liverpool chad

I don't think it's a strange representation of the events of heat 15 at all. I have not seen any video footage of the race and can only go off what my memory tells me. And this is that Kenny Carter, who was quite a handy gater, misses the gate and is trailing Dave Jessup. I think that if you remember correctly, thats what happens. Erik Gundersen, who was on fast equipment on that evening was lying in third. Erik Gundersen then passes Kenny Carter who is visibly losing power and eventually grinds to a stop. I think that if you remember correctly, thats what happens. My interpretation of the events is that Erik Gundersen who was flying on the said evening was passing Carter irrespective of any engine trouble. But even if Carter had finished second in heat 15 and then gone on to win his last race, which he duly did, that would of put him on 13pts, and 13pts means no world title. My inference of his engine "mysteriously" dying is that based on the evidence it was mysterious. I don't think up to that point i had ever seen Kenny Carter have a spluttering engine. Couple that with the fact that Kenny had Ivan Mauger in is corner, and Mauger was renowned for having strong engines and for not taking anything to chance, particularly in a big meeting, then i can only conclude that it was mysterious. Mysterious in that i would not of expected that to happen.

Kenny Carter never stood on top of a world championship podium in an individual event when the qualifiers from the British Final were joined by the best of the Americans, Scandinavians and Australasians. So YES i think we can accuse him of not stepping up to it in World Championships. We are talking about a rider who was lying either first or second in three, yes, three World Finals. But after the heat twelve interval he completly lost his focus. Wembley in 1981, he misses the gate and was lying third when his engine mysteriously died. Los Angeles in 1982 he misses the gate and was lying third when he chose the wrong option and ran out of room in his tussle with Bruce Penhall. Norden in 1983, he misses the gate and was lying third, Kenny, not being renowned from the back, settles for third and with it goes his last chance of becoming World champion. Now that's got nothing to do with being quote "desperately unlucky" it's more to do with someone who has a mental block and is lacking the trackcraft of a Collins, Olsen or Mauger when plan "A" backfires. Kenny Carter was lying third when he stopped at Wembley in '81.

I don't think Carter would of had any idea where Collins was going to come from, when Collins was at his peak (1977 season) The likes of Olsen, Mauger, Louis, Jessup and Ashby would regularly lead Collins for a lap or so with Collins riding inside then outside leading to them looking over there shoulders to see where he was, If they looked left Collins was going round the boards, if they looked right Collins was cutting back inside and he was gone. And i don't think Kenny Carter was any better around Hyde Road than any of the above mentioned riders, although he was good around there, as he was at most tracks. Kenny Carter, IMO never for-filled his potential. Be that due to his mental state, his injurys, his lack of respect to his fellow riders or a potent mix of all three, he never stepped up to the next level at the big world championship events. I would put him up there with the likes of Nigel and Eric Boocock, Martin Ashby, Gordon Kennett and Les Collins. But not in the same class as Peter Collins, Dave Jessup, Michael Lee and Mark Loram. And nowhere near the greatest ever Englishman, Liverpools very own Peter Craven With regard to another one of Liverpools sporting sons, Chris Pusey. Chris was a very good rider who was looking like he too could go all the way to the top. But he had a bad injury in the mid seventies and was just a pale shadow of his former self after that.

I only ever saw him ride at Sheffield, Halifax and the old Belle Vue. But he was fantastic around all three tracks, Some of his races with Tommy Roper, Ivan Mauger and Sorren Sjosten at Belle Vue were worth the admission fee alone! and at Halifax he would have some right ding dongs with Boocock and Alan Jay. But Sheffield was his stomping ground and he took some beating round there.

The greatest race that i ever saw was the run-off for the KO Cup at the old Belle Vue in 1973. Peter Collins had top scored for Belle Vue with 10 and Anders Michanek, if my memory serves me, had 12 for Reading. With the aggregate scores level after the two meetings both riders had a run off for the cup. Peter Collins had a broken hand, and had both the clutch and throttle on the right hand side of his handlebars. Anders Michanek was riding Bernie Leigh's bike, so both riders had their own disadvantages. What followed was the greatest four laps that i have ever seen! Both riders passed each other going into and coming out of every bend for the full four laps and neither one got anymore than a bike length in front of the other. Going into the last bend michanek took the lead and seemed to be blocking Collins on the exit of the pits bend, but Collins cut back and beat him on the line by a wheel, and no more!!! Other good races were some of the ones between Peter Craven and Ove Fundin, Peter Craven and Barry Briggs, Jim Airey and Soren Sjosten always had belters at Sheffield. Sverre Harrfeldt and Dave Younghusband had a titanic battle at Halifax in the late sixtes with both riders passing and repassing for four laps and as they came down the home straight it looked like Harrefeldt had won it, but this being Halifax the refferee gave it to Younghusband!

Hancock was 10/1 with William Hills! I could'nt believe it Good nights racing and well done to Greg, who has one hand on the trophy now.

I remember Belle Vue vs Sheffield being snowed off in April!!! that would of been around 1978 or 79. Saw a few Golden Helmet race's at the Shay. I remember Peter Collins beating Ian Cartwright 2-0 and breaking Eric Boococks track record in the process. I also remember Kenny Carter and Gorden Kennett ride in the slowest race i ever saw, both riders suffering from spluttering engines in the third race between the two of them, Carter winning 2-1. And the one everyone seems to talk about, when Michael Lee beat Kenny Carter 2-0. He won both races by half a lap, broke the track record and then beat Carter again (twice i think) in the league meeting. Lee was on fire that night and his only defeat came from John Louis. If i remember rightly, Michael Lee's average around Halifax was about 03:50! which makes the result al the more spectacular.

I hope so! I know the racing is quite dull, but the weekend as a whole is not to be missed! Some excellent restaurants, good bars, beautiful architecture and a City that is quite easy to explore on foot, although the walk up the hill to the castle sometimes takes its toll on some! The journey back to town on the tram, after the meeting always reminds me of standing on the Gwladys Street end in the 1960's! GP could be better but the weekend is always a good one.

I seem to remember when the helmet was raced for after each meeting that the hoder was participating in, Ole Olsen made it his own personal property in the early seventies when he went somthing like 19 or 20 match races undefeated in 1970 or 71. He did it again in 1973 when he went about 15 or 16 match races undefeated until Reidar Eide beat him one night. Later on in the decade Peter Collins made the helmet his own by going almost TWO full seasons undefeated. He won the helmet late in the 1977 season, went the entire 1978 season unbeaten and then went through to the end of the 1979 season before Phil Crump beat him 2-1 at Hyde Road and then took the helmet off him by winning at the Abbey Stadium. Phil Crump was flying that night at Belle Vue, after losing the first race Crumpy then won the next two races and then went through the league meeting with a 15pt maximum in a 39-39 draw.

Yes your spot on. After Gresham had had a hard ride with a Belle Vue rider, Could of been one of the Carr brothers, the then Belle Vue manager, Ian Thomas, hit Steve Gresham on his way back to the pits, which resulted in the two of them trading blows with each other. Later on in the meeting an argument started in the Reading area of the Belle Vue pits and Steve Gresham seemed to be knocking the hell out of Bobby Schwartz! it ended up with reading not riding in the last 3 or 4 heats. Strange thing is, nobody seemed to be that bothered about Bobby Schwartz who looked like he had gone 12 rounds with Roberto Duran when the two of them had finished.

I have to disagree with you regarding the track, At this level of racing when you have four young inexperienced riders who have more enthusiasm than track craft (and i don't mean to be derogatory with this remark) you can not let them loose on a track like that and not expect someone to have an accident. There was simply to much dirt in places that had not been bedded down and when you then add riders with limited craft, then you are asking for trouble. I echo your sentiments regarding Tom Perry who seemed to fair better than most in his opening ride, probably due to his extensive grasstrak upbringing. As for your, what i would regard juvenile comment about the Dudley Captain, Jon Armstrong. When a rider of his experience at this level of racing says that the track is in his opinion, Dangerous, then his younger team mates would do well to take his advice! As it was, his advice was spot on, the track was to dangerous for speedway at this or IMO any level. You even said it yourself I've seen the great Ole Olsen kick up a right fuss about tracks that were nowhere near half as bad as Belle Vue's was tonight. He would not of turned a wheel had he been there tonight!

Just got home from tonights meeting. All i can say is, what a complete inept display of track preparation from the Belle Vue track staff! What a complete inept display of officiating from tonights referee and what a complete lack of respect for the safety of some of this countries up and coming riders of tomorrow by some of BVs management and riders. It was clear from the off that the track was not fit for racing at any level, let alone this one. Should of been called off after heat 4 IMO when it was clear the riders were having trouble staying upright. Almost left after heat 7s farcical goings on, but only stayed due to being in converstion with someone who i had not seen for a while. Left after the next heat as i was convinced someone would be seriously injured. Thats the first time in over 55 years of watching speedway that i have both left before the end and been convinced someone would end there career due to theconditions of the track! This league has been set up to help young riders progress to the next level of their career. But tonight did nothing to help anyone progress their careers! A very sad night for British Speedway!- IT REALY WAS THAT BAD.

Youv'e got to be saying that with tongue in cheek! Either that or you believe to much of the drivel the Mr Ferguson spouts! Rugby League does no more damage to Old Trafford than a football match does! And i have seen enough of both at OT to know this. As for the rest of your comments. Well the best that can be said is, you are entitled to your own opinion. But Phil Rising is probably on the money with his assessment of your comments.

AGREED!!! To be honest. Other than Chris Harris not a single one of them is good enough at this level. But good luck to them anyway.

You should try getting out more, steve!

Good post, falcace. At last we agree on something!

It's a bit harsh, that is! I'll tell you what, i'd of retired years ago if someone had offered me a megabucks deal to star in some american series set in sunny California! Dudley Wood or Hollywood? No contest really is it? speedway or no speedway, i think most of us would pick Hollywood, seven days a week!

Sorry 'Crooner' Yes my response was a bit over the top and could be regarded as arrogant. But i was responding to the person who posted that rubbish that iv'e highlighted and underlined above. When a working man who'd never claimed for anything in his entire life and nor has his wife or three children, reads what some idiot has presumed about him, well it just p-ed me off a little after catching me on a bad day! As for your comments regarding Stoke speedway, Yes you make some interesting points regarding the marketing of the club (or in this case, lack of it!) I think most promoters suffer from poor marketing skills, and again most marketing tools cost money, so the promoters stay well clear. There are exceptions to the rule, but speedway itself suffers tremendously from poor marketing and negative press. Anyhow, i wish Stoke all the best in the NL, and i for one will still go as often as i always have done, 10-11 times a season. Regards, LC.

Excellent post. At last a bit of input into why the club have dropped down into the NL. As one or two others and myself said, Stoke dropping down to the NL can only be for financial reasons. The current promoter has got his hands tied somewhat, with the fact that the stadium does not possess good basic facilities, so his paying customers can't watch what he has to offer in comfort, and he can't attract any new paying costumers due to the same problem. But the current promoter doesn't own the stadium, so theres next to nothing that he can do about that! The current promoter isn't a multi millionare, so he can't afford to pay top money to attract the top riders. So Stoke continue to flounder in the lower reaches of the second division. But because the promoter does not have money to throw about, theres next to nothing he can do about that! The only thing the current promoter can do, is to tell the Stoke fans that this next season we will assemble a squad thats going to be right up there at the top! Because if he say's "this next season i can only afford second string riders at best and a coupe of untested foreigners" then thats not good PR or good advertising of what he has to sell. Therefore the only thing he can fully control is the spin on things. But to be fair, once you see what sort of team he has assembled, then you will make up your own mind whether or not the team is capable of being right up there. and once it's happened once or twice, i would take their pre season predictions with a pinch of salt. I think your spot on about the track being a disadvantage to Stoke aswell. IMO it's one of the best in the country, and therefore one which most riders can adjust to quite quickly. Belle Vue always had a similar problem at Hyde Road, but to be far always had a decent team to compliment their surroundings. Oh, the provincial league days Great times, although when Liverpool reappeared in the early sixties i seem to remember getting beat most weeks Stoke had some really good seasons in the provincial era, finishing second a couple of times if i recall correctly. Glad to see your introducing the next generation to the sport. Taken my grandkids to speedway, but alas its not their thing! My youngest grandson likes it though, but he lives in Sydney!

Stooge, You won't bite, because you don't know what's gone on, or is going to go on at Stoke. It's my guess that you just don't know all the facts. Well what a juvenile comment your second one is!!! (you paying for my up keep through your taxes) If you only knew the half of it! Yes i am retired. I started work in 1963 never had a day off until starting my own company in 1976 which was sold earlier this year for a tidy sum. I doubt whether if you worked until you are 100 you will pay anywhere near the taxes that i have had to pay in my working life, in fact id bet that in the last 10 years iv'e payed more in taxes than you will earn in the next 50 years. So young man, it's me and me only that is paying for my up keep, one i have no doubt you couldn't afford anyway. And as for your last comment, well! Iv'e put my money through the turnstiles, no question about that, having been to at least 3 sometimes 4 meetings a week since the mid 1970's up until the end of this last season. before that i was going to at least 1 sometimes 2 meetings a week from the early 1950's( as a child) up until the mid 1970's. And traveling vast amounts of miles in the process. Thats one hell of alot of meetings when you tot it all up, well it's considerably more than your quota of "all the home meetings and a couple of away ones! So for all your talk, you still can't give one single piece of evidence that dropping into the NL is anything other than a cost cutting exercise critical to the future of speedway in Stoke. I know you are upset by the news of the drop, and i appreciate that emotions are a bit raw at the moment, especially for someone such as yourself, who has given his hard earned time and effort for Stoke speedway. But what ever way you box it up, some speedway is always better than no speedway, as i well know. Whenever i travel back to Liverpool to see friends or go to Goodison Park, it still hurts if i go down Presscot Rd and see where the stadium used to be, and what it has become. So if i where in your shoes, i would give next season a go, as i'm sure you will. From what iv'e seen, the NL as a spectacle is as good as any of the other two leagues. Regards LC.

You could be right, vog, but i suspect your not! And the reason i have my doubt's is that, If you have information regarding a sensitive issue, and you don't want to mention the information, then you stay well clear of any debate regarding the issue in question! Good afternoon "shiffa", I don't mean to come across as argumentative, but if someone starts to complain about something without stating any of the facts, then their argument doesn't hold any water! It would be like me complaining about the running of Everton FC, and why are we still playing in a stadium that was hardly fit for the last century, and why are we not putting out teams that can compete for the title, etc. etc. But then when asked why these problems are occurring, i can't give out one single reason why! If your referring to the "potterspower" forum. Then the reason i don't get argumentative (as you call it) on there, is because, i don't go on there!!!

Come on Stooge i'm still waiting for you to enlighten everyone! Obviously i'm not struggling, as i'm posting more than you are on the subject. And what i wont take, or can get my head around, is, someone who is preaching about, what the current Stoke promoter is doing thats so awful, but can not back his/her argument up with hard facts, and HE/SHE can't tell us what the solution is! And your opinion isn't carrying much weight at all, if you can't be specific about whats so wrong with the current set up. P.S., You don't have to go every week for your opinion to carry any weight, It's a bit like me saying, Audley Harrison was completely outclassed by David Haye when they met last week! But my opinion doesn't have much weight, because, i'll tell you, I wasn't there!... But i bet i'm not far off the mark!!!

Thats a fair point. All PL teams would only have to travel to Plymouth a couple of times a season at the most, whereas Plymouth would have to travel the long distances every away meeting! So if it was denied because of it's location, then that is quite un-just.