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kennylane

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Posts posted by kennylane

  1. Posted

    Can anyone supply the lyrics of this song that the rakers etc. marched out to at Bristol and possibly Wimbledon in the 1950s?

     

    Time fades the memory - the years are marching on. But wasn't this also the early post-war theme song at New Cross with a version by the great Al Bowlly? Or am I just confused?

  2. Posted

    What makes you say there will be no "home town" contender?

    What about the wildcard?

     

    And who does New Zealand have of the grade to be a wild card? But I suppose that as the competition directs it there will be one.

     

    I see another 'informed' self-appointed expert has predicted doom & gloom. I take it you won't be attending, Kennylane?

     

    Too true mate!

  3. Posted

    I am baffled why a Speedway GP is taking place in Auckland. It is not a speedway-bike minded country any more. There are three main centres from what I can see = Rosebank, Moore Park and Oreti Park - and they do not run on a weekly basis. The only other tracks that sometimes (and rarely) that stage speedway bikes as support to car races are at Palmerston North and Kihikihi.

    Contrary to this, I estimate there must be between 25 and 30 venues staging various car race formulas through from midgets and sprint cars to big 240ci stock cars.

    On the other hand sidecars are featured regularly at tracks where there are no solo races, Gisborne is one such track that springs tp mind but they also dominate at those tracks classified as main speedway centres.

    The fact that the Speedway GP had to play second fiddle to the cars at Western Springs - after their season had ended - shows where New Zealand priorities lie. I will concede, however, that the delay between cars and the GP at Western Springs was to adapt the track for the one-off bike venture.

    I have no doubt that a big crowd will be there - many of them not speedway fans - but merely out for a festive day as they would be for a big pop concert. A few may like the calibre of racing they see at the GP and be tempted to then go to an all-kiwi speedway. They will then have a cultural shock - rather like one would if enticed to football after a Real Madrid-Barcelnoa clash, then going to see a Blue Square South or similar fixture.

    But in my opinion hopes that the GP will rekindle New Zealand bike speedway just is not going to happen.

    JACK KEEN,

    ERITH, KENT

     

    This is the best analysis so far of the New Zealand speedway/car scene. There will be a good crowd at the GP in March but it will not spark a revival for the bikes down under any more than Greg Hancock's GP success has sparked a massive USA speedway bikes revival. The event will attract the curious looking for a day out but is unlikely to turn them into the speedway faithful.

    Many people will be there with no idea of what speedway is - no background knowledge which is essential - and soon look for another big attraction for a day out - like a pop concert with performing names that are known worldwide.

    To many New Zealanders going to the GP out of curiosity the riders names mean nothing - added to the fact there is no "home town" contender for the event.

  4. Posted

    Happy Birthday to speedway. December 15, 1923. West Maitland, Australia. And best regards to the late Johnnie Hoskins. Just check these great links. And do I see a reference to Johnnie Hoskins riding as well?

    http://www.vintagesp.../Maitland3.html

    http://speedwayarchives.homestead.com/ (see the reference and photo of Bill Crampton towards the bottom of the page).

    http://www.dickbarri...way/history.htm

    http://www.ma.org.au/index.php?id=116

    http://www.fim-live....f-track-racing/

    JACK KEEN,

    ERITH, KENT

     

    So Johnnie did claim the name of speedway then?

     

     

    You missed out a link to Wikipedia, Jack. Why's that?

     

    This comment by norbold does need an answer surely?

  6. Posted

    I have trawled through the Speedway Researcher for Middlesbrough in the 1961. It does say at the bottom that results for some matches are still to be recorded. In those that are, I found no trace of a Wal Morton-Geoff Pymar pairing si I would query that claim about them forming the oldest pairing in the sport that season. Pymar in fact had only a brief stay with Middlesbrough and by mid-season had moved to Wolverhampton. Morton also seems to have had an erratic season and missed quite a few matches. However, it could be that they did form a pairing for one of the matches not yet up on Speedway Researcher so I do not entirely dispute the claim made in this matter.

  7. Posted

    I think we may have seen the last of the talented Lee Strudwick on speedway. There's a driver of that name (one of 140 starters) listed for banger races at Wimbledon Stadium on Sunday (December 4) according to the Spedeworth Motorsports site. Does anyone know if it is the same person?

  8. Posted

    I actually have a spreadsheet with all this information, so it's easy for me to list them. I have included all finals for each rider.

     

    Cyril Roger - 1949, 1950, 1952, 1955, 1959

    Split Waterman - 1950 - 1954 (inclusive)

    Danny Dunton - 1950

    Arthur Payne - 1950, 1952, 1953 (Res)

    Dick Bradley - 1951 - 1953 (inclusive)

    Fred Brand - 1954

    Freddie Williams - 1950-1953 (inclusive), 1954 (Res)

    Chum Taylor - 1960

    Eric Boothroyd - 1956

    Derek Close - 1952

    Geoff Mardon - 1951 (Res), 1953, 1954, 1959

    Billy Bales - 1955

    Olle Nygren - 1953, 1954, 1955, 1958, 1959

    Rune Sormander - 1953, 1957 - 1962 (inclusive)

    Jack Geran - 1957, 1958

    Bryan Elliott - 1960

    Ron Johnston - 1955, 1956, 1958, 1960

    George White - 1957, 1959

    Ian Williams - 1957

     

    Steve

     

    Thank you very much.

  9. Posted

    There is a chart showing just that in Maurice Jones's book "World Speedway Final". I don't know if there is an on-line equivalent. But I can copy out the firsts and last of all of them from the book if you would like to see it.

     

    hank you for the offer. And I see there's also now a message detailing all this information.

  10. Posted

    I reckon the oldest surviving World Finalist field would look like this:

     

    1. Cyril Roger 89 - born 27.12.1921

    2. Split Waterman 88 - born 27.7.1923

    3. Danny Dunton 87 - born 13.5.1924

    4. Arthur Payne 87 - born 30.8.1924

    5. Dick Bradley 86 - born 28.11.1924

    6. Fred Brand 86 - born 3.2.1925

    7. Freddie Williams 85 - born 12.3.1926

    8. Chum Taylor 84 - born 4.4.1927

    9. Eric Boothroyd 84 - born 26.4.1927

    10. Derick Close 84 - born 13.5.1927

    11. Geoff Mardon 83 - born 24.11.1927

    12. Billy Bales 82 - born 6.6.1929

    13. Olle Nygren 81 - born 11.11.1929

    14. Rune Sormander 81 - born 29.11.1929

    15. Jack Geran 81 - born 10.12.1929

    16. Ron Johnston 80 - born 31.12.1930

     

    17. George White 80 - born 24.5.1931

    18. Ian Williams 80 - born 4.8.1931

     

    Unless I have missed someone or unless Bryan Elliott (12.4.1930) is still with us.

     

    Arthur Wright is a 'mere' 78 by my reckoning - born 14.10.1933

     

    This is a really interesting thread and I love to see all the names of real speedway greats who are still with us. Any idea where I can find a chart to show when these riders made their first and last appearances in the 'real world final' please? And was it confirmed that Brian Elliott is still alive - I think he was last heard of living in Australia about two years ago. I guess these world championship appearances were all between 1949 and about 1966?

  11. Posted

    I think everyone is missing the point in this. oldtimespeedway discussion group did not claim that Johnnie Hoskins was/had been a speedway rider nor, as has been evidenced, did Johnnie Hoskins. All that has happened was that the initial post to this thread brought attention to a Danish website where a photo appeared saying that it was Johnnie Hoskins racing on speedway.

    Since then, there has been a further comment on ots that the rider seen in the poor quality newspaper photo and named as Johnnie Hoskins was/could have been a rider who used the name 'Johnnie Hoskins' when he rode on the continent (early 1930s meetings).

    To me, that seems a good answer - although no further information has come forward as to who that rider was.

     

    There are some still around who seem to think oldtimespeedway was claiming the rider photo was Johnnie Hoskins when a good read of the posts on their site shows this isn't the case and all they were trying to verify was who the said trackman was and why a 1932 Danish newspaper stated it was him. For me I like theory that it was a British based rider who liked to use Johnnie's name when he rode in Europe.

  12. Posted

    I also offer this for discussion.

     

    The following article was taken from “The Motor Cycle” April 1923. Written by an Englishman who was racing in the USA 1922 note the date 1922. A similar article was published in "Motorcycling"

    "Fascinating Dirt Track Racing"

    “Exciting but not really dangerous sport---An American idea that England might imitate” As an Englishman in America, keenly interested in motor cycling, especially racing, I notice several of your correspondents seem to have mistaken the ideas about racing conditions in the USA. Saucer tracks are a thing of the past; they went out of vogue about 1915. The present day racing is conducted entirely on dirt tracks of half to one mile or sometimes 2 miles to the lap. They are to all intents and purposes unbanked; that is they are, on average only two to three feet higher on the outside than on the inside as they are used extensively for horse trotting races as well as for motorcycles and cars. The surface of a good track is of Clay, which is rolled and dragged, and usually has a cushion of softish earth on top. The tracks are generally surrounded by wooden fences inside and out. During 1922 I do not recollect having heard of one single race meet conducted on anything other than dirt tracks and most of them were half mile tracks. There is also a certain very limited amount of record breaking carried out on banked Board tracks of one mile or more to the lap, in the Los Angeles and San Francisco districts. (Evidence suggests that board track racing continued up to 1928.. NB) I have raced several times at Brooklands and last summer (1922) I raced in seven Half mile dirt track meets over here. The dirt track as an engine testing ground cannot compare with Brooklands. By taking big risks a man often beats a faster machine ridden by a more cautious rider. No one would ever win at Brooklands by riding the “turns” two feet from the inside. On a dirt track the going is often best right next to the inside fence and the more daring riders will slither and slide around just close to the fence as they can keep, also no fast machine can be ridden wide open around a half mile track; the machine would turn completely round and go down, though some of the best riders will slide all the way around the turn with the back wheel twelve inches further out than it should be. This sounds impossible but never the less it happens. To all intents and purposes one steers by sliding the back wheel and the peculiar nature of the track surface makes this very much easier than it appears. From a sporting point of view the half mile unbanked dirt track is better than any other form of racing except the T.T.. So long as there is a bank of soft earth between the riders and the fences to prevent some of them taking undue risks cornering, it is the most fascinating sport I have ever gone in for and provided one wears leather clothes one can come off any number of time without serious consequences to rider or machine. The writer would like to see half a dozen dirt tracks scattered over England. They are cheap to construct, the gate money would more than pay for them, and they would give a large number of private owners a chance of motor cycle racing in one of its most fascinating forms.

     

    Englands first Speedway rider? :unsure:

     

    That's a wodge of reading! Didn't they know about paragraphs in those day? The first English speedway rider - wasn't that Freddie Hore? Who was the Englishman who compiled this tirade of reading matter posted above?

  13. Posted · Edited by kennylane

    The following has been passed on to me, it is not research of mine, but I offer it for the appraisal of the discerning folk following this saga.

     

    While browsing through some back numbers of the Speedway Star I found this headline

     

    "The men who started speedway,"

     

    A full page, without a creditation, Paul Parish was the editor, so we will hold him accountable, The appeared article on 11/2/1966.

     

    The article in brief , is saying that JHS is researching a new book assumably Speedway Walkabout, and he had to do a lot of research, he contacted the New South Wales Morning Herald in a plea for information [ so you see he was not relying on his memory!]

     

    JHS is reported to have recieved a reply from Bill Crampton who rode in the first meeting.

     

    Bills letter implies that Maitland resident Len Upfold, a member of the Hamilton motor cycle club, had a vision of motorcycles racing under lights.

     

    Len approached JHS, with a view to motorcycles racing at the Maitland showground. JHS then invited the motor cycle club to the showground on a sunday morning, date not given to try out the track

     

    Riders were Bill Crampton, Les Upfold, George Ross, Andy Eyre, Bill Cogan and Claude Rankin. reference is made to JHS starting on a Triumph. Riders were timed against the clock.

     

    It was agreed that the following saturday these riders would race under lights at the showground with members of Maitland motor cycle club

     

    Bill Crampton concludes his letter by saying the spectators were in favour of the motor cycles so negotiations were entered into with the Hamilton motorcycle club for them to appear on December 15 1923.

     

    Bill states that he was 65 and his memory was as good as it was in 1923.

     

    It would appear that the archives of the Maitland or the Hamilton motorcycle clubS could hold the clues to the true origins of speedway

     

    Now we have another pre JHS visionary one Len Upfold!!

     

    over to you guys and gals

     

    You are in danger of disappearing up you know where by going round in circles! The Bill Crampton letter has already been up on this thread several pages ago! :rolleyes:

  18. Posted

    It was midget cars and few other tracks which no longer ran bikes regularly participated at that time, including Stoke, Coventry,and I believe White CIty Glasgow & Stamford Bridge.

     

    Midgets also ran at Belle Vue & there was a one-off meeting at Marine Gardens in 1938. Post war there were midgets at various venues, including Perry Barr and Old Meadowbank (1954).

     

    Derek Bridgett who is related to Alan & the late Bill is the guru on this and has published a book on the sport.

     

    Derek Bridgett - a brother of former speedawy rider and speedway promoter Bill Bridgett - is involved with this site that covers the history of British midget car racing. http://midgetcarpanorama.proboards.com

  19. Posted

    Come on DK/Norbold. What happened to the meeting we were going to have in a local pub and a look around where the track was. Some of us maybe running out of time you know. <img src="http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> A nice pub lunch and a walk around where the track was. It would be nice if it was about the time John Chaplin and Norman Jacob's book came out on Tom Farndon - that would be a nice touch. I might get the old bugger JC there in person with a bit of luck.

     

    Plus, if he could find the right number bus out of Streatham 'Speedyguy' if he has a night off from lamp posts and get the 'SOUTH LONDON PRESS' involved with a review.. I would be happy to mention it on my New Cross website and create a page for it on Facebook. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_smile_approve.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":approve:" border="0" alt="icon_smile_approve.gif" />

     

    (Can you find your way south of the river Derek?)

     

    I'll do it if needs be but I will need some recognizance from DK perhaps regarding pubs etc. Over to you....

     

    In the words of the famous song "Why are we waiting..?"

  21. Posted · Edited by kennylane

    In what way? You want me to tell you? You are asking me? Your posts on the speedway history forum are generally the most negative posts imaginable. Personally, I dont give a toss if a book comes out with a title that is written that has been used before or not. If its a book that has been well written and has pics I like, I will buy it. Whatever the costs. Why speedyguy deletes posts its is up to him, and who generally comes over as a 'brick short of a load' as you do. This speedway vintage thing is very small and getting smaller as we all get alll older and a younger generation cares lest but whilst we try to keep it alive its not what matters to me more than anything else...Least of all your sad comments to try make yourselves to be more interested than you really are it seems...

     

    May I intervene without upsetting you? I think Jack Keen makes a good sensible point in what he says, while I also feel it's of interest to know that there have been two books with similar titles. There's no harm in mentioning that. It won't stop me buying the latest book in any way. When I first saw the mention about two titles I thought how interesting that was. I don't know what the speedway history forum is but if I was Mr Keen I'd pull my membership of it after reading this. From the way you put this response over it looks to me that you have a deeper resentment of both Jack Keen and speedyguy beyond their harmless mentions on here that there have been two books with similar titles. Grow up man! As I said at the start I don't want to upset you but fancy I probably have.

  24. Posted · Edited by kennylane

    Back in the 60’/70s world championship road racing (or MotoGP as it is now) the GP’s were run under the auspices of FIM but there was no one body or organisation then that had any promoting rights and each individual organiser ran their own countries GP and negotiated with the riders directly for start money/expenses. Prize money was generally poor and the tracks consisted frequently of street type circuits and therefore they were very dangerous. At least 6 riders on average lost their lives from the lowest calibre riders to the top men every season.

     

    GP riders of the day like Mike Hailwood, Jim Redman, Giacomo Agostini and Bill Ivy etc could not make the Gp’s pay as the money was so poor. So they frequently raced in non championship events around the world to make some additional money. That is why it was great for me to go to Brands Hatch, Mallory Park and Cadwell Park to see on a regular basis these top guys in action on their exotic grand prix machinery at local circuits. These riders were also factory/works riders so had to compete in the poor paying GP’s so that they might win world championships but they did have some salary to help them financially, unlike the most of the riders who made up the field or privateers and who simply relied just on the start and prize money to live. No works contract - no salaries.

     

    There is a comparison here as I see it in that in road racing during the 60’s and 70’s all the top riders raced most weekends at non championship events to earn some decent money as the GP’s system was poor paying, though world championships and its prestige were at stake and so it is with speedway, its league team events taking part in UK, Sweden & Poland etc creates the money for the riders as the additional financial rewards derived solely from the SGP’s is insufficient at present. But attendance is essential for any rider in SGP for personal glory and to reach the pinnacle of their chosen sport.

     

    Over the years from the early 50’s there were the occasional strikes over the poor financial rewards for taking part at the highest level of the sport, of motorcycle racing and the FIM would usually be heavy handed and issue fines and suspensions to miscreants; one Geoff Duke was suspended over striking for better pay for himself and other riders.

     

    In the late 70’s riders like Barry Sheene ,who was fast becoming an household name all over the world, and Kenny Roberts with the extra publicity they were creating, started to push the FIM hard over the money that GP organisers were dishing out to them which was as little as they could get away with, and again there were walkouts and strikes etc and in 1980 these riders, amongst others, were on the point of starting a break away series which had the desired effect of bringing the organisers of the GP’s and the FIM around the table and to increase the levels of both start and prize money. At the East German GP at Sachsenring for example attendances were 150,000 common, and the riders were receiving a pittance to race and to risk their lives. Being part of the Eastern Block then riders invariably were paid in goods/beer rather than cash.

     

    It slowly got better and better and I think eventually Bernie Ecclestone became involved and started to create a franchise for the broadcasting rights of the MotoGp series. Once formed I think he quickly got out of it and a Spanish company called Dorna took over the organising and broadcasting rights.

     

    My theory of a GP rider only is based on that the more the Speedway SGP is expanded globally as Ole Olsen suggests that along with it will also see the franchise for the broad casting rights increase, and it will also as a result advertising revenue increasing. MotoGP and WSB is generally awash with money now by comparison, and is completely now totally different commercially to what motor cycle racing was in the 60’s.

     

    As an example: Valentino Rossi is reputed to earn about £15m a year. A high percentage of this is his salary plus bonus’s from Ducati; a major manufacturer, and also from prize money, corporate endorsements and personal sponsorship, and his own merchandising brands etc. I appreciate that with speedway the money is not there from the engine and bike manufacturers, and that is unlikely to change for the foreseeable future. However, a few riders in MotoGP and WSB or BSB are having to contribute financially to the budget of a team for their place. Again, through personal sponsors and endorsements and the subsequent exposure they are still able to compete. I heard a rumour recently that one rider in this years MotoGP series had to contribute 10 Million Euro’s for the ride. He may have paid it himself or his personal sponsors may have helped him out.

     

    If you take out the Engine Manufacturers as a source of income from the equation from SGP as a brand and sold globally by the right people, I am sure that and that the extra exposure will garner more corporate sponsors for the events, the local authorities where the location to the SGP track adding to the pot, plus riders personal sponsors would be prepared to up the anti because of all the extra exposure that would follow, and that will assist the transition to the status of a contracted SGP rider only.

     

    Now, maybe I’m totally wrong, it’s just my theory though and I think that there is a good chance it might go that way subject to it being managed by the right people and the right decisions made. I realise that there is quite a long term contract already in place, but I was thinking generally longer term.

     

    My views have partly been brought about by the rather tenuous arrangement of the top speedway riders taking part in leagues in several countries from day to day, many may suffer from burn out and their form becomes jaded as a result, and therefore self defeating in what is actually earned, and that sort of activity must have a limited time span on a normal human being that has to perform day in and day out in a very competitive (not to mention dangerous) environment, and also mixed loyalties when dates clash etc, and the way that the various countries might start applying different specification requirements on the machines, as with the new silencer problem recently.

     

    When I am at a road racing track say Brands Hatch for a round of the BSB or Silverstone for WSB if I I walk around the paddock on a Saturday evening and there is a round of a SGP on somewhere, virtually the whole paddock; teams, riders, mechanics, marshals, are all in the hospitality units are watching it. It has a world appeal to people dialled into motor sport as enthusiasts. Many of these people I doubt would watch a League meeting, as there is hardly anything for them to connect with, the teams would mean nothing to most of them, and neither would most of the riders. What would help lift the profile of SGP even more though would be if another Barry Sheene or Valentino Rossi would start to emerge, and maybe a Japanese rider that was good enough to be involved at some stage, which would simply speed up the process.

     

    That's a brief summary of things! :unsure:

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