BWitcher

Not making excuses Pinny, thats speedway. My only point is to those suggesting that the rest of the team didn't do their jobs, which in the main they did.

It appears what Barry the Cat is saying is there are issues with the scripting on the Birmingham website, issues that have been pointed out to the webmaster in the past and that haven't been rectified. These issues, with increased traffic cause a far bigger demand on the servers than they should do, or it seems other clubs websites do. It appears from the Birmingham side of things there is animosity between Birmingham and AP Media and they are suggesting this is a deliberate act. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Here's an example of exactly what I meant. For some reason foik were expecting a career 6.5-7pt guy to be rattling up big scores every week. It is they who were wrong, not the rider who did as he always did.

Diplomatic as always.. but Maths isn't his strong point.

Correct, but I'm not talking about what happened before, I'm referring to what happened on track. The Wolves 2nd strings and reserves scored a LOT more pts than in previous encounters with Birmingham so they did raise their game. 7pts from Tai Woffindens replacements over 2 meetings simply could not be covered for in a side built with two big hitters. Those are the breaks, Birmingham took advantage, no issues there.

Again, we have no reason for why he was a poor signing, or what he actually failed to do.Johno became a scapegoat that season for the ill feeling between the promotion and Wolfcry. Add to this he started the season in a blaze of form, so what when he returned to normal and had a few bad meetings some folk turned on him. He averaged 6.65 in the role that the likes of Adam Skornicki, Graham Jones have been asked to fill over the years.. both of whom had season after season around that figure. What exactly were some fans expecting from him that season? I'd like to add, I was no big fan of him either. I just don't buy into this theory he was a disastrous signing as he pretty much did the job he was signed to do. We've had far worse riders.

Although, lets not forget, Sam averaged less than Johnno in the same season, plus was a higher starting average... The treatment of Wolfcry was a very different issue though and I agree with your points there totally. The issue with Johnno was quite simply, for whatever reason some fans were expecting him to be an 8pt rider.

This! it seems we're getting a constant diatribe of propaganda from Sportowefakty. Frankly, the organisers of the SEC have shown themselves in their true light with their handling of the Woffinden affair. It's common knowledge that much of Polish/Russian speedway is controlled by organisations with links to shall we say 'dodgy' organisations. I would suggest this is one of the reasons it became easy for them to organise a round in Russia too!

True, but its no good harping back to earlier injuries in the season. The facts are simple. Tai's injury was the killer, it doesn't matter if we still had Proctor and Thorsell, getting 7pts over 2 meetings from Tai's rides we would have lost anyway. Had Tai not crashed with Gollob, he'd be World Champion already and Wolves would 95% certainly be in the playoff final. The rest of the Wolves team did their jobs (bar Fred to an extent in the 2nd leg but it was all over by then) so in essence they did peak at the right time. Our reserves outscored theirs in both meetings. The second strings + Adam also scored more then they would normally do against Birmingham. An average Tai performance would have seen a fairly comfortable Wolves win.

Ah that old chestnut, Johnno, the 6.5-7pt guy we signed.. who averaged about 6.7 for us. Not bad for riding a lawnmower in a far higher standard league than we have now. The problem then, was not with Johnno, but the man whose place he took. That being Sam Ermolenko. Edited to add, Johno averaged 6.65 for us that season.

He is currently the Worlds No 1 rider. After the weekend he will hopefully be World Champion. Hence my wording Very true. If only as it would have been very very different.

They would.. but would either have actually been picked ahead of NKI? Darcy maybe.. NKI was the rider everyone wanted, it just didn't happen for him on the night. Cook.. that was desperate.

Totally understand that, reality is though, the tie was handed to you on a plate by that stage by the performance of Wolves 2 guests at No 1. The 2nd strings of Wolves actually scored more than was expected. You're not going to find Darcy Ward scoring 7 pts over 2 meetings so will need to step it up another level against Poole. It's a shame in a way that such an anticipated clash was ruined by Woffys crash in the GP. It really could have been something special. In saying that, from a Brummie point of view, it is and was something special, you can only beat whats in front of you and you did just that and now can enjoy your place in the final.

I agree, but we couldn't do anything about the last one (Woffy).

You do amuse me

Again as on the other thread.. ignoring the incompetency of the manager, was it really that bad? What can you do when you get 2pts for Woffinden. It all depends upon the league but the basis is there for a decent side again with Woffinden (if any top riders are in the league), Proctor, Thorsell certainties. I'd still happily have Skornicki as a solid middle order rider. The rest is very much dependent upon how the league is setup.

It's time we got in a team manager who can actually make some tactical decisions to aid us in the meetings. It is absolutely staggering bad management the way he handled our reserves across these two legs. Once again tonight, as in the home leg, Klindt was winning races for fun from the outside gates and awful from the inside. Once again, our genius of a manager DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to take advantage of that, waiting until the final races of the meeting when we had already lost to do something. However.. I must add in defence of the team, in the main they did their jobs. The reality is we had guests who scored 5 pts and 2pts for the Worlds No 1 rider respectively. NO team and I mean NO team would cover for that. With Tai, we would have won, and with some ease. It's as simple as that.

I know, but it wasn't far off from being the truth! Wolves had a rider at reserve who they could have engineered to have 6-7 races from the outside gates where he wins the vast majority of the time! Its staggeringly bad management to not take advantage of that. Staggeringly bad.

What do you mean, the way they are riding? They made heavy weather of beating a top heavy side. Wolves picked up 8pts from 9 rides from Woffys rides. He would have scored a min of 23/24. Wolves would likely have won over 2 legs. Their 2nd strings did a lot better than normal against Birmingham. Congratulations to Birmingham BUT they are going to find it a HELL of a lot tougher against Poole as Darcy Ward won't be scoring 8pts from 9 rides against them. Not correct. If Klindt was off gate 3 or 4 every race he would be World Champion. It matters not if he gates on the inside as I have said time and time and time again. He loses the speed on the 1st 2 turns, they come alongside him on the back straight and he goes to the back. If he gates off 3 or 4 he is gone. Tonight once again proved that. 2 great starts off the outside 6 pts.. 3 races from the inside gate, including 2 good starts.. 2 pts. He did miss the gate in his final outside race.. Home leg.. 2 great gates from the outside gates 6pts.. 2 great gates from the inside gates.. 0 pts. Sadly Wolves have an utterly inept team manager who is too clueless to take advantage of this glaring situation.

Fair enough, I just get tired of people trying to turn it into an EL v PL situation. The sport in general needs a shake-up and the leagues need to work together.

What are you talking about 'imaginery profits'? I'm the one saying that neither leagues are making money! Bottom line is, the clubs are losing money. There isn't a big difference between making a profit and making a loss as you claim there to be, in fact the difference in UK currency would be 2p. Once again you are trying to turn it into an attack on the EL which is quite simply narrowminded. The EL has a budget, it includes Sky money. PL has a budget, it doesn't include Sky money (or as much if they do get some). You've agreed that none, or very few clubs are making money. The riders are as such being overpaid.

Do I really need to explain? You have stated that there is a lot more eating into a clubs finances than riders wages. Yes there are. The vast majority of these are fixed expenses too. From this you put together a budget, with your expected income based on previous seasons attendances etc and work out what is viable in terms of paying your riders. You've stated that you believe that ALL clubs are making a loss. Quite clear they are paying the riders too much then.

TNT - newsflash for you. Wolves season is not yet over. Tai Woffinden is not yet World Champion. Both events are likely, but you assume both are 100% certainties in this post.

Name me a higher level of league racing in this country then.

So they are overpaying the riders then, you have just confirmed that yourself.