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Fortythirtyeight

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Posts posted by Fortythirtyeight

  1. Posted

    9 minutes ago, iainb said:

    To be fair as attendances, pay rates and profit/loss numbers are the biggest kept secrets in Speedway, it's difficult to do any sums. As for Bartosz Smarzlik (Zmarzlik) I think you could probably add a zero on the end of £120 a point, probably more going by the numbers Darcy Ward was quoting a few years back.

    Most of Polands top team don't pay the stars per point as the elite will be on a set guarantee and a big one at that, as you suggest.

    Attendances aren’t that big a secret , just ask a promoter or a turnstile operative .

    As for wages, all riders and mechanics talk, so they know the going rate and who to try and sign for next .

  2. Posted · Edited by Fortythirtyeight

    45 minutes ago, mikebv said:

    Really?

    They must be paying out well under £5k a night if that is the case...

    One top league promoter mentioned circa £10k a night was the going rate, however that was a few years ago when a few of the major stars still rode here..

    If they are paying out so little nowadays (must be much less than £10k for two meetings), then how come are they are losing so much?

    I would think though that if you want riders to ride in one league only, then you would have to pay them a reasonable amount, and if a track cannot afford to pay circa £11k from its home meeting to pay for the two it needs to, then there probably isn't any hope for the sport..

    1200 paying £18 generates over £20k a night which surely must be affordable?

    It basically shows that your just making stuff up and speculating on figures you know nothing about. 

    Whilst Premier division points rates are traditionally higher than championship they are no where near your ‘ guesstimates ‘ and only a select few in the Premiership could dream of getting near your £120 a point.

    Most championship club don’t get anywhere near 1200 paying customers and most have around 50-60% attendees paying ‘ concession ‘ rates, around £12, as they are pensioners !

    Every club has its own pay structure but rule of thumb in the championship would be number 1 on around £80 plus per point ( forget Glasgow !) to number seven £40-£45 per point. There will be travel costs to be added and some will do ‘ bonus ‘ payments ( team win, van and or / mechanic contribution ) so you can’t attach a specific figure and make it fit all as crowd levels and sponsorship deals will also come in to play. A winning team is a lot more expensive than a losing one but then the attendance levels go down when your losing which is why 90% of clubs are losing money and don’t think that winning makes you profit, as Workington sadly found out.

     

    • Like 1

  3. Posted

    5 hours ago, Tsunami said:

    You should have mentioned you were coming up Bob. I was one of those people who was dining at the table to the 'tapes' side of the refs box, and it would have been nice to see you again after all these years. 

    Totally agree with others about Mulford getting excluded was wrong as he went down because Kemp went wildly out of control between the 1st and 2nd bends.

    Archie had a spoke go through his rear tyre and was told he would be OK to change, and was on his way-out when he was excluded. All the other riders with following rides had the benefit of long track grading and watering between heats. He got 3 points and beat JPB who he has replaced in the Diamonds team. He will learn to gate in such company as time goes by I am sure.

    In terms of the gate I thought it was similar to normal gates at Redcar, and it's deceptive with the extra standing available now on the back straight. Another new feature been introduced  to continually improve the situation and facilities at Redcar and plaudits to the promotion for continuing to do so. Great permanent catering facility now installed.

    Freeman was excluded under 2 minute rule ( yes, just as he was about to be pushed off ) but this was in heat 9 and there had been a long track grade after heat 8 ( track was prepped after every four heats ). They were changing his sprocket and chain as well which added to the time taken.

    He was on the pace in his other rides and deserved his points.

  4. Posted

    4 hours ago, mikebv said:

    The individual meetings invariably dont have much of a prize fund and riders race for "basic money"..

    Hence so many advertised to ride pick up illnesses just before the meeting and get replaced by someone local who usually isnt up to the same level..

    Even the British Final itself being ran on a Monday night doesn't generate anywhere near the crowd levels it used to at Brandon on a Sunday..

    For me, five man teams and a league of 12 teams riding home and away twice is the only way to deliver the priority requirements for the sport...

    ie Enough rides for riders and 'spare' riders to have as replacements without guest riders being used which will mean that so important credibility...

    With team strengths being around a 'Championship', level of two heat leaders and three second strings/best reserves..

    Six rides each per night, 15 heats at an average of £120 a point per rider would mean £5400 paid out per night per team for an average 45 points scored..

    A decent standard to watch too with no out of their depth lads..

    These lads could then race in a lower league made up of the other teams left and "B" teams from any team in the top league who wants to run one..

    A league that could use seven man teams to give the riders most in need of practice to improve the opportunity to do so..

     

    £120 a point !?!?

    Where on earth are you getting that pay scale from ? Bartosz Smarzlik ?

    so roughly DOUBLE what a basic 3rd heat leader or overpaid second string gets now . That doesn’t add up when the sport is already bankrupting itself.

  5. Posted

    1 hour ago, Ringitsneck said:

    Decent meeting with the right winner for once using the semi final & finals format, you can’t argue with unbeaten all night !

    It appeared to be a good sized crowd and the track prep was spot on with no dust despite the heat. Took a long time to get it all done but I’m told that was because of an enforced break before the semis to issue / fit new tyres ?

    Good to see ‘ our Archie ‘ in there and not looking out of place and most of the field can still have a few cracks at this title in the future.

    Thought the ref was wrong on more than one occasion. Heat 10, Kemp lifts on turn 2 and interfered with Mulford who had to bail out , big time !, yet Mulford excluded ?

    Harsh on Ablitt too when it should have been all four back for a classic ‘ first bend bunching ‘ but then I’ve never rated the Mussolini of the refs society.

    Well done Redcar , once again, for staging this type of meeting.

    It was once said of aforementioned ‘ Mussolini ‘…… “ better a bad ref than no ref at all “ but I do agree , Mulford was an innocent victim of Kemps lifting mid corner.

    • Like 2

  6. Posted

    8 hours ago, ch958 said:

    I have said it before but the interaction between the track and the tyres? Is there a better material? What happened to shale? A binding agent now no oil drips?

    And most of all slow the bloody things down. At Redcar the riders start to slide miles before the corner, doesn't do it for me.

    Every time a rider led change comes along - 4 valve, uprights, why don't they say no; neither has added to the spectator experience and its just more cash for the riders.

    A recruitment drive for riders among the grass, moto x whatever community?

    Redcar do use red shale, purchased at great expense from a Scottish quarry , and the binding agent is clay as oil being dropped on the track was barred years ago.

    A rider is never going to say no to something that may make him faster than an opponent.

    As for recruitment drive, it has been tried and it failed miserably before it even got started.

  7. Posted

    11 minutes ago, edmon said:

    No I will say that Jim McGregor argued against the decision that night, saying it should have been rerun.

    and on THAT night the head of the SCB said it had to be rerun,  by the Monday he was told to award it to Glasgow .

    McGregor made no argument on that night he simply rang the SCB chair for advice whilst never more than two feet away from the Glasgow management who stuck to him like glue. He did say the rule was it SHOULD be rerun . But that’s all in the past now and we are all best of friends, honestly !

     

  8. Posted

     

    “And any 'promoter' who doesn't put some signposts up around the town or try to get the team into local newspapers/tv/radio should be shot!  The general quality of UK league speedway PR is horrible”

    Dear Mr/ Mrs HackneyHawk,

    it may educate you to know you need the relevant councils permission, a licence ( involving quite a high fee ) and the local highways authority ( again a fee involved ) to erect signs around any area.

    In the specific case of Redcar ( so called because they are 500 metres inside the Redcar council boundary although they are in the town of Middlesbrough ) , when they asked to erect direction signs from the nearby dual carriageway they were told ‘ no chance ‘ as Middlesbrough council would not allow signs advertising a Redcar council facility.

    Life is not straight forward so hold fire with the firing squad !
     

    • Like 1

  10. Posted · Edited by Fortythirtyeight

    1 hour ago, Biffa said:

    Postponed by who? Genuine question and not stirring. Is it a Birmingham only decision , BSPL authorised with Birmingham ,In agreement with Redcar promoters or…..? Just wondering. 

    by Birmingham , Redcar not happy but yet again the SCB say Redcar have to go back so basically do what you want, whenever you want .

  11. Posted

    As an ‘ outsider ‘ on the workings of the Diamonds there do seem to be some strange things going on behind the scenes but let’s hope it all works out in the end. Running with restricted crowds would appear to be suicide so why do it ?

    A good track curator is essential , look at the Birmingham v Redcar fiasco and they still don’t have a permanent track man, not many left these days.

    • Like 1

  13. Posted · Edited by Fortythirtyeight

    This from Redcar Promoter ( soon to stand down) regarding how the Birmingham cup match appeal has been handled.

    Via the Speedway Star, a ‘spokesman’ for SCB has issued a response to my query as to why the recent Redcar V Birmingham KO Cup match was different to the Redcar V Glasgow (01.06.17) and Coventry V Rye House (11.09.15) matches. Both of those matches were abandoned and declared before heat 10, whereas the KO Cup match was not.

    I have asked several times via email, why those matches were declared, contrary to the SCB’s own rule book (SCB reg 011.1.23). I was NOT given a reason - I was told that a meeting can only be declared before heat 10 if the result is already ‘mathematically certain’, with no other explanation.

    I wouldn’t usually take to social media to do this, but feel I have no other option as I didn’t get the decency of a reply to my question by email - instead I had to read it in the Speedway Star this morning.

    Reading the ‘spokesman’s’ response, he states that the 2 matches I have used as an example, were ‘beyond doubt mathematically’! It’s written for us all to read, but is completely untrue.

    If you see the photos attached to this post, you will see that NEITHER of those results  were mathematically beyond doubt. The opposition could have won by heat 15 in both examples (if they are using heat 10 for that analysis, then the KO Cup match result was beyond doubt too). 

    In fact, the score difference was exactly the same (8 points) at the time of the abandonment in the Redcar V Glasgow match in 2017. Both matches were abandoned after Heat 9 - other than the fact that one was a KO Cup match, there is no difference whatsoever. The rule book does not state that a KO Cup match is treated differently to a league match either! (see attached reg 011.1.23).

    In this article, the SCB also state that the KO Cup match at Birmingham was not abandoned due to the condition of the track - the fact that the match was delayed for over an hour due to the remedial track work means that it WAS directly responsible. The match would never have reached curfew otherwise - the SCB have not acknowledged this in their statement.

    It’s a shame this explanation wasn’t given to me personally by our governing body when I requested it, but then again, it’s a very weak and untrue explanation. The evidence is attached for all to see. These decisions ARE inconsistent, and our treatment in this situation is disrespectful and unfair.

    Precedents were set I’m afraid and this explanation is not fooling me, or Redcar Speedway - we deserve better.

     

    • Like 5

  14. Posted

    8 minutes ago, lewy said:

    Plymouth would have been happy to use guests for Henry for the rest of the season they were told that they had to sign a replacement hope this ruling is applied to other teams who may find themselves in similar situations. 

    Wait till it happens to one of the managements teams , then you’ll know. Judging by Redcars failed appeal regarding their K O cup match v Birmingham  it would appear it’s one law for Glasgow ( awarded a match after 9 completed heats ) and a different one for Redcar ( told the match is not complete as 10 heats not completed )

  15. Posted

    6 hours ago, Ringitsneck said:

    Which it was.

    They probably list it that way as the original concept was the riders on old Honda type 125cc engines but , speedway being speedway, riders sought quicker more expensive engines and some began using oversized 140 pit bike engines . They then said sealed engines only but that was openly flouted and now it’s a free for all and no engines get checked anyway.

    As there’s virtually nothing in the rule book covering these machines it is basically a ride what ever you like class as long as it’s classed as ‘ safe ‘.

  18. Posted

    6 minutes ago, screm said:

    Bates was injured last night not ill.

    Decent performance from Berwick and on another day they might've come away with a point or two and going into the last race that was a real possibility. Gappmaier excellent in his first two then disappeared, Berwick need to get Aaron Summers going, seems to be struggling with his starts so hopefully he will get things sorted very soon. Star again was Leon Flint, I have a feeling there will be one or two Premiership clubs knocking on his door very soon. Congratulations to Leicester on their win. 

    The rule was applied for ‘INJURY and ILLNESS ‘  to stop riders missing tracks they disliked….just another rule not being adhered too then.

  20. Posted

    The Ref, Mr.Breckon , was quite correct in his decision, bend two incident so no recourse for all four back. Sarjeant went wide when Jenkins was outside him leaving no space and he had to bail out. Jenkins was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Another good match between two even sides who both have riders who look a little rusty but will get better with matches. Edinburgh will be very hard to beat at their place but Redcar have no home advantage as the track is fair to all so they will have to work that little bit harder to win matches comfortably at the MPA. 

  24. Posted

    1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

    MY only issue with Warsaw is that it is out of town whereas the Principality is slap bang in the middle of Cardiff and requires just a short walk from bar to stadium:cheers:

    It’s a 15 minute walk , hardly out of town, and they close the motorway to enable you to walk back safely. For me Warsaw is better than Cardiff as you don’t get ripped off by the hoteliers.

    • Like 4

  25. Posted

    11 hours ago, Tsunami said:

    Unless it's a sponsor, the DMU agreement states the flights are paid by the hiring club especially for U19/21and country championships rounds and finals.

    Think you are a bit out of touch Dave. I know Newcastle paid for flights for certain Dane’s in the past but that was their choice in their negotiation with said riders, no DMU agreement in place since 2017.

    This is why the riders get the cheapest flights possible and fly into Heathrow or Stanstead instead of Newcastle, etc ( when riding for northern clubs ) as it’s at their expense.

    But each club does its own thing ,hence why certain clubs pay way higher than others.

     

    • Thanks 1
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