hall, Magnus Karlsson. Either that or they have moved into the top 5 and are struggling - eg Ostergaard and also Christian Hefenbrock, who would be a top liner in the PL and is now struggling after moving into Wolves' top 5. A lot of things effect average of riders - eg race format, variety of different shape tracks, number of teams in the league etc. I don't think you could say that any league is weaker or stronger than another.

7.30 SS Xtra

Looking at the Swindon v Sheffield programme I mentioned earlier, Carl Glover had 2 R/R rides for the absent Arnold Haley and scored 1 point from 6 rides! Even though riders could have a maximum of 8 (or is it 9?) rides, the score sheet only had space for 6 rides, so maybe that's just as well.

Coincidentally I commented on the R/R rules from 1976 just yesterday in another thread. This was the R/R and guest rule in 1976, paraphrased from a Swindon v Sheffield programme. If the no 1 is out, then any other rider can have a maximum of 3 of his rides as R/R. If the no 2 is out, then the no 1 can have one of his rides and the remaining riders can have a maximum of 3 of his rides. If the no 3 is out, then the no 1 can't have any of his rides, the number 2 can have one of his rides and any other rider can have 3 of his rides. If the no 1 and no 2 are both out then the remaining riders can have a maximum of 3 R/R rides. If the no 1 and no 3 are out, the no 2 can replace the no 1 3 times or the no 3 once and the no 1 twice. All other riders can have 3 replacement rides. If 3 riders out of the top 5 are absent, a guest may be used for the highest average absentee and, if out of the 3 riders absent, one of the other heatleaders is out, rider replacement can also be used. I remember Finn Thompsen getting 21 from 8 rides at Swindon that year. I think they only had this rule for that season. Fancy that. Speedway changing the rules. Swindon won 53-25 by the way! And Martin Ashby beat Tommy Jansson 2-0 in the Golden Helmet.