BWitcher

They already do, or am I missing the PL clubs rolling in their profits?

I would suggest that's a rather ill founded argument there. They are as equally important to each other. I hardly think things would be rosy for the PL if the EL went away. Remember what happened in 95/96 when the higher league was abandoned and the leagues merged? It was the PL level clubs that couldn't survive. If they merged again at a lower level the same situation would crop up, the EL teams would be able to afford the better riders, the PL clubs fighting over the scraps. Let's take your argument to the Ultimate and remove all the existing EL clubs from the frame altogether.. what would happen now? Those top PL riders who currently double up would have a big drop in income, they would want better deals from the PL clubs. Costs would rise.. The sport, in order to thrive ideally needs 3 levels of racing and they are all dependent upon each other.

Nobody has to defend anything. Elite League is the highest level of speedway in the UK. That is a fact. I don't spend much time on the PL section as I support an EL team.. but tell me, is it inundated with EL fans coming on there to tell them there league is incorrectly named (which it actually is)?

Is it really so major? All part of the art of good gating, been present in the sport since day one.

Seems you care enough to take the time out of your life to come onto this forum, search out this thread and comment on it. Most strange for something you aren't interested in. Meanwhile, the fans of both teams will hopefully enjoy a meeting like the 1st leg. Great crowd, great atmosphere and some good racing. To be frankly the honest, the enjoyment of the meeting would not be altered one tiny bit whether there was 1 inch in the papers or a 16 page pullout, totally different issue.

Your basic facts are wrong, nothing to do with 'tints' on glasses. Again you have made the same mistake. Woffinden was not fit during that period. He rode through the pain barrier in the GP. Then, unlike what most normal riders would have done (and it would have been understandable) he announced that it would be a lack of respect if he rode in the GP and not for his teams. Thus he then rode the very next day for his Polish team and then again the very next day for Wolves. With the injury he had at the time, it simply wasn't possible for him to do that without there being a major risk of of antagonising it, which of course duly happened. It was absolutely the correct decision then to rest until the next GP, he wasn't letting anyone down and there wasn't ANY lack of commitment to his club and for you to suggest there was is nothing short of disgraceful. Continuing to ride at that point could have jeopardised his whole season which would have been no use to rider or club. Still unfit, he raced in the next GP before immediately returning to the Wolves side where again, many a rider would not have done so. So rather than slag him off which you seem happy to do I would like to congratulate Tai for continuing to dedicate himself to the team, continuing to team ride when it would be safer for him to clear off at the front of the race with the injury he has and leading us like a true No 1.

Strange how you've managed to reply when you've spent months gloating in the fact of having me on ignore. Not a lame attempt at all, you mentioned that Tai rode against Peterboro, which nullified your argument. Feel free to believe Tai has let Wolves down if you like, but then you would also have to include Freddie Lindgren, Sam Ermolenko and Peter Karlsson in your not committed to Wolves group as well. I'd suggest you would be in a very very small minority. No I wouldn't. People get up in arms about certain Poole riders and certain other riders, like THJ, Dryml etc because they are seriel offenders who have/had a habit of picking and choosing meetings. If this was Ward or Holder in the same situation I wouldn't be criticising them.

Nice attempt, but an utterly garbage post. Woffinden rode for Wolves on the 17th following the Gorzow GP and was forced to withdraw from the meeting in utter agony.

Not quite grasping it are you. He isn't fit. He would be letting his club down more by riding half fit and dropping points. I don't criticise him for giving it a go on Sunday. The likelihood with the injury he has it would make it very difficult to then ride Monday too. Wolves have a replacement so he is not leaving us in the lurch or letting us down.. unlike your No 1 who did just that. I would not in any circumstances expect to Tai to ride Monday night. His collarbone has 'perhaps' two meetings left in it this season, the European Championship and the GP. Good luck to him. By trying to ride for Wolves he would be risking letting the whole team and its fans down if he had to pull out after a couple of rides, which is always VERY likely when you are riding with the injury he has. In an individual meet, if it happens, he hasn't let anyone down. Time to go fishing elsewhere.

The situations you brought up aren't even comparable to this. He isn't fit to ride per se as everyone knows. This is akin to Peter Collins, Kenny Carter, Sam Ermolenko riding with injuries in a meeting to pursue a title. The chance to become British, European and World Champion in the same season is something Tai does not want to pass up and rightfully so. The outcry in the past has been when riders have been blatantly taking the mickey so to speak just to miss out on bogey tracks. I suspect if required Tai would have no problems providing a medical note for Monday! Of course it could be all a plot by Wolves as they don't want the Worlds No 1 rider, captain and most insperational rider in the team.

He's scored more points in the play-offs than Jan O

Good to see Niels is fit to ride in the 2nd leg.

Salty, just subscribe to MLB.tv, can't beat it. Every game live.

Agree, vital against Birmingham... if it was Cradley it would have been fatal, as that was life or death

Not disputing the first part, you may well have done, but as you say would have been more interesting though. As for your second point, that is the point many Wolves fans have made on a number of occasions.

Same old tired argument you keep trotting out about 'non-supporter' which of course couldn't be further from the truth. Try debating the issues which the rest of the people on this thread are doing. You won't do that though, because there is no way you can defend yet another shambolic display from those running the sport. into the ground. There was a sudden huddle called in which Poole did all the talking, Tony Steele nodded like a lapdog and then called the referee with some BS excuse of the 'moisture' coming out of the track. Belle Vue's team manager said nothing. The very fact that Tsunami thinks the debacle is worth laughing at pretty much sums things up.

I agree, not making excuses just pointing out the Brummies will need to up there game to another level come the final.

You're preaching to the wrong people.. its only a couple of Brummies fans, well one, David2905 who is harping on about the dangerous Lindgren. Are we? Don't think so, Birmingham won the meeting, congratulations to them and as they long as they hold their nerve they should go onto the final and good luck to them. Wolves hopes effectively ended when Tai crashed on Saturday night. Far from sulking I am still on a high because, despite my team losing I got to see an entertaining meeting in front of a big crowd. Speedway at its finest.

Ah here he is, once again nothing to contribute to the thread.

That was with regards to my thoughts on Ford/promoters in general. Let's move on

Sigh. NO. The track was fit for racing at Heat 10 or the they would not have been racing. FACT The track had not changed for Heat 11. FACT The meeting was called off after 10 heats. FACT. That is fixing a result. FACT No opinions involved. That is what happened on the night and nobody can dispute it... because it is FACT. Your refusal to acknowledge that does you a great disservice.

Its quite simple. What was different from the track in Heat 10 to the track in Heat 11? The answer is nothing. The meeting was abandoned at that point because Poole were 7 up and that was the result that was needed. That is match fixing. I am not frightened to use those words as that is what happened on the night for everyone on tv to see. Not only that but everyone KNEW it was going to happen. The commentators even predicted it. You know, as well as I do had Poole only been 5 up another race would have been run. Edited to add: We both agree that it wasn't a good night for speedway so we do have some common ground, there's little point us going round in circles again, it's all been covered on the other threads. Let's get back to focusing on what is GOOD about the sport and enjoy the rest of the playoffs. Empty terraces. Shows a far bigger snapshot of peoples opinon of the sport and the way it is run. Plus 93 pages on the Belle Vue v Poole thread, the vast majoriy concurring with my opinion.

I don't think you could be more wrong. On another thread there is a factually correct list of the 'incidents' that Ford has been involved in. Conspriacy theories aren't needed. That is why he is not popular. That is why he (and other promoters) have caused fans to walk away from the sport. So again rather than look objectively at the long list of dodgy events that have occured with Poole you opted to take a swipe at fans, falsely accusing them of conspiracy theories. You claim there isn't any evidence that the result of the Belle Vue V Poole meeting was fixed.. even when it was staring you in the face. Speedway fans are not as dumb as some promoters think they are and they can't cover things up now as they could in the past. Until they realise this and clean up their acts, the sport will continue its steady slide to oblivion. None of us want that. The sport is fantastic, the two playoff meetings re-enforced that. Why oh why can't promoters understand that working together will benefit them ALL rather than in-house fighting and manipulation of rules.

Whilst not dismissing Birminghams play-off chances, a little too much is being read into Mondays result. The reality is, with Woffinden riding, or Iversen on his normal bikes, they would have scored a minimum of 13. Thats 8 more than Iversen got... take away 2 from Wells and 1 from Adam and its a 5pt swing.. 49-41. They would still have a good chance of winning in the 2nd leg but folk wouldn't be talking about how dominant they are. I think it will be pretty close if it was Swindon/Birmingham but I'd just give Swindon the edge.

Most interesting Mr Rising. You seem to be leaning here towards a belief something untoward took place. Yet in your column for Speedway Star Extra you stated that any such 'conspiracy theory' suggestions were utter nonsense. In a column where you have limited space rather than take the time to lambast the way that meeting was run, you wasted column inches with a futile attack on the sports fans. For your information it wasn't just a few members of the 'BSF' who were outraged that night, it was supporters up and down the country.