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Posts posted by mikebv

  1. 33 minutes ago, JohnHyam said:

    What average attendances are anticipated for the Oxford revival season? As I recall - and stand to be corrected - they averaged 700 when the sport last took place there. And sadly, national interest in speedway has further declined since those days and it appears continues  to do so year-on-year.

    2nd Division teams seem to do "ok" with 700 or so...

    And in Oxford's case you would like to think that the early meetings in particular will be a huge % amount higher than 700 given they are relaunching.. 

    Lots of local publicity too initially, so hopefully these early crowds will help pay for a successful season overall as the crowd levels settle down and stabilise to its true level..

    And even (if it is "just 700"), it's more than would be watching the sport if they hadn't have come back...

    20 home matches or so and that is 14000 more clicks at the turnstiles for the sport..

    • Like 1

  2. 12 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

    IIRC in the 2010 season every team had a number 8 they could declare at any time for a meeting in place of any rider. Coventry's was Aaron Summers and I suspect they used this RULE to make sure Pawlicki didn't ride enough meetings to move up before the Play Offs. A masterstroke to be fair, but a rule not thought out properly at the same time (who knew?!) 


    They have had plenty of this over the years haven't they?...

    Bless them... :D

  3. 3 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

    I'm sure that's what people like about you on here, the pleasant way you come across :)

    I've got a suggestion to increase income, get rid of the out of date programme which is overpriced and in many cases poor and provide something on a digital platform and/or a phone app which is much more accessible and get with the times. Done properly and everyone could be a winner.

    Careful now..

    We don't want innovative Ideas..... :D

    • Like 2

  4. 51 minutes ago, Shrub said:

    Lucky for 13 years?! They won three league titles and 4 KO Cups. And most seasons if they weren't there they were thereabouts. In '76 when they won the double they lost No.1 John Louis for six weeks due to injury and No 3 Tony Davey also missed a couple at the time due to a workshop accident yet operated R/R and double R/R instead of guests. Louis was top of the averages so in theory could have used any one as a guest. Berry took a stand as he could see the damage that guests did to the credibility of the sport.

    It can be done.



    And that was back in the days of No1 riders running 11 point averages and teams having 2 point reserves...

    A huge gap between top and bottom, and even though BP's counted then, the No1's generally didn't pick many up..

    Now we have No1's running less than 7.5 point averages and 4.5 point reserves so much closer in standard, meaning even less need to replace your No1 with a guest..

    Just use a better RR system, which gives riders more chance to earn money and keeps the team ethos...

    And, more importantly, keeps the sport credible...


    • Like 2

  5. 1 hour ago, Trees said:

    But every promotion is surely striving for more than hard-core? 

    We all know r/r works well most of the time if you have a balanced side, it's when you have more than one rider injured that it's more difficult ....

    As mentioned..

    Cut the number of riders per team and you have surplus...

    Lose a heat leader from every team for example...

    Those who only ride over here get to double up so have priority for a place, and given they are just riding over here you can plan in fixtures easily...

    The rest who currently ride in three and four countries become the adhoc temporary replacements, no doubt happy to get back over here and earn a few quid to top up their other contracts..

    Or run a fit for purpose RR system...

    Guests are just too easy to use. That is the real reason we have them...

    And of course it means you can bring in ringers at the same time... ;)




  6. 5 hours ago, AndyPresley said:

    I have no issue with people's ideas, but constantly bashing British Speedway and claiming to have easy answers to a very complex and difficult problem is different. Criticism should be constructive for it to be taken seriously, not one sided and unbalanced.

    I would suggest that this forum is very balanced and full of fans who have lived through the malaise of the sport in this country, with many offering up some, hopefully, constructive ideas, whilst recognising that years of poor leadership cannot be sorted quickly..

    With many putting out Ideas to try and improve the obviously glaring issues that led many on here to stop attending, but who still follow the sport closely, (with that gap left by them in the stadiums not getting filled by anyone else to replace their admission money)..

    However, if the ideas are "Barry White" then really who gives a toss...?

    It's a forum. For debate...

    Frequented by a few people who follow a sport frequented by circa 0.03% of the population each week..

    I am sure Promoters do "all they can" but sadly many of them have a skill set not aligned to the "entertainment industry" and that is definitely an industry that requires certain specialist skills to firstly attract, then maintain a customer base..

    It is over 30 years since I did my marketing degree, but many premises still remain...

    Sell yourself uniquely to create lots of interest. Try to exceed expectations, but if you cannot do this, at least meet them. Build constant communication with your customers to build long term loyalty. And, listen to them when they give you feedback, both good and bad,  (but especially the bad), as you can then improve your offer to them...

    Bottom line though, is if people aren't coming then even letting them in for nothing can be a huge plus for you if you plan well, and deliver a great night when they come..

    The sport suffers massively from so much working in splendid isolation rather than collectively working together. 

    A national marketing initiative would carry far more clout and cut through than each doing their own thing..

    Sadly, Speedway seems to be a huge "secret" in the UK, and unless those in charge of it start to work collectively to drive the sport generically, rather than individually, it will probably remain that way.. 

    A truly staggering amount of money (in a sport watched by so few), will get paid in 2022 to riders, riders who with the greatest of respect will put hardly one extra bum on a seat, yet nothing like this amount of money would be spent on advertising and 2022 marketing techniques...

    Balance that equation and it may help the long term future...

    However, as I say it's only a forum...

    • Like 5

  7. 5 minutes ago, Tinker said:

    Can't believe BV are struggling to field a team with the set up/track/history/reputation they have. You would think most riders would relish having the NSS as their home track.

    Must be all down to money?

    Maybe also down to having not much home advantage too?

    Most riders make their money by their home scores and the Aces seldom seem to "smash" teams at the NSS..

    I would imagine also with the 'need for speed' being so prevalent there that engine maintenance costs could be higher than at some other tracks given the revs needed to compete.. 

    It makes for cracking entertainment but we fans dont pay the (ridiculous) bills to race...

  8. 50 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said:

    So it's £260 for a season ticket,  which includes a free £3 programme. That's for 13 home matches 


    If u was to pay on the day it would cost me £260. 


    No saving what so ever. Only saving a programme but who buys them anymore 




    Never understood why clubs do the 'free programme' thing..

    The Aces could knock £39 off the season ticket price. (Hell let's go mad and knock forty quid off), and the ST then becomes more worthwhile buying... 

    And they still may sell 13 programmes..

    Presume at cost price for them it isnt really three quid so they absorb it, whilst making if sound like a good offer..

    But it isn't much of an offer to the many who dont ever buy a programme, so defeats the object..

    Edit: Should have added "cant understand why they do ST's full stop anymore". The amount they sell cant make much difference to cash flow surely? 

    All it does do though is negate opportunities to do some "special offers" throughout the season...

  9. 1 hour ago, Trees said:

    Were they just lucky?  How often did they win the league in that time?  

    Who cares?

    The biggest issue of all for the sport (in the UK), is that "winning a league" has zero kudos, no large financial rewards, nor any meaningful media coverage...

    All down to its lack of credibility...

    With that as your starting point, it has no chance..

    Indeed, any professional sport that ran with such a laughable system would get treated exactly the same...

    If you havent got enough riders to run seven man teams, then dont..

    Instead, change the team structure to suit the supply...

    Eg  Take two riders out from each team so you have a surplus to replace injuries and fixture clashes.. 

    Eg Run with. Two heat leaders, two second strings, one reserve..

    Riders obviously need "two jobs" it would appear, so those who ride abroad for one club can ride also for one club over here, riders who already ride for two clubs abroad dont get contracted to ride over here..

    All these riders are then on stand by to temporarily replace missing riders in either league if their average fits..

    Those lads not riding abroad then double up over here...

    There are ways you could try and change the system and make winning in UK Speedway actually mean something..

    It is clear that those in charge choose not to...

    And quite correctly they have the right to do so, as they put their money in..

    But by the same token, no one should then be surprised that the sport gets such a minimal following, with hardly any public awareness and media coverage, and cannot get "big brands" to associate itself with it...

    Poland know that they would be in exactly the same place as UK Speedway if it ran with our domestic operating model..

    Hence, they dont..


    • Like 5

  10. 3 hours ago, Tsunami said:

    And the ones that pay now, finding out that the kids running around get in for nothing, will soon get pissed off and stop going. Not exactly a good business plan is it.

    Back to another blackboard.


    It might cost you a whole £50 or so of takings such are the 1000's of teenagers who attend now....:D

    • Haha 1

  11. 59 minutes ago, Trees said:

    So you have 3 injuries, your number one, 3 and 4, you have a number 8 to use, is that it then, no guests? Or could each team nominate 2 unattached riders from a lower league and you have to use them against a top of the table team with no injuries. Foregone conclusion, fan turnout halved?

    The way to go?

    Very, very rarely do you have so many injuries, with, in the main, one rider missing at most.. 

    The main issue is that riders ride on so many nights that an injury on a Monday sees them missing Tuesday and maybe Wednesday..

    Then they are back again on Thursday to rinse and repeat..

    If they only rode in one division, once a week then they have seven days to improve their health, or provide the clubs with time to bring in a temp signing..

    Obviously the major stumbling block to the whole speedway operating model is the 2nd Division...

    All down to them wanting to be at a level higher than what the 2nd Division should be at..

    Which is a stepping stone between Div 3 and Div 1, or a "retirement home" for vastly experienced riders..

    The tail of the 2nd Div certainly wags the Div 1 dog...

    Using the same riders means two teams get impacted though injury, so two meetings then use credibility destroying guests...

    The clear issue is that to make ends meet (and be seen as a pro sportsman), riders have to race in both leagues, therefore the UK Speedway leaders slavishly follow the guest system because, quite frankly, it is easy to do..

    And boosts the riders income too..

    The sport needs a root and branch review as to how its own operating model undermines it's own standing amongst its peer sports and reduces its fan base..

    But, as we know, it will never happen.. 


    • Like 1

  12. 47 minutes ago, 1 valve said:

    Unfortunately your admission pricing model doesn't  make good business sense. 
    A family ticket at £20 for two adults and unlimited number of kids actually means adults at £10.00 each kids free. And absolutely no way would two adults (no kids) happily pay "full price" for tickets meaning that the actual admission price for adults would need to be £10.00
    Given that £10.00 would yield only £8.33 after Vat the promotion would need to attract double the number of adults just to make the same income if they charged for the normal going rate for adults and kids.
    Much better that the promotions charges something along the lines of full price for adults and allow 2 children per adult in for free and charge "young adults" between 16 & 18 half price.       

    The issue is that hardly any families go, so "special" targeted offers are needed.. 

    The 'die hard' middle aged (and older), people will still attend as they have shown week in week out..

    And never mind double amounts needed, to make it pay, you can have a million times no families attending, and you still have nothing...

    As for 16 to 18 year olds? Let them in too for nothing...

    These people dont attend, so expecting them to go somewhere and stand with your dad and grandad is pretty much a non starter for the vast majority of them..

    Teenagers hunt in packs with mates so let as many in as want to come..

    You are not losing a penny by having them there, and it might make the crowd seem bigger so give some atmosphere..

    And you will sell some burgers..

    And might, just might, get a few to take up following the sport later and pay to get in.. 

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1

  13. 14 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

    The big difference being that when attending McDonalds you know exactly what you are going to get and are in decent surroundings. 

    At speedway meetings that cannot always be guaranteed week after week

    Agreed, however, even Mcd's and other big business's have "bad days" when they let their customers down..

    Even if families dont return you havent lost anything only gained, as they are not going now...

    Energy Bill's will soon be going up by as much as 40% so that is even more of a hit to disposable income, which will push Speedway even further down the priority listing...

  14. 1 hour ago, Trees said:

    Because the BV rider is injured (it's a dangerous sport and to give fans value for money team strength is all important) and this guy is guesting ..... perfectly understandable!  Then the spiel goes speedway is nothing like any other team sport, it's not got the money to have 'reserves' of all qualities akin to football so guest riders for top men is the way it has to be organised otherwise the team with am injured rider would 100% lose, the fans wouldn't turn up for an uncompetitive meeting, it can't survive without fans, the club would shutdown!

    Just use a guest for the away leg.

    Or (all hypothetically obviously), as an example, if the Aces could use Tai for home meetings only, then you could run RR away and Fricke and Kurtz take all his rides.. 

    A highly competitive meeting I would suggest, with the best riders on show the most times, earning money that someone from another team would get if a guest was used, and keeping the "team spirit and ethos"..

    And many guests are not down to injury anyway but fixture clashes due to poor planning eg U21 Championships ran on league nights, fixtures being planned on FIM meeting practice nights or the meeting night itself, rearranging called off meetings knowing your Dane has to be in Denmark on the date you propose to run etc.. 

    You can't have any credibility using a guest system (for any reason). As you simply wont be taken seriously by media, big sponsors and fans.

    So, if you want to persist with it (and it is clear they do), then embrace it, and at least make it advantageous to help the sport grow..

    Winning at home is the overriding key to success (with success for many clubs not being measured in titles as "who really cares?" given the lack of any tangible rewards), but rather success is reaching the season end and opening again the next year...

    So facilitate some operating model that can inspire fans to attend to see some "superstars", and by using them only once a week it might become viable..

    Or carry on doing the same old/same old as this works so well doesnt it? 

  15. 20 minutes ago, uk_martin said:

    Yes they can, but parents are a savvy lot, if speedway as a product does not offer up value for money, they will do one of the plenty of other things that they can spend their money on to entertain their kids.

    A family ticket should be £20 to £25 tops, 2 adults and as many kids free as you want to bring...

    If nothing else, the promoters that own their own track will make on the coffee, burgers and maybe even a bit of memorabilia...

    These people are not there now so absolutely nothing to lose...

    And you dont need "repeat purchases"...

    Just keep targeting families to turn up and if some become regulars then great, but if lots just go once instead of being sat at home, you have still increased your revenue..

    The beauty of those with young kids especially is that their social circle is invariably those within the same situation, so word of mouth can also be a great 'marketing technique'...

    Huge businesses like McDonalds build their massively profitable kids party numbers by parents endorsing them to others.. 

    Amazing too, how many kids who attend these parties, then become regular customers as they get older..

    Who would have thought it worked like that..? :rolleyes:

    • Like 2

  16. 2 hours ago, Pinny said:

    Its up there though. 

    Imagine a newbie attending BV and Woffy scoring a max , then newbie going to Ipswich a week later and asking why Woffy isnt there. 

    “Because he can only be bothered to ride home matches”



    Imagine a newbie going to Ipswich a week later and finding that the Aces best rider that they had watched the week before at the NSS, was actually Ipswich's No1 rider... :D

  17. 54 minutes ago, Tinker said:

    Hi MikeBV

    My personal thoughts only but I think having a rider just doing your home meetings would be bad for team morale. Plus, I think fans would find it difficult to both identify and connect with the team. The way I see it, you have seven riders who are all part of your team both home and away. Hopefully, this creates a special bond between the riders as was demonstrated by Peterborough last year.

    I know the guest situation raises a lot of questions with supporters etc but if I was to tell my mates that one of BV's riders was only involved in home meetings they'd think it was pretty much ridiculous. 

    Get what you are saying, but also telling your mates that you can improve your own teams chances of winning at any given moment, by borrowing a better rider from a rival team may sound even more ridiculous.. :D

    For me, and many, many others, the sport doesnt have much credibility (in the UK), but can still be an excellent entertaining night out, and if you had a name which attracts if nothing else "lapsed fans" who recognise him, it would boost crowds by a large double digit % amount I would suggest..

    For those who still attend regularly the sport's "unique irregularities" are clearly accepted by them as "fine", so from a loss of customer base angle, whatever those who run the sport do is pretty much "bomb proof" so crowds will loyally remain...

    Getting newbies to attend regularly (in fact just getting them to become newbies by attending at all), is a major challenge, so getting the many lapsed tens of thousands of fans who still have an interest, and still follow the sport very closely, is vital...

    I would suggest that there are far more fans of the sport who dont attend regularly, than those who do, and these people will be more fans of the sport than any team in particular..

    In the UK "Team Speedway" is a bit of a misnomer with its context being stretched to it's most tenuous breaking point..

    Therefore. Having, for example, Nicki P riding for Wolves on a Monday, against the Aces, and Tai riding for the Aces on a Thursday against Wolves, would generate a fair few hundred extra through the turnstiles at both venues..

    Bottom line is that they would have a far greater impact on the sports' future growth than any fans being disgruntled by a bit of a "contrived" ruling..

    As, let's face it, it's not like there isnt enough of that going on already, so a bit more (but this time some "contrived rules" which positively impact, the sport), wouldnt raise too many eyebrows..

    Sad it wont happen and we will no doubt end up with more of the uninspiring  "same old, same old" next season...

  18. 26 minutes ago, Tinker said:

    Have been hoping for some time that Chris Holder could potentially be one of BV's signings. Can see him going really well at the NSS and the move could reignite his career. Here's hoping.

    As far as Tai is concerned, I'm really glad the Aces didn't give into his supposed demands. It just wouldn't work and the team would end up feeling fragmented and not as one. 

    If any sport lent itself to having a "drop in" competitor it is Speedway. (In the UK)...

    Any team can have any rider on any night, therefore a 'drop in rider' is part and parcel of the sport already..

    Basically the set up is just designed to achieve (at least) six riders for each team, each meeting, (could be any riders at all as long as it comes within a certain average number), and we are then good to go..

    Can't see too much impact to team spirit if one of your team is there, then isnt, then is, then isnt again etc etc..  

    And through the season plenty of riders will invariably "drop in" and align themselves with their "team mates" maybe even just for one evening only..

    A shame it couldnt happen at every top level track, as the fans would definitely respond in numbers, and clubs wouldn't need to find money to pay for two meetings from their one match income..

    Maybe even the Eurosport cash could be used to assist paying a "superstar" at each track..?

    As for Sweden? Considering it appears that many believe it is in financial meltdown, a good many "superstars" have already signed on the dotted line, so you can only presume that they have confidence in getting paid...

    Maybe the Aces could persuade Dan B to drop Sweden? I presume Woffy wasnt coming "cheap" so could a fair proportion of this salary be put in front of Dan?

  19. 3 hours ago, PhilTheAce said:



    Top six written all over it that septet..... ;)

    Edit. Can you confirm that it is Jason and not Phil you have listed at No 4....? :D

    • Haha 1

  20. 15 minutes ago, racerback said:

    how would you work out averages for these riders as they wouldnt do 4 home 4 away to get averages mind you bv would like tai on a 7.something average every year 

    also you would pay tai a fortune just to ride home while someone else would be paid less and incure all travel costs 

    as much as i would love to see tai riding here again for me you either sign up to do our league or you dont no half measures

    For me, if Tai rode for the Aces and only did home meetings....

    I would take his home average and divide it by 2 to calculate his overall average..

    eg. If he went unbeaten around the NSS all season and got a 12 point average when it is divided by two it becomes a 6....

    That would be fair...... :D

    • Like 1

  21. 5 minutes ago, brianbuck said:

    Bradford were another club to have multiple names! I can remember their team being Boomerangs, Tudors, Panthers, Northern, Barons, and Dukes - and probably by ba couple more names that I've forgotten!

    One year I went they were called the 'SEKUD'...

    Well. '09 SEKUD' to be precise...

    At least that was how the signs that the cheerleaders held up read when the centre green presenter had asked them to show us on the back straight what they were holding up to the main stand on the home straight.... :D

    Top notch presentation....

    And has it got much better? 


    • Like 1
    • Haha 2

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