BWitcher

Precisely. Lets also not forget that the 'one rider not there on merit' is the No 1 rider for Wolverhampton. Freddie Lindgren is not. He has a far bigger case for being there than Sczakiel did in 1973.

I always love posters like WK.. Here he tells us how it's the undpredictability of it that makes speedway what it is. Oh the beauty of Speedway that a rider like Jerzy Sczakiel could become World Champion when everyone knew he wasn't the best in the world.... But.. lo and behold should the team who doesn't finish top of the league win the play-offs, no longer does undpredictablity make speedway what it is... No wonder is it the beauty of speedway. All of a sudden its the biggest sporting debacle in history!

Aye, but Noaksey, when was the last time you saw Nermark race without a racejacket? Its all changed now.. previous form is out the window!

So the big news out of the talk-in is No Racejackets in 2013. I can only see the sport kicking on from here and going from strength to strength. Future generations will look back at this historic decision as the moment speedways fortunes were turned.

Not really Gemini. If Sky don't renew their contract, next season they will be begging Leicester to join.

What does it say as I won't get mine till tomorrow? Edited to add, seen it on other thread now. Great idea, poorly implemented.

So what did Proctor do wrong last season exactly? Increased his average and did his job. It was NOT his fault that other members of the team didn't perform. Namely Lindgren, Klindt and the reserves. Woffinden, Proctor and Wells all did fine. The argument for Klindt's return is he is sitting on an average which he can increase with ease by a pt, especially riding in a less pressurised position. However, a change of track may well be better for him to rebuild confidence. It beggers belief why we would want to consider a cheat and a complete gating tart ahead of a Wolves man through and through, who rides willingly through the pain barrier for the club, pulls match winning/league title winning rides out of the bag when it matters, brings fun and an atmosphere to the team and the fans and inspires and has the full respect of every single one of his team mates.

Spot on. Under a 42.5 pts limit its not as vital for all the riders to be increasing their averages. You need stability. Just as Graham Jones used to in years gone by, Adam would provide that in the heart of the team. In the meetings I went to last season at Monmore, the place was dead. Lets get some fun and atmosphere back, not only in the team but on the terraces. The two can rub off on each other. Fred Tai Adam They're the rock I would build the team around. Ricky Wells, he deserves to be back based upon the progress made last year. It does worry me a tad that he can do so well again, especially in a potentially stronger league and riding the whole year in the main body of the team? However, I think he is worth his place. That would leave 3 places, as Superguest says, Jacob should be a must as he showed flashes of excellent form and on a low average is a no brainer. IF TNT's latest hero, Mikkel Michelsen was available he should be snapped up to partner Jacob at reserve. Not sure what that would leave for the remaining spot in the team and whether its a case of slotting Proctor or Klindt in at No 2, or if more pts available looking at someone else. If Michelsen is a success and Wells has any early season struggles, at least it would mean we should always have a strong reserve all season long, with an improving 2nd reserve in Jacob, something we have been lacking for some time.. even in 2009.

?? Based on? On a lower pts limit would have agreed. In this format, a solid, experienced rider in the middle of the team is perfect. He brings a stabilising influence to the team. I still remember talking with Nicolai Klindt at the end of the 2009 season when discussing the team for the following year, he stated how vitally important it was that we had either PK or Adam in the team. An older, wiser head, who is Wolves through and through is what the team needs right now in my opinion. Also his average is now a little lower after his spell at Belle Vue, around 6.5 I believe which I think is manageable. 6.92 as it was, yes tad high.

Thank the lord. 42.50 gives us the opportunity to bring back Skornicki. Bring some balance to the middle order, a calming influence on the team and an inpirational rider who can pull it out of the bag when it really matters... AND bring some entertainment back.

Incorrect as ever Steve. All I, and others, ever said about David Howe was, great second string.. not a heat leader. We were right, you were woefully wrong. Move on. The situation with Nicolai is the same. Riding at no 2 on a sub 6pt average, he's a bargain. Should season end he be on 6.7, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to include him the following year.

Such is speedway... however no it isn't the same team tbh. Aspgren would be riding at reserve with a seasons experience under his belt (unlike last year thrown to the dogs at no 2). Thorssell has already shown he can score pts at no 7, which is a significant upgrade on Sowka.. again, has some experience under his belt. Lindgren had a bad year last year by his standards and will surely do better. Woffinden to remain as is, although he is still improving so may be more to come, particularly away from home. Wells/Proctor to remain as is, steady pts scorers in the middle of the team. Proctor if doubling up would be riding with confidence. Klindt at No 2 would be very strong and likely to add a pt back to his average. Less pressure in that role. Schlein, if he stays clear of injury is also more than capable of adding at least a pt to his average, maybe more as not riding at No 1. We won't know till the teams are formed. One things for sure, if the door isn't closed on the 4.00 foreigner than Poole will be walking it again if they have Pawlicki junior.

Agreed, would be a very solid team TNT. Some will no doubt not like the inclusion of Klindt. However, at this stage in his career he reminds me of David Howe. A no no to line up as a heat leader, but a definate yes to line up as a 2nd string.

You've got to love threads like this. Constantly we hear how great the PL is, how wonderful the product is, how marvelous the variety is, how fantastic the tracks are, how amazing the racing is. All these PL clubs must be racing in front of packed out crowds and the promoters making a fortune!

The name of the website might cause distress to some, perhaps Gary should consider changing it. There is nothing that needs spelling out. This is a speedway forum. The thread is about a speedway rider. His name is Gary Havelock. The thread is titled.. Gary Havelock. Anyone who draws any conclusions from seeing a name has problems.

Why? Its a thread about Gary Havelock, so I'd suggest the title is quite valid.

No need for you to say anything else HT. Riders do not normally go straight when they are yet to exit the corner, they are drifting out. Its why riders hate it when someone turns 'left' on them. I do totally agree with you regarding the 'need' to exclude someone though.

21CH, Thankyou for a very concise accurate summing up of the whole incident. Its pretty much what I have been trying to explain also. Unfortunately its apparent that most people are looking at the one piece of footage, which is the final moment of the crash from the head on angle, which does not show the full story. If a rider was on the inside and changed lines by such an amount and ended up out near the fence where there was a collision with a rider, there would be a massive outcry.. Incidentally, I too have nothing against Stefan, in fact we get on very well.

Not really valid when the rider behind you is 5 metres to your right on the outside of the bend. Too much emphasis is being placed on the 'looking back'. Of course he is going to look to see where Nielsen is. What I am sure he didn't expect is for Nielsen to have appeared so close, cutting across his line. Its simple when one rider is going straight, the other is going to the right, there is going to be a collision. In real time, Roynon would barely have even had chance to process what he saw on his 'look' before the collision happened.

Correct, not an excludable offence though is it? The point I am trying to make is, there is absolutely nothing Roynon could have done to avoid that crash. His natural line is to drift out of the corner, Stefans natural line having cutback was to be going much straighter. Having made that cutback Stefan couldn't go anywhere else as there was a rider to his outside. Roynon couldn't go anywhere else he was just riding his natural line on the inside. The only way Roynon could perhaps have even tried to avoid it was to try to turn very sharply, at that point of the bend it would have caused him to lock up/lose control, both of which cause the back wheel to go out further (especially given track conditions). Simply a racing incident. The rules of the sport dictate one rider has to be excluded, this time it was Adam. It could just as easily have gone the other way and Stefan would have a right to feel aggrieved. Is there an argument for a rule change to allow the referees the option of ordering a re-run and not exluding a rider if they deem neither was at fault? Or would that perhaps just give them an easy way out and cause even more problems?

No it isn't. Agree nothing will change, but then why have a forum if things can't be discussed?

This is the pertinent point here. Again I repeat what people are completely ignoring in all this, Nielsen makes a DRAMATIC change in line, he is next to the fence halfway round the corner, 1/4 of the bend later he is on the inside. People are claiming that Roynon tried to shut the door on Nielsen, the reality is quite the opposite, Nielsen changes line by the COMPLETE WIDTH OF THE BEND to try to close the door on Roynon. To do so that involves straightening up big time which means he is cutting across Roynon and cutting across the natural line of the bend. Had a rider on the inside moved out from the inside to the very outside of the bend in such dramatic fashion and collided with someone there would be an uproar. The reason the crash happened is Roynon looked and was no doubt highly surprised to see Nielsen coming across him at such an angle. The frontal tv shot doesn't show you enough footage to show Nielsen coming from out by the fence to swing across Roynon. There was absolutely no way Roynon could avoid what happened there. He hadn't changed his line, you don't hug the kerb coming onto the straight when you have rode the inside, especially at a fast track like Kings Lynn, you will always drift out of the corner. Roynon simply had nowhere to go and a collission was inevitable. All this constant talk of Roynon 'flicking' his back wheel at Nielsen.. that came about after the contact between them and as I say was inevitable when one rider is going one way, (moving to the right) and the other is going the other (moving to the left). Racing incident. Are you denying facts? You are simply looking at the last 0.1 seconds of the incident, events start a lot earlier than that. Watch the footage from the reverse and pause it halfway round the bend and see where Nielsen is. Then ask yourself just how he managed to end up tight to the inside 1/4 of the bend later. Now, you normally post very well HT, but please explain how Nielsen can run out of room when he has opted to move 10 yards to his left and Roynon is still right on the inside? In summary, before everyone jumps on this, I'm not saying Nielsen should have been excluded. Simply saying that a crash was inevitable in that situation as two riders were going in different directions. Complete and utter racing incident and its a shame that the rules of the sport dictate that one has to go. Certainly not black and white as some are portraying.

I love some speedway fans. Why would it be a joke? Is he being given extra pts? No. He's racing in the same meeting as the other riders and if he wins it, he has won it fair and square. At least he has turned up!

Desperately clutching at straws Steve.

You may need to adjust sound settings. Can hear it fine, but the commentary is only through 1 speaker of my 5 speaker setup. Correct. And the camera is in the correct position and you see the racing properly. Add in the excellent commentary and it puts Skys expensive coverage to shame.