June01
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Posts posted by June01
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World Pairs Final 1979
Do you, or anyone else, have the date of this meeting please? I know it was rained off and staged the next day, but not sure if it was the 23rd, 24th or 26th June?
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As was pointed out earlier on this Thread, the majority of the fixture clashes were with Bjarne's Danish club Holsted, rather than his Polish club Pila, as Holsted ride on Fridays and Wednesdays. Yes, a number of previously arranged midweek Polish League 1 fixtures have now been moved to Sunday, but Pila are still scheduled to ride on Friday 5th August when Lakeside take on Belle Vue, and it looks as if Polish TV are now scheduling League 1 fixtures on a Friday night, which would lead to even more potential clashes with Lakeside fixtures.
Being rather lazy, has Bjarne been reclassified? Is he now a B rider? Just asking because if he's still an A grader the fixture clashes wouldn't matter as Nicki would get priority.
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I would think that is Constantine/Konstantin Svinkin, 1987 Russian U21 Champion.
Edit: sadly commemorated in the speedway memorial website http://speedwayinmemoriam.yolasite.com
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So your programme and speedway.org seem to agree, and arnie's link and Wikipedia seem to tally. The joys of statistics.
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Thanks, Arnie. Just wanted confirmation on the final scores for riders 5 (Marek Kepa), 7 (Anders Eriksson), 11 (Zbyszek Holy), 12 (Knud Ellegard), 14 (Josef Aigner) and 15 (Hans Albert Klinge) please, as speedway org say 8,9,7,11,4 and 6 points respectively.
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Are you willing to accept Jensen's score of 14 and Gundersen's 10 at face value or do you have other results to back that up?
Download the file above again - I've added reports from the following weeks' Star that mention Jensen's 13 and Gundersen finishing 5th. The 1986 yearbook page is also attached at the back.
I’m sure I work out my results the same way as you do – take the results, the riding order and the heat format to work out the heat details. I’m terribly anal when it comes to making sure my results are correct before I post them, and use as many sources as possible, which means it can take hours, or even days, to collate, cross reference, total and re-check.
In this instance, and having started the heat detail process as I usually do, I have no issues with any riders’ scores except the four previously mentioned – Olszak, Nielsen and now Gundersen and Jensen.
In answer to your question of whether I’m happy to accept the above poster’s result as definitive, well, no. I only had a quick look this morning without all the details in front of me, saw the “10” in red, and figured that was “end of problem”. I assumed Jensen’s 14 would fit in with the format/results when revised, and that it could have been a simple typo in the original report that filtered through to other sources...and who am I to question someone who was actually there?!
But now I’ve gone through the whole thing I am convinced Olszak (assuming he is O Keirjk in the SS?) and Nielsen scored 6 and 10 respectively, and thanks to your posting of the article which states “Jolly was one of two riders to beat Jensen. The other was…Gundersen” I’m also convinced Jensen finished on 13.
So it’s taken much longer than usual, but I think I’m finally there. Thanks to each and every poster on this thread, as your information has been invaluable, and here is what I think the final result was:
Junior European Championship - Lonigo - 22.07.78
1..Armando Gigliali (ITA)..0,0,0,1,1 = 2
2..Ryszard Romaniak (POL)..2,1,1,0,2 = 6
3..Roman Jankowski (POL)..1,1,0,0,0 = 2
4..Pavel Karnas (CZR)..3,1,3,1,0 = 8
5..Hans Nielsen (DEN)..3,3,0,1,3 = 10
6..Erik Gundersen (DEN)..2,2,3,2,2 = 11
7..Fausto Birbini (ITA)..0,0,2,2,1 = 5
8..Josef Juza (CZR)..1,0,3,2,2 = 8
9..Mieczyslaw Kmieciak (POL)..2,1,1,0,0 = 4
10..Henryk Olszak (POL)..1,3,0,2,0 = 6
11..Lillebror Johansson (SWE)..0,2,1,1,1 = 5
12..Finn Jensen (DEN)..3,3,3,3,1 = 13 - 1st
13..Kevin Jolly (GBR)..3,2,1,3,3 = 12 - 2nd
14..Nikolai Manev (BUL)..0,0,2,0,2 = 4
15..Steve Finch (GBR)..1,3,2,3,3 = 12
16..Neil Middleditch (GBR)..2,2,2,3,3 = 12 - 3rd
17..[R]..Ladislav Hradecky (CZR)..DNR
18..[R]..Danny Kennedy (AUS)..DNR
Ht 1..Karnas, Romaniak, Jankowski, Gigliali [F/Ex]
Ht 2..Nielsen, Gundersen, Juza, Birbini
Ht 3..Jensen, Kmieciak, Olszak, Johansson
Ht 4..Jolly, Middleditch, Finch, Manev [Ex]
Ht 5..Nielsen, Jolly, Kmieciak, Gigliali
Ht 6..Olszak, Gundersen, Romaniak, Manev
Ht 7..Finch, Johansson, Jankowski, Birbini
Ht 8..Jensen, Middleditch, Karnas, Juza
Ht 9..Gundersen, Middleditch, Johansson, Gigliali
Ht 10..Jensen, Finch, Romaniak, Nielsen [F/Ex]
Ht 11..Juza, Manev, Kmieciak, Jankowski
Ht 12..Karnas, Birbini, Jolly, Olszak
Ht 13..Jensen, Birbini, Gigliali, Manev
Ht 14..Jolly, Juza, Johansson, Romaniak
Ht 15..Middleditch, Olszak, Nielsen, Jankowski
Ht 16..Finch, Gundersen, Karnas, Kmieciak
Ht 17..Finch, Juza, Gigliali, Olszak
Ht 18..Middleditch, Romaniak, Birbini, Kmieciak
Ht 19..Jolly, Gundersen, Jensen, Jankowski
Ht 20..Nielsen, Manev, Johansson, Karnas
Ht 21..Jolly, Middleditch, Finch
Please feel free to correct me, but be aware that if I have to go through it all again I may cry.
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Thank you, andout, that looks much more like it. Given the SS's rider lineup I'm not convinced they were actually at the same meeting anyway! Quite worrying that out of all available sources not one has the meeting winner's score correct.
Thanks again. I don't suppose you have the 1979 final scores as well, do you (she asks cheekily but hopefully!) as there seem to be several discrepancies on that too? -
Thanks, but I know the author, and those results come from Wiki. What I'm really after is either someone who has a completed programme, or confirmation the 4th post in the thread is from the SS.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Individual_Speedway_Junior_European_Championship
But no saying this is the definitive answer.I know on speedway.org they have Nielsen on 10pts......
Wiki also has Hans finishing 5th on his profile
Yeah, but they seem to be using the article you quoted as their source for his position.
Speedway.org gives: HN 6, HO 6
The Bulgarian website agrees with 10 and 6, but looking at spelling comparisons it was probably taken from speedway.org
Speedweek.com agree with 10 and 6 also, and just to throw a wild card into the equation, Sportowefakty (Przemyslaw Jany) gives HN 11 and HO 6, which doesn't add up mathematically, so I think I can rule that one out.
I'm currently posting things all over the place for other results and not having much luck. As you say, it would be nice if there was an official site.
Edit: just looking at the 1979 results I can already see I'm going to have problems there too. That one seems to have even more inconsistencies than the others. So if anyone has an offer as to what the final scores were for the World U21 final in 1979 I'm putting in my plea now...
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I can do the final points tally's but not individual score charts. Is that any help or do you already have that much?
Bringing this back up to see if you still have this info please, Grachan? Several sources are saying Hans Nielsen finished on 11 and Henryk Olszak 5, but others are quoting 10, with Olszak ending on 6. This would make heat 15 the heat in question. I wondered if you (or anyone) can say definitively for my records?
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Many thanks for that. It's very much appreciated.I am having one hell of a day. Right, try again...
1984 BLRC - Star reports John Louis 1 from 3 starts (1, 0, NF, N, N). Coventry 1984 file reports same. Louis' point came in heat 2 after Knudsen fell while leading.
1985 BLRC - Rained off Saturday 6th October, restaged 20th.
1986 BLRC - https://app.box.com/s/wm7cfpcwle17ebtue3q3/1/505477329/4163566187/1
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Was intrigued by this one as I didn't recognise the name.
Alternative spelling 'Chaljavin'
Ah, now that's more like it. Thanks for clearing that one up!
1984 British Final - Speedway Star reports 4 (fx, 2, 0, 0, 2). I know you said 'no internet' but Stuart & co's 1984 Coventry file also says 4. Do you have a corresponding scoring error for another rider?
1985 was rained off on Sunday 9th June and restaged Wednesday 12th June. From 1985 yearbook.
1986 marked programme (not mine) here https://app.box.com/s/wm7cfpcwle17ebtue3q3/1/502516913/4134965833/1
Andy Smith replaced Alan Grahame at #11.
Those seem to be the British Final results and I was after the BLRC. But thank you for going to the trouble of looking it up.
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British League results for 1986:
http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/5878/british-league-1986
KO Cup results:
http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/3318/ko-cup-results-division-1
And riders (including guests - click on each one for their averages)
http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/4909/bradford-odsal
Edited to add: not sure if you're wanting individual meetings where a Bradford rider has appeared so I'll just leave you a link to our indexes:
http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/board/27/introduction-indexes
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I wonder if anyone can help me with any of the following, from either programmes or other first hand evidence (not the internet) please?
British League Riders Championships:
1984 - John Louis' final score
Date of 1985 meeting.
Riding order for 1989, where the riders were:
Shawn Moran
Hans Nielsen
Brian Karger
Martin Dugard
Ronnie Correy
Jimmy Nilsen
Kelvin Tatum
Alan Grahame
Simon Wigg
Rick Miller
Richard Knight
Lance King
Peter Ravn
Jeremy Doncaster
Paul Thorp
Mitch Shirra
Sweden:
1952 Swedish Final - Stig Pramberg and Einar Lindqvist's final scores.
1956 Swedish Final - Reserves Arne Carlsson and Olle Andersson (I) replaced who and in which heats (3 rides between them)
1959 Swedish Final - who did reserve Joel Jansson replace and in which heats (3 rides)?
1960 Swedish Final - who did reserve Leif Larsson replace and in which heat (1 ride)?
2003 Swedish Final riding order.
Riders:
Aleksandr Halyavin: The only information I can find on him is all from the same single source (Wiki's entry for the 1977 U21 European Championship Final) which leads me to believe there is possibly a typo in there somewhere?
Jonas Andersson : Where in Sweden was he born?
Bernie Aldridge: Date of death (2010)?
Peter Baldock: Date of birth and death?
Dates of birth for the following:
Neil Abrahams
Des Allen
Peter Bradshaw
Mick Beaton
John Bowerman
Mark Bullivant
Jonathan Blake
Keiron Boyle
Darrell Branford
Chris Blythe
Neal Barnsley
Greg Blair
Don Beecroft
Phil Baker
Wayne Baxter
Tracy Bray
Barry Bostock
Dates and places of birth for the following:
Ian Armstrong
John Alexander
Karl Armstrong
Bob Abell
Phil Ashcroft
Tony Abson
Pete Barnes
Peter Benjamin
Ray Boughtflower
Stephen Brown
Patrice Blondy
Tim Bungay
Steve Braidford
Keith Booth
Glyn Blackburn
Gary Brown
Dick Baxter
Clive Buckler
Adrian Baker
I have more, but figured it'd be easier to ask in batches.
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With all due respect, if existing fans don't know about it, can it be classed as a successful promotion? What you said is going on for your club all sounds very positive, and fair play to Newcastle, but the BSPA are the group responsible for the promotion of the sport overall. People living within a certain radius of the tracks will generally have heard there's a speedway stadium, but it's the wider audience that need to be reached, and that means branching out beyond local speedway areas.What I/WE do at Newcastle is nothing unusual, as most clubs do it when they can, but other fans don't know about it and criticise there promotions for not 'promoting' the sport. Of course they do, it's just not publicised.
The British GP advert is a prime example (I know this falls under a different jurisdiction, but the principle remains). It's great to see, but wouldn't it be better shown during another programme? Perhaps another motor sport, to attract fresh interest? After all, if you want new supporters it's not much use advertising to those who already go.
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This forum is around, what? 10 years old? Back then people were saying speedway will be dead in 10 years' time, the final nail in the coffin, etc, and they're saying it now...but it's still here, going on stronger than a lot of people believed.
I appreciate some things are frustrating, and not everyone is going to agree with some rules, decisions, team building, but I really don't see how saying RIP speedway is helpful. After all, those who ARE saying it are continuing to at least read the forums and take an interest, so it's clear they once thought fondly of speedway, and probably still do. All the time it has that support it will hopefully keep going. But the point of this thread is how to attract new supporters.
I've said it before and my thoughts haven't changed. I've lost count of the blank looks I get if I mention speedway - so many people have no idea it exists, let alone what it is or what it's about. I still think targeted adverts couldn't hurt. Flyers in the local papers...that sort of thing. Also I see lots of promotion in Denmark. Nicki and other riders visiting schools with their bikes, going to hospitals to talk to the kids... Not everyone is going to see speedway and say, "yeah I want to go and watch that" but if they don't even know it exists....?
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I did get them in the car and didn't say I was going to speedway.
A hostage situation? Could be the answer.
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They should have done rider gradings for the whole top five.
Denmark do rider grading. They're always worth a chuckle, if nothing else. Even the Danes think they're mad.
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Re previous discussions concerning the 1957 World Final on this website and the listing of Rolf Westerburg as non-riding reserve when most sources indicate the two non-riding reserves were Jack Biggs and Brian Crutcher. Some of the comments on the thread related to Brian not showing up at Wembley due to injury-hence the inclusion of Rolf Westerburg. I contacted my good friend Reg Fearman who in turn contacted Brian Crutcher- Brian's recollection is that he was not injured but thinks he said he was, simply because he was cheesed off at non-qualifying and didn't show up.
As a collecter of results I appreciate this input. So is the general conclusion that Biggs moved up and "rode" at 17 and Westerberg at 18, or did Westerberg simply replace Crutcher at 17? Would appreciate any answers you get.
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As a female supporter, the biggest turn off for me is delays.
Can't ever recall a time when speedway attracted a young crowd, it's always been a case of "my dad took me" whenever I've asked how anyone got into the sport. Clubs are keeping kids coming through the turnstiles with parents on free or cheap deals, so maybe it's the slightly older market they need to be targeting?
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Nicki's main sponsor says that they stopped sponsoring the GP-series due to the attacks on Nicki:
Should have gone the other way and pumped more in, for me. Monster clearly have too much of a monopoly on the series and seem to think this exonerates them and their riders from behaving in a proper manner. A bit of competition might just bring them down a peg or two.
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Given the lack of assistance for the position we're lucky to even have anyone willing to give up their time and effort to fill it.
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What's Swiderski's average currently?
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Just bringing this thread up again to highlight it. From what I've read today Vitaly is making small, but positive, progress. He has had some financial assistance from Russian fans but (and this really shocked me) not a single donation from Europe. Guessing this might be because his case hasn't been greatly publicised, so thought I'd post the information for anyone who might wish to help Vitaly in his rehab but didn't know how (also today happens to be his birthday.) Details are on this page. http://sportowefakty.wp.pl/zuzel/557096/witalij-bielousow-walczy-o-powrot-do-pelnej-sprawnosci-zaczalem-ruszac-palcami-p
I have no personal ties to Vitaly, aside from enjoying seeing him ride in the SWC, but this story resonated with me, as I'm sure it does with many other speedway fans.
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Rye House 2016
in SGB Championship League Speedway
Posted
Can anyone put me in touch with Rye's official photographer please? Either an email address, or by Twitter, or even on here if possible? Thanks in advance.