kennylane
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Posts posted by kennylane
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Or you could substitute it for this
Tommy Knudsen - the man who won the first ever Speedway race at Wembley Stadium in September 1981.
Both true, you have merely read into the statement incorrectly
Not strictly correct. That should read 'Tommy Knudsen - the man who won the first race at Wembley Stadium in September 1981.' The FIRST EVER race was won at the opening meeting at Wembley in 1928.
Bill Crampton at Maitland in December 1923 looks to have won the FIRST EVER SPEEDWAY RACE both at the Australian track and in the history of speedway.
Due to the some attacks on other posters this topic is being locked for the time being.
Nice to be back on track with most of the 'Johnnie Hoskins On Maitland 1923' brought over.
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http://www.vintagesp.../Maitland3.html
This is part of what Johnnie Hoskins writes in the article. Click on the link to read it in full.
“I arrived at West Maitland in the afternoon, called a sleepy cabit at the exit and with an assumed cofidence asked to be taken to a moderately good hotel.
“And here the fans took a hand.Jogging along clippety clop in the cab behind an aged nag I spotted on the pavement two old friends, Percy Weedon and his partner from Darwin.
“They paid the cabby, introduced me to the hotel proprietor and welcomed me like a long lost brother. They owned the local picture show. Soon I was running a big charity sports programme, boxingm street stalls, the lot, and made a huge success of it.
“Next came a vacant secrtearyship for the local Show grounds and Annual Agricultural Show.
“I bough a motor cycle and proposed motor cycle sports on the Show ground.
“The idea was turned down flat by the Committee, but I persevered. As a last chance I risked my job by getting some twenty or more of the lads on their motor bikes to meet me for a spin one Sunday morning on the Show Ground trotting track which was used at the Annual Show.
“The noise brought Committee men out of their beds and soon a crowd assembled. I raced with the lads once and once only. They went past me on my pre First War Triumph so fast, so dangerously close, I vowed never again. That is one vow I’ve kept.
CARNIVAL
In mid-summer of 1923 the first “Electric Light Carnival” featuring “dancing on the green and motor cycle racing was staged before a huge crowd.
Soon we changed the name to “Speedway” and ran weekly.
JACK KEEN,
ERITH, KENT
How nice to read Johnnie Hoskins memories of Maitland in December 1923. And we have the confidence of knowing that he was also actually there. It's what they term a primary source of reference on a subject.
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I've refrained from looking at this thread for some time - in fact I've refrained from looking at the BSF for some time as it has descended into the pits (no pun intended).
Olddon says "No matter how much Ross Garrigan, Norman Jacobs, Cyclone and others in the clan attempt on the BSF to decry the evidence provided in support of Johnnie Hoskins and the start of speedway at Maitland in December 1923, support for that theory is always provided in a convincing way." What convincing way is that? The proponents of the "Hoskins Did It" theory have still not yet quoted one contemporary source to back up their views. Ross, Cyclone, Kevin and I have asked repeatedly for them to do this and all we get is some link to a modern web site or quote from a written modern source. I suggest to BFD, olddon and kennylane that they actually go to Australia and look through the newspapers in the archives, or failing that go to Colindale and look through contemporary sources in the Newspaper Library. That's what historical research is all about, going back to the source. Ross has provided incontrovertible evidence on here that the meeting at Maitland in December 1923 was not the first of its kind, nor was it even thought to be at the time. That's the reality of this whole discussion.
OK, that was my last contribution to not only this debate but this forum as I'm finished with the BSF for good now because I know the only response from the Big Fat Tractor Driver will be to hurl personal abuse at me without trying to show any evidence of his views while olddon and kennylane will give more links to modern web sites. I have operated all my life under strict research conditions where arguments are supported by real facts and sources. There are disagreements over interpretation of course but never once have I found it descend to the level of personal abuse so beloved of Dave Puxley nor the idea that a link to a web site - or even worse, a plaque, can overturn years of real research.
I always thought there were supposed to be rules on this Forum about attacking the post and not the poster. Obviously I was wrong if BFD is still here.
I find it very sad to have to say I've finished with the BSF as I was one of the first members on the original site over 10 years ago. But it's just become a joke now. The idea of real historical research is now frowned on and those who practice it subject to personal abuse.
It was nice knowing you, Phil, but it's goodbye now.
It's a shame you have taken that attitude but it's a free world. It means you will now probably never see this item on Brian Darby's excellent Australian speedway site. For those interested - oh, dear another website link - all will be revealed at:
http://speedwayarchives.homestead.com/
SCROLL DOWN TO SEE THIS PHOTO AND CAPTION:
Bill Crampton - the man who won the first ever Speedway race at West Maitland Showgrounds in December 1923.
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What website are we talking about? You already have two other threads going? Is this a third?
I don't think I can wait 48 hours, I do hope you have a used spell checker...
I endorse your comments. I am waiting with "baited breath" as they say to see what turns up website-wise based on what we have so far seen as AJL threads on here.
JACK KEEN,
ERITH, KENT
Just a few hours to countdown and all will be revealed.
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The only person denigrating others on here is your good-self..
I see you have ducked out of responding to the question I asked in my original post, namely :-
"As you appear to be critical of the lengthy research carried out by the likes of Ross Garrigan and Norman Jacobs, could you name the "professional" historians that you place more credence on ?"
To infer that I have denigrated JSH achievements, please provide the proof on here.
No one is compelled to accept the status quo and if someone wishes to question it's validity based on their research findings that's fair enough.
However your sarcasm towards others with differing views and your unwillingness to provide reasoned counter arguments brings nothing to the topic.
BTW I do not know whether or not JSH did invent motor cycle speedway and until incontrovertible proof is published one way or the other, I will keep an open mind on the subject.
The only person denigrating others on here is your good-self..
I see you have ducked out of responding to the question I asked in my original post, namely :-
"As you appear to be critical of the lengthy research carried out by the likes of Ross Garrigan and Norman Jacobs, could you name the "professional" historians that you place more credence on ?"
To infer that I have denigrated JSH achievements, please provide the proof on here.
No one is compelled to accept the status quo and if someone wishes to question it's validity based on their research findings that's fair enough.
However your sarcasm towards others with differing views and your unwillingness to provide reasoned counter arguments brings nothing to the topic.
BTW I do not know whether or not JSH did invent motor cycle speedway and until incontrovertible proof is published one way or the other, I will keep an open mind on the subject.
Yowieee!! A double-whammy. If Johnnie Hoskins is looking down he must be enjoying all this? Support for the Maitland speedway started theory: the recently provided South African site, the NZ Grand Prix programme, and a while back Peter Oakes in 'Speedway Star" are a good enough basis surely?
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Nor did they give New Zealand's seven times national champion and wildcard entry Jason Bunyan special recognition?
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As you appear to be critical of the lengthy research carried out by the likes of Ross Garrigan and Norman Jacobs, could you name the "professional" historians that you place more credence on ?
I would be wary of believing that a Promoter will always be infallible in recalling events.
For example the race that Peter Craven lost his life, Ian Hoskins, the Edinburgh Promoter later stated that Craven started off a 20 yard handicap.
This was incorrect as though it was intended to be the case, the crowd that evening voiced their displeasure at the proposed handicap, and all four riders started from the gate.
How do I know ? - well I was standing right behind the starting gate at the front of the crowd !
That Ian Hoskins got this wrong can be corroborated by various people that were present that evening, including Mike Hunter (current Director of Edinburgh Speedway) and Jim Henry (current Clerk of the Course, at Armadale).
Of course you might choose not to believe the word of "amateur" spectators
You're a bit off course. Edinburgh in the early 1960s when Peter Craven tragically died and Maitland in 1923 are a long way apart. I don't quite see what this has to do with the debate on the start of speedway in Australia in December 1923. A rather unusual parallel but I am sure BFD will give his response.
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Just an update. Its all go. i have brought a webname and also got a company to host it. They said it should go live in 48hrs as from Wednesday night at 8pm or less could be 24hrs. As soon as i have seen it live i will put the website address on here. I have built the website but still needs info on the site. the website is still in early parts but as the season goes on it should get better. And for next year it should be even better.
What website are we talking about? You already have two other threads going? Is this a third?
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As we were saying....scroll down this page and read all about dear old Johnnie Hoskins...and read what it says about Maitland in December 1923.
http://www.speedway-...Years%201-5.pdf
JACK KEEN,
ERITH, KENT
Couple of interesting quotes from the programme for the inaugural NZGP; naturally Johnnie Hoskins gets a guernsey since he was born in Kiwiland:
Here's one about him that's indisputable - "The man who arguably invented Speedway as we know it today". Couldn't agree more, since we've been arguing about it for months!
Here's the opinion of Bill Buckley, the man who put his money where his mouth is and brought us the show: "Speedway has the 'Kiwi Brand' stamped all over it; it was invented by Johnnie Hoskins, a New Zealand-born Promoter, who started Motorcycle Speedway promotion in Australia in 1923".
That's Bill's opinion, and I'm sure he's entitled to it, and I'm equally sure that our amateur historians and self-aggrandisers on here will argue against it until they're blue in the face; much good may it do them.
The very latest on an an intriguing matter. And it's all back to square one in Johnnie Hoskins favour by the look of it.
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The London Speedways discussion site has set up a thread for the Anglia Junior League but it will probably only carry details of Lakeside Hammers and Rye House as they are the only London teams involve in the competition. Take a look here for some details.
Hmm, with a rather pedantic posting that Rye House & Lakeside shouldn't be called 'Anglia' but 'London ' instead!! Crickey! Actually neither are in London boroughs (and London expands way out these days) so don't think that's accurate and in any case a 'London Junior League' would not get very far!! I think Michael's idea of a web site should be welcomed.
Totally agree!! Leave the guy alone, he is providing a service and hardly hurting anyone.
If you don't like it Jack Keen I'd say the simple answer is to stay away from the site!! Surely not too difficult?
Regarding Rye House and Lakeside I think they like their London area links. Lakeside were involved in reviving the LONDON RIDERS CHAMPIONSHIP a few years ago, and there was also around that time of them competing for a revived LONDON CUP (which never came about).
Did the London Speedways site call for a London Junior League to be formed? If they did, that is crazy.
Hmm, with a rather pedantic posting that Rye House & Lakeside shouldn't be called 'Anglia' but 'London ' instead!! Crickey! Actually neither are in London boroughs (and London expands way out these days) so don't think that's accurate and in any case a 'London Junior League' would not get very far!! I think Michael's idea of a web site should be welcomed.
I have just been on London Speedways and the site does not make any comment about the team locations. That remark as I see it was made by a site member?
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The London Speedways discussion site has set up a thread for the Anglia Junior League but it will probably only carry details of Lakeside Hammers and Rye House as they are the only London teams involve in the competition. Take a look here for some details.
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Keep up to date with all the latest Cycle Speedway news at http://www.spokesman...o.uk/index.html
This link keeps getting posted on here by various people. Is it co-ordinated or just that previous Posts are not read? I think this one for The Spokesman has been posted three times?
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From the Guiness Book of Records 1986:
SPEEDWAY ORIGINS: Motorcycle racing on large dirt track surfaces has been traced back to 1902 in the United States. The first organised ‘short track’ races were at the West Maitland (New South Wales Australia) Agricultural Show in November 1923. The sport evolved in Great Britain with small diameter track racing at Droylsden, Greater Manchester on 25 June 1927 and a cinder track event at High Beech, Essex on 19 Feb 1928.
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The reason I gave the tram story was because it is that "essential" for all historical researchers - the primary source. When that is wrong errors will be repeated for perpetuity. There is no way that a researcher can know it was wrong - and subsequent errors and corrections will go unnoticed.
Are you saying that if there was a primary source error in the Maitland papers in December 1923 and their version of events was wrong, there is still a possibility that speedway's origins can be attributed to Johnnie Hoskins after all?
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Here’s the actual transcript of the item about Johnnie Hoskins in ‘Speedway Star’ Narch 17 2012 edition. JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt track meeting in the world. Certainly he was secretary of the Local Hunter River Agricultural and Horticultural Society when he decided to put on some motorcycle races as part of the annual show. It was hardly a headline act and for the 1923 event on December 15, the poster bills had motor-cycling racing in the smallest print of all, overshadowed by the star act, Tom Handley's Famous Buck-jumping Show. But the bikes caught the imagination of the locals and the shrewd and extrovert Hoskins, born in New Zealand in 1892, quickly latched on to the idea that it could be his key to the fortune jar. He started running meetings every week, and before long was looking to widen his horizons beyond the small New South Wales community of West Maitland. He, his wife Audrey and their son Ian, sold their few belongings, left their rented house and journeyed down to Newcastle where he audaciously ran his own World Championship. He lost his shirt in Sydney, travelled over to Perth, where his share of the first gate at Claremont was the princely sum of £750 (£35,000 in today's world). Johnnie was never short of coming forward and was a one man publicity machine and it was swiftly accepted that he had invented speedway racing. He was much in demand and set sail from Australia bound for the UK knowing he was wanted to take over the management of ten tracks.Incidentally, while I'm considering a response to your earlier detailed forensic dissection of my post I wonder if you could define "amateur historian". As you know I worked at The British Museum for 37 years and have had 23 history books published. I'd be interested in your definition of "amateur" in this context and whether you consider yourself to be a professional historian. Your score somehow seems to not count my post. So not biased at all then..... Peter Oakes doesn't seem to be as sure as some of you on here that Maitland was the first meeting. In fact the meeting was on grass and as we know there had been other dirt track meetings before. Hoskins did not travel to Newcastle from Maitland. He went to Sydney first and then on to Newcastle, where he took up the position as secretary for an already well-established speedway. The reference to a World Championship is interesting as I have never come across that before. Perhaps you can expand on that kennylane. Do you have the contemporary references to it as they would be very interesting to see?Hold on! I didn't claim that Johnnie Hoskins staged a world championship in the 1920s. That was mentioned by the respected Peter Oakes in his article in last week's 'Speedway Star.' Don't shoot the messenger!
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Elsewhere on another discussion group I have read a rather odd Post. It says that Johnnie Hoskins wrote some programmes notes in which he denied that he started speedway in the UK in 1928.
I wonder why this matter was brought into the public domain because I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Johnnie started British speedway in 1928?
As they say "yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice!"
JACK KEEN,
ERITH, KENT
That comment you refer to is what our Australian friend BFD so rightly calls a Red Herring by that lot.
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Speedway Star, page 25, March 17, 2012 -
JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE
The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt-track meeting in the world.
JACK KEEN,
ERITH, KENT
Here’s the actual transcript of the item about Johnnie Hoskins in ‘Speedway Star’ Narch 17 2012 edition.
JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE
The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt track meeting in the world.
Certainly he was secretary of the Local Hunter River Agricultural and Horticultural Society when he decided to put on some motorcycle races as part of the annual show.
It was hardly a headline act and for the 1923 event on December 15, the poster bills had motor-cycling racing in the smallest print of all, overshadowed by the star act, Tom Handley's Famous Buck-jumping Show.
But the bikes caught the imagination of the locals and the shrewd and extrovert Hoskins, born in New Zealand in 1892, quickly latched on to the idea that it could be his key to the fortune jar.
He started running meetings every week, and before long was looking to widen his horizons beyond the small New South Wales community of West Maitland.
He, his wife Audrey and their son Ian, sold their few belongings, left their rented house and journeyed down to Newcastle where he audaciously ran his own World Championship.
He lost his shirt in Sydney, travelled over to Perth, where his share of the first gate at Claremont was the princely sum of £750 (£35,000 in today's world).
Johnnie was never short of coming forward and was a one man publicity machine and it was swiftly accepted that he had invented speedway racing.
He was much in demand and set sail from Australia bound for the UK knowing he was wanted to take over the management of ten tracks.
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A strong case on your part Norbold but equally so the FIM post must also have credence. The FIM is the official voice of affiliated motorcycle sport and must surely have checked their view on the start of speedway at Maitland.
And the message 14 re Maitland 1923 and Brisbane i 1927 also gives Australian support to speedway/s birth at Maitland on December 15 1923. I take it you did click in to read them?
May I add this to an interesting debate. Note the reference to Johnnie Hoskins and Maitland 1923:
http://groups.yahoo....ount=20&dir=asc
http://groups.yahoo....tart=21&dir=asc
These two items have been posted in the Early Days Beginnings photo album. Primarily they deal with AJ Hunting at Brisbane in 1927, but of significance there is also mention of Johnnie Hoskins at Maitland in December 1923. Both references mention “the start of speedway.”
Here is the text of Tony Webb’s original email to me:
On 15 Mar 2012, at 00:42, Tony Webb wrote:
There is an interesting article in this new book which credits Johnny Hoskins with Maitland and A J Hunting refining it as a sport and taking it worldwide!
``
150 Stories' to celebrate Brisbane
A new book '150 Stories' is being launched to help Brisbane celebrate its 150th birthday with tales of the city's history. This is not just another history book. It’s 150 vivid snapshots of our city across the 19th, 20th and 21st Centuries,
’’ Cr Newman said.``It’s a book dedicated to the people and stories that have made up Brisbane’s history. By focusing on the people, it’s a unique and personal look at our city.’‘
Brisbane 150 Stories covers well-known events such as the Brisbane riot of 1866 and the 1974 floods to obscure tales like the escaped tiger rampage on Queen St in 1888. It traces the rise of popular culture such as the city’s prominence as a music hotbed in the ‘70s and the creation of the Brisbane Lions AFL team.
Even long-term Brisbane residents will learn new things about their city through the book - iconic dance venue Cloudland was originally intended as a larger Luna Park attraction.
Five writers authored the book, including Council historians Brian Rough, Carmel Black, Frank McBride and the late Helen Taylor with Heather Richardson.
Books retail at $44.95 and are available from selected retail outlets, the Museum of Brisbane and Brisbane City Council libraries and service centres.
<Hunting AJ.jpg><Hunting aj 1927.jpg>
The original source is at - http://sports.groups...ldtimespeedway/
Sadly our amateur historian wears blinkers when it comes to reading anything that proves he's wrong, kennylane.
Hi BFD: So you think Norbold doesn't read links when they come up on here? I also especially thought the one about Maitland 1923 and Brisbane 1927 was fairly specific. And personally I also found the previous FIM post quite interesting in regard to the start of speedway.
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The major argument against speedway originating on 15 December 1923 at Maitland is the Monday December 17, 1923 Maitland Daily Mercury's report on the Saturday December 15 carnival, which says: -
"For the first time motor cycle racing was introduced into the programme and the innovation proved most successful. In an exhibition ride at the last sports several riders gave the track a good test and they then expressed themselves satisfied with it. They also stated that it was better than several other tracks that have been used for this kind of sport on a number of occasions..."
Note the last sentence particularly. Maitland’s own paper did not see the meeting on 15 December as anything new. The riders themselves were comparing Maitland to “several other tracks”
Even without going in to the developments in the USA stretching back to before the First World War and just taking Australia, the fact is that there are many reports of meetings similar to that put on by Hoskins prior to 1923 in places such as Townsville (as early as 1916), Rockhampton and Newcastle. Eleven months prior to the Maitland December 1923 carnival, which, incidentally, was held on a grass track, motor cycles had raced on a cinder circuit under lights at Adelaide’s Thebarton Oval.
It is true that what Maitland gave the sport of speedway was continuity by providing speedway on a regular basis as between 15 December 1923 and 26 April 1924 there were no fewer than 15 carnival meetings featuring motor cycle racing, with promoters Campbell and DuFrocq staging six of them and including a rider by the name of Charlie Datson who was to become one of the leading pioneers of the new sport of speedway.
But the meeting on 17 December was nothing new. It was not the ORIGIN of speedway.
A strong case on your part Norbold but equally so the FIM post must also have credence. The FIM is the official voice of affiliated motorcycle sport and must surely have checked their view on the start of speedway at Maitland.
And the message 14 re Maitland 1923 and Brisbane i 1927 also gives Australian support to speedway/s birth at Maitland on December 15 1923. I take it you did click in to read them?
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How do you regard this comment from
Re: MAITLAND SPEEDWAY ANNIVERSARY
-This is an observation on how we can sometimes get offside on recording history and this particulary relates to Maitland, .
Anyone involved in biographies and family histories would be aware that the
memories of family members are often selective or tinted by the passage of time.
If we are documenting these memoirs, for future generations, the trick is to
merge, or factor in, those recollections with the historical facts that we can
access to through the wonders of information technology We should try and nuture contacts with the few remaining people who have contacts with the pre war years...
The problem, as I see it is in the way we compose internet postings, often a
missing or ill chosen word,sparks off reactions from both sides. Of this I am as
guilty as the next person.
Face to face interviews are still the most productive because we establish a
relationship at the outset. If we look at the style of our respected writers,
Basil Storey,John Chaplin, Eric Linden, John Hyam, Cyril May etc, they all
based their stories on personal contact and got to know their subjects. Often
they travelled many miles to produce that copy. I think that John C travelled
to Australia to see Vic Duggan and Graham Warren. Another writer who has made
the effort to get out and meet pioneers is Steve Magro, well respected by the
older riders. This takes time and money.
I have tried to follow that approach over the last five years, words of wisdom
came from Reg Fearman, "Get out and see them before it is too late!" This
personal approach has reaped untold benefits. Over recent years I have shared
memories with visits to speedway families. I would like to think that I have
gained the confidence of those I have visited. Certainly doors have opened for
me that were firmly closed in the past.
Sadly there are very few identities still around with connections to the pre war
days,we should value and respect the remaining contacts we have. Ian Hoskins is
one who comes to mind, I wonder how many present day writers have attempted to
gain a face to face with Ian. From what we read he is wary of new historians,
although I have been around speedway for a long time, I would be placed in that
category when it comes to speedway history. A talk with Ian would be on my
bucket list, maybe we would agree to differ, but at least it would be eye to
eye.
In my home city of Brisbane we have a small network of historians who meet from
time to time, sharing info and material this has proved beneficial. Venues are
always an issue but I have a concept in mind to expand on in the near future.
thanks for reading this
Tony
How do you regard this comment from the FIM? http://www.fim-live....f-track-racing/
"The first vehicles created at the end of the 19th century were immediately put to run on roads or – if they existed – tracks. The first motorcycles were not very fast, but within a few years started to reach very high speeds. The idea of using an oval track or an athletic track around a football ground or even a horse track, came very early. Mentions made in California in 1902, in South Africa in 1907 or around a football ground in Ipswich (GBR) in 1904 are just a few of them.
"But the first event, with a real structure, is generally considered to be the one held in Australia in 1923. Australians took everything off the motorcycle which was not essential, in order to reduce weight, and put the bikes for racing on oval grounds. The first real record of a dirt track meeting was on Saturday 15 December 1923 in West Maitland. The event was organised by John Hoskins, who is generally considered as the “father” of speedway competition.
"Success came very fast, and within a couple of years other tracks were built in various cities all over Australia. News was sent from Australia to Great Britain and the idea came up to hold such an event there. It was first scheduled in November 1927 but permission was refused by the authorities. The event was finally staged on Sunday 19 February 1928 in High Beech."
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Besides Johnnie Hoskins' influence in regard to Maitland in 1923, there is substantial evidence in his writings that he played a key role in popularising speedway on the USA's East Coast in 1933. Johnnie was a major figure in getting speedway organised at the Brooklyn Stadium, Coney Island, that year.
JACK KEEN,
ERITH, KENT
Not according to your latest finding on the oldtimespeedway yahoo site as follows:
--- In oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com, "jack.keen@..." <jack.keen@...> wrote:
Source: THE TELEGRAPH, March 8, 2012;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;RE - JACK ORMSTON -
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
NO mention of Coney Island, USA, but there is of Madison Square Gardens, New York
:::::::::::::
"In the winter of 1932-33 he led a British team to Australia, winning the individual unofficial world series in Sydney. As he paraded the trophy around the track he was roundly booed, a reflection not only of the traditional Aussie reaction to being beaten by a Pom, but also of the anti-English feeling whipped up that winter by the "bodyline" cricket series. With the Australian rider Frank Arthur, Ormston then formed a company, with the support of the manager and promoter Johnnie Hoskins, to take a group of riders to New York with a view to operating speedway at Madison Square Garden.
"Despite the harassments of Tammany Hall and the Mafia (everyone wanted a share of the action) they succeeded in getting an option for "the Garden" and prospects looked good. Then Ormston received a telegram telling him that his father was seriously ill; he immediately left for England, arriving home in time to see his father, who died that same evening. Without Ormston's leadership and money, the New York venture collapsed."
JACK KEEN,
ERITH, KENT
This topic had an airing in 2006 on the New Zealand site at http://www.historicspeedway.co.nz/
This is Ian Hoskins comments in reply to the start of speedway debate:
“Further to your excellent article on the alleged origins of speedway racing, I thank you for allowing me the right of reply. I agree that various new 'historians' of the sport have felt it would gain them credit if they could debunk the story that speedway, as we know it today, truly began under my father's banner at West Maitland, NSW, Australia on Sunday, December 15th 1923.
“I agree that there were previous isolated motor cycle events that occurred earlier than this in Australia and even America. At least the historians have to be congratulated on their research into newspaper files. But, we may as well go back as far as the Circus Maximus in ancient Rome, where chariot racing was staged before factions of thousands of devoted supporters, who cheered their favorites on to victory in races that were likewise held in an anti-clockwise direction and had chariots broadsiding on the corners.
“Unfortunately for these scribes, none of the events they have dug out from the files, led anywhere. Whereas, Johnnie Hoskins was the first promoter to put up a cash reward for the winner at West Maitland, and from the huge turn-out this novel event generated, speedway began to form in Maitland with a cinder track, rules and regulations, and the broadsiding of bikes in the corners. No previous event inspired such a metamorphosis as this. Finally, there was professionalism in speedway, the rider could live from his earnings on the track, and men such as Ron Johnson, Billy Lamont and Vic Huxley, willingly left Australia to try their luck in England in l928.”
JACK KEEN,
ERITH, KENT
This writing by Ian Hoskins looks pretty definitive to me and as he obviously knew Johnnie Hoskins far better than anyone else his opinions deserve respect and to be accepted. I think the last paragraph is of great importance and summarises adequately how he feels about those who seek to belittle his father's pioneering efforts to create and then further establish speedway racing.
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Shock horror! Hoskins is pro-Hoskins!
I apologise for confusion but when I said "More credence here to the claims made by the pro-Hoskins Brigade IMO" I was referring to BigFatDave and Jack Keen not Ian Hoskins, the latter having stated his case rather well.
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This topic had an airing in 2006 on the New Zealand site at http://www.historicspeedway.co.nz/
This is Ian Hoskins comments in reply to the start of speedway debate:
“Further to your excellent article on the alleged origins of speedway racing, I thank you for allowing me the right of reply. I agree that various new 'historians' of the sport have felt it would gain them credit if they could debunk the story that speedway, as we know it today, truly began under my father's banner at West Maitland, NSW, Australia on Sunday, December 15th 1923.
“I agree that there were previous isolated motor cycle events that occurred earlier than this in Australia and even America. At least the historians have to be congratulated on their research into newspaper files. But, we may as well go back as far as the Circus Maximus in ancient Rome, where chariot racing was staged before factions of thousands of devoted supporters, who cheered their favorites on to victory in races that were likewise held in an anti-clockwise direction and had chariots broadsiding on the corners.
“Unfortunately for these scribes, none of the events they have dug out from the files, led anywhere. Whereas, Johnnie Hoskins was the first promoter to put up a cash reward for the winner at West Maitland, and from the huge turn-out this novel event generated, speedway began to form in Maitland with a cinder track, rules and regulations, and the broadsiding of bikes in the corners. No previous event inspired such a metamorphosis as this. Finally, there was professionalism in speedway, the rider could live from his earnings on the track, and men such as Ron Johnson, Billy Lamont and Vic Huxley, willingly left Australia to try their luck in England in l928.”
JACK KEEN,
ERITH, KENT
More credence here to the claims made by the pro-Hoskins Brigade IMO.
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This is always a good day out. My particular input is that I have body colours signed by every living World Individual Speedway Champion, that will be on show. Bikewise, I'll leave the JAP, Jawa, Weslake & Godden at home, as there will be plenty of those wonderful machines on show. This year, I will have laydown machines from Tony Rickardsson, Leigh Adams, Jason Crump & Tomasz Gollob, for any of you that want to climb on, and have your picture taken. Bring your cameras along. Looking forward to meeting all of you there. This gathering is for you brilliant fans to have your day. Weather forecast is pretty good.
Please come and say "hello".
Tim.
I've just seen a weather forecast for Sunday and it gives a maximum high of six degrees centigrade. That's 42.8 fahrenheit.
Maitland Speedway Anniversary
in Years Gone By
Posted
I am fairly certain that in his book 'Thrilling the Million' that Tom Stenner credits Johnny Hoskins with the start of speedway at West Maitland in December 1923. It's hard for me to be certain now because it was many, many moons ago that I read the book which was published around 1934.
One thing that still stands out in my mind from the book is an amazing crash photo taken at High Beech and featuring, so I recall, Ron Johnson and Bobby Blake.
Be that as it may, we still need to trace one of Johnny's early books to see if he has anything to say on this ongoing and engrossing topic.