GP Round 1 Gorican Saturday April 29th

[GP Round 1 Gorican Saturday April 29th]

Thinking of heading here for the first time, anyone got any advice on where to stay / where most people stay? Gorican? Or back in Zagreb? Would be nice to be mixing with some other fans! If staying in Zagreb was thinking to hire a car, unless anyone knows how easy it is to get there and back on the same day using public transport! Cheers Rich

[Cardiff 2017]

My daugher just asked me what the word erotic means.

 

Absolutely ridiculous from the BT presenter. I will be sending them an email!

Have to say so think she was having a nightmare during that section, I was listening rather than watching and she was all over the place!

[Polish Horror Crash On Sunday-they Both Walked Away]

i cant believe you cant see it logically.

The cause of the stoppage was triggered by an engine failure NOT Kildemand hitting him. Please understand what primary cause means. Kildemand hitting him was the secondary reason.

 

If you think Kildemand was more at fault then basically you are saying that if Dudek was under power then Kildemand just deliberatly rode into him! Of course he didnt!! he hit him because Dudek wasnt under power, and to say we dont know if Kildemand saw him is absurd! You suggesting he had seen him and decided just to hit him.

 

Primary cause of the stoppage means the first incident that occured the race to be stopped not what happened after which is secondary.

 

If Dudek hadnt have stopped the race would have continued, he therefore was the reason the race was stopped.

 

answer me this............say the rider immediatly behind Dudek hit him would he be excluded???

I think we need clarification if 'primary' in the context of the speedway exclusion is actually used in the context of 'first' or more in its context of 'main' or 'chief importance' (or whether it's indeed left deliberately ambiguous)

 

primary

ˈprʌɪm(ə)ri/

adjective

1.

of chief importance; principal.

"the government's primary aim is to see significant reductions in unemployment"

synonyms: main, chief, key, prime, central, principal, foremost, first, most important, predominant, paramount, overriding, major, ruling, dominant, master, supreme, cardinal, pre-eminent, ultimate; informalnumber-one

"the police believe that crime detection is their primary role"

2.

earliest in time or order.

"the primary stage of their political education"

synonyms: original, earliest, initial, beginning, first; More

 

Because primary does not always mean first. I can see both sides - The first incident was the engine failure of course, but I can see the argument it doesn't necessarily mean it was the incident of chief importance which actually caused the stoppage.

 

Perhaps in this case it is slightly more clear, but certainly in other situations the first (or primary time wise) incident isn't always the incident of chief importance which actually stops the race or results in the exclusion.

 

Can see both sides, interesting debate.

[Bruce Penhall]

 

The contact I see is right at the end, on the exit of the turn and entry to the straight, when Carters front wheel brushes Penhalls back wheel, as Carter is already on the way down.

 

Are you seeing the knock of the handlebar at the point that Carter says there is contact? (although, as you mention, Carters description is somewhat misleading to say the least!). Ive replayed several times (its around halfway around the second bend ) and cant see a thing that suggests contact at that point, even when watching Carter's handlebar.

 

Its ironic, they bash into each other several times before that, the last being the entry to the first turn, but Carter comes off without any contact until hes already on the way down. He really got himself into completely the wrong position.

 

All the best

Rob

 

 

What are you watching on? If you are watching on Youtube you're not going to see it.

 

I've no idea when Kenny Carter says there is contact, other than the "leg" thing, which is clearly wrong. As I've said, the contact with the handlebars is when Bruce's back wheel flips out. Whatever other factrs are taken into account, the thing that causes Carter to actually fall is Penhall's back wheel swiping his handlebars.

 

You will need good quality footage to see it, though. And the one on Youtube with American commentry cuts views at exactly the moment to make you miss it.

 

Keep watching, Rob.

 

Grachan, I'm not sure if this is the footage you are talking about

which shows a second angle of the Penhall and Carter incident from the rear which really helps to form a clearer opinion.

 

I believe you can see Penhall making contact with Carters handlebar at 1.19, but it's what runs up to this which gives it context - the way it looks to me is that Carter is already on the way down at that point.

 

The way I see it is this:

 

1.16 Bruce drifts out slightly wider (where his left leg kicks out) - arguably his right as there is space between them so he can still pick his line at this point

 

1.17 (towards the end of 1.17 and into the start of 1.18) Kenny, possibly due to the proximity of Bruce coming under him also shifts line and body position significantly, adopting, for me, the position of a rider who is already coming down, he's already starting to straighten up, and his front wheel is already beginning to tuck underneath.

 

1.19 after Kenny's alignment shift as described above, there then appears, as you mention, the contact between his handlebar and Bruce's rear mudguard / push bar, but by this time it appears, as noted above he's already going down as on a trajectory towards the fence.

 

I'm doing it on my phone so can't state the exact freeze frame times, but if you run it through frame by frame it appears to me anyway, clearly that Kenny is already straightening up and on the way down before any contact. You really do need to do it frame by frame though. I guess it would be arguable he could have stayed on without the contact, but if anything it does look to me he's already falling onto the rear end of Bruce's bike.

 

So if we were to discount contact as the actual cause of the fall (following the train of thought that he's already going down) then the only other question about Bruce being at fault would be whether his riding earlier in the bend is the initial cause (otherwise it has to be Kenny as cause of stoppage) And that's possibly another debate, and i'm out of time to freeze frame through that right now!

 

However I'd say, apart from his line shift at 1.16 Bruce didn't really appear to do much else questionable to me, he's running Kenny wider for sure, but could it be classed as unfair? Having a quick look Kenny appears to be drifting / struggling to hold his line of his own accord a couple of times earlier in the bend, already heading out wider and wider. Bruce is fairly wide though, you can see from his tyre tracks after his line shift at 1.16 how wider he is than the usual line through that bend, but is that in itself unfair? As with that manoeuvre to push Kenny wider, does Kenny have chance to roll the throttle off and tuck back in behind? I personally struggle a bit to see that actual manoeuvre as the cause, it's like the whole incident is just like a perfect storm of circumstances! But in essence perhaps this is secondary anyway, as the main debate with this incident is whether Bruce caused him to fall through contact, and from what I've viewed and described above it would appear not.

 

Anyway, open to further debate no doubt!

[Phil Morris In The Star]

Or Erik Gundersen or Jan O'Pedersen!

[The Late Lee Richardson Inquest 6th March]

Just been reported on Talksport that Lee Richardson inquest is due today. Whilst this is obviously in the saddest of circumstances I do think it's fitting that it's getting national publicity and he's not forgotten.

[Asset System Flawed]

Isn't there a fundamental difference though with football due to the average system which means riders who are assets can't sometimes be used even if the club wanted to. In football clubs can sign and play however many top quality performers that they want to. Therefore the argument exists that clubs should be compensated with a loan or transfer fee as they are not being allowed to build or manage the club in the way they want that is best for their business.

 

In effect, some are saying that it's restraint of trade that clubs / the bspa don't let a rider become a free agent at the end of their contract, but surely it could be argued that the true restraint of trade comes from the average system, as it forces clubs to release riders they may want to use.

 

It's a bit chicken and egg, but I can see why in some respects an asset system is valid in some form, as a club may sign a rider they wish, in all good faith to have at their club for the long term, but due to the average system (which lets be honest who's rules seem to change annually) they can't, so being forced to release the rider to another club, so receiving a loan fee at least seems fair enough as they may wish to have that rider as part of their team in future and see them as a fundamental part of their club, but obviously due to no fault of their own with the average system can't.

 

So a loan fee or transfer fee is almost like a form of compensation to the parent club created by the bspa's own rules because the parent club can't use a rider they wish. And as we know a club not being a me to use the riders they want can have a massive impact on a club and fans, can so negatively effect the business by having to release riders who are crowd favourites and so on (Maybe not too much of a stretch to think that in some cases the average system has in some cases been close to putting clubs in jeopardy)

 

Therefore I quite like the idea mooted earlier by Wolfhound which if I understand correctly that a rider would have to be away from their parent club for at least 2 seasons before becoming truly free again, as at least this would enable the parent club the chance to bring the rider back.

 

I also do understand why there is an average system - I'm not particularly arguing against that here - that's a different discussion, I'm just seeing the asset system in a bigger context taking the average system into account.

[Chris Harris And Scott Nicholls]

Gary havelock was with nicholls in 06 or 07 in the GP's and actually did help nicholls out a fair bit ... more than tatum has...

 

 

Well, he fronted up for interviews to tell the world that they were chasing the right set-up, while all Tatum MBE seems to do is carry his crash helmet.

 

How do you know what role / influence / impact Kelvin Tatum has on Scott Nicholls? No offense intended but to me when i read such a flippant remark it just makes you sound a bit ridiculous, and difficult to take anything you may write with any degree of seriousness. Granted his results the last two GP's haven't shown any marked improvement (which is from what i can tell is when Kelvin has certainly been with him in the pits, though admittedly i don't know how long he may have been helping him before) but to me your comment reads as disrespectful both to Scott Nicholls who obviously is trying to improve his set up and performance and to Kelvin Tatum, who as a former Individual World Champion (albeit longtrack), British League and International Top Liner OBVIOUSLY knows a thing or two about what it takes for a successful set-up.

 

Even if Nicholls GP results don't significantly improve while receiving help from Tatum, (and i do acknowledge that Speedway is a results business) i would still imagine even then it would be very difficult for any outsider to the Nicholls Camp to quantify what influence Kelvin Tatum may or may not have played in that, or indeed what other aspects of Nicholls set-up he may have helped with. Somethings take time or who knows maybe he would be struggling even moreso without help, or perhaps he has just reached his GP level. I hope not, since as an outsider looking on there doesn't appear to be too many stand out reasons why he shoudn't more consistently win races. By this i mean when i watch him ride the bike there doesn't seem to be anything particularly wrong with his style / skill or determination, and also when i see him being interviewed i interpret what i see as a person who is trying to reinforce self belief in himself in the face of difficult results and who appears motivated, and indeed somewhat frustrated by his current run of form.

 

On top of this i also see someone who is obviously not scared and indeed willing to ask for others help and advice in order to improve his results - by previously recruiting Havelock and now Tatum. For me then, those ingredients seem on the surface to all be right - style / skill / determination, motivation and a willingness to receive help. Of course what i don't know about is why he consistently doesn't get out the gate and often seems relatively down on power! - And of course i guess this is where your Havelock's and Tatum come in. Good Luck to them i say.