BWitcher

They're actually quite simple compared to many sports.

Much of that makes sense Tsunami, although some of the parts you fail to mention is that many of those who no longer post on here, also no longer attend speedway. That's not through posts on this forum, that's through the ineptness of the way the sport is run and in some cases as a direct result of promoters attitudes towards the internet/forums/social media etc. It seems you and the BSPA hide behind an argument of 'its only a few moaners'. You couldn't be further from the truth. The few moaners are the ones who, although disillusioned with many aspects of the sport, still want to see it prosper. You fail to grasp that thousands of others don't stick around. They don't voice their opinion, explain what is wrong. They just STOP going. That is an absolute undeniable fact. Too little is done to identify why they have stopped going. Nobody is saying that promoters should read the forums and implement all the ideas that are offered up here, that would be crazy. What is being said is they shouldn't be publicly attacking forums. There is absolutely nothing to gain from it. You won't get one extra fan through the turnstiles by attacking forums and by definition those who post on them, but you sure as hell will lose a few... so where's the logic? For what its worth, I do believe there have been some improvements of late from a number of clubs who are beginning to embrace technology and what it can bring to them. I fully agree there is little point in promoters getting involved in individual spats, that would be pointless.

Do explain.

Point out where I have 'attacked' someone Tsunami. I have explained why some posts have been inherently wrong, but I have not attacked any individuals. If you're referring to Bryn, he understands I haven't attacked him.. shame you have to let a personal grudge get in the way and barnstorm into a thread again. You will also note that a number of others on the thread have said the same things, but alas, as per normal you don't spot those because everything becomes personal with you. Try reading posts, not the names of the posters. Now if you don't mind there was an interesting discussion taking place before you barnstormed in, but I do thank you for confirming what many on this thread have said... many members (not all) of the BSPA and their lackeys have zero public relations skills.

Or the guy who has sponsored riders over the years totalling a 5 figure sum, travelled the length and breadth of the country supporting his team, flies back from Portugal when he can to follow his team, doesn't scrounge of the sport by claiming free entrance just because he helps out here and there (another scourge of the sport). Thank you Tsunami for PRECISELY summing up why this sport struggles for both sponsors and support. It's a shame Tsunami that in what was a very constructive thread with a variety of opinions being put forward you have chosen to lower it by launching a personal attack.

Once again, you don't understand. It's not up to the customer (fan) to get their feelings across to the seller (promoter). The seller should be using all means possible to obtain feedback on their product. Its basic business sense. This forum provides free feedback that some businesses have to spend a lot of money to obtain. The best businesses find critical feedback far more useful than pats on the back.

Absolutely spot on mikebv.

It will be very easy for promoters to have one to one conversations with ALL their fans soon. You STILL fail to get it. Its not up to the customer to ensure their views are 'heard/acted' on. Any decent business would be ensuring that THEY are 'hearing/acting on' the views of their customers.

More antiquated nonsense I'm afraid Bryn. Continuing to trot out the 'hiding behind a forum name nonsense' is just another example of just how out of touch the promoters and many of those associated with them are in this sport. You don't need to hire rooms or wander around the terraces to engage with your fanbase anymore. That is precisely the point of this thread. I will tell you one thing that most certainly IS easier for folks than both posting on here, or speaking directly to a promoter.... and that's simply not going anymore. But hey, we don't know the names of the thousands who no longer go, so they don't count.

You have to ask yourself why some of the stuff on here has 'come about'. My point regarding face to face is not in relation to the 'abusive' posts, its more in line with the fact that most people will not be as critical in a face to face situation. On a forum they are far more likely to reveal the real reasons why they are disillusioned with the sport and to ignore such views is to wash money down the drain...

I can't agree with any of that Vince (apart from it's their money/risk etc) You simply do not attack your customers, or dismiss their comments out of hand as not 'credible'. Forums such as this give promoters a powerful tool to actually understand some of the gripes and frustrations that their customers have. The BSPA policy is often to ignore that. The results speak for themselves. People only posting what they would say to someones face.. again, antiquated and out of date. Informaton is power, many businesses would love to know what their customers 'real' thoughts were so they could improve their business accordingly.

They don't do it for us. That's not showing a lack of respect for riders as I respect them as much as anyone else, but the notion of them doing it to 'entertain' people is a foolish one. They do it because they enjoy it, to earn money and for personal glory. Their efforts in pursuit of those goals can be entertaining to us..

Its this heat WK, it's getting to us all!!

I'm sorry Bryn, but this is precisely the sort of attitude that has led speedway in the UK to be where it is.. the promoters and their associates line of "why don't you"..... It's the promoters who should be following the "why don't you" if anyone, they're providing a service, thousands are clearly unhappy with it.. telling those unhappy customers "why don't you" will only lead to them being more unhappy, perhaps walking away for good. "Why don't you" promoters do something pro-active and engage with your fanbase, they don't bite either, but they do pay you the money to keep your businesses alive. Edited to add, that's not an attack on you Bryn, just a general observation of promoters around the country.

Not this old **** again. Are Holder and Ward entertaining anyone when they're off out on their motocross bike or their jetskis? They do it because they enjoy it. Getting paid is a bonus that allows them to do it as a career. Does this forum contribute towards his wages? No it doesn't. However speedway fans are contributing towards riders wages. As he said, its fully transparent in the US, its hardly a major issue is it!

I do agree, however, that's the same for all sports and indeed for all aspects of life. Nothing has changed, just that your average terrace/pub conversation now plays out on forums etc. It's how you adapt and change that is the key. The absolute WORST thing you can do is go on the attack, thus tarring all supporters with one brush. That will simply alienate your customers.

The governing body hates Social Media/forums as it exposes the way the sport is run.. or not run.

I quite agree.

An example of the out of touch way the sport is run and governed.

You misunderstand.. the point is, as I think SCB made earlier.. riders from yesteryear involved in incidents/punchups/scandals are described as 'characters' and we hear how great they were.. Riders now, as soon as they're involved in anything are castigated and branded a scourge of the sport.. That's fine if folks opinions are the same for both, but you see some alarming inconsistencies at times.

So Craig Cook, Darcy Ward etc are just characters then yes?

Surely you mean he was a thug?

Funny that, I didn't realise there were age limitations on those two events..

Get Skornicki below Proctor before the play-offs. Problem solved.

You're a bit clueless aren't you