waiheke1

Lower Mid table side plays bottom of the table or chance to see a brit champion crowned, you're right it is a no brainer

He scored a flawless maximum in the 1980 world team cup final in wroclaw . I think that would have been recast major meeting he rode there

I agree PP would add little to the series, and would much rather have Janowski or Dudek. Any sort of statistical ranking system is always going to throw up the dd rider who performs well at League level, but never seems able to make the “step up” to SGP level. For that reason, I think any rankng system should only be a guide to what riders should get a GP spot, not an absolute, as it doesn’t take into account potential etc. Harris is 43rd on my list. The reason King is higher is that he was fortunate enough not to be picked for the SWC shambles,w hich brought down all the GB riders ratings. Jonsson is 3rd highest swede (33rd) on my rankings list, but in my view it has to be him or Lindgren for a sweish spot. I'd prefer Lindgren, but there's stuff all in it, and neither is likely (IMHO) to push for a rostrum spot next year, or likely any other. I was surprised too that Dudek ranked lower than Janowski and MJJ. To be clear, I didn’t take into account the U21 world champs, nor national championships, in my ratings – I’ll see if I can add the u21 champs to the model later today, but I imagine doing that would see Dudek leap frog them both. The reason Janowski ranked higher than Dudek as it stands was due solely to the SWC, here Janowski was one of the outstanding performers, whereas Dudeks performance, although solid, actually lowered his overall ranking. MJJ’s performance in SWC and SGP qualifiers are the reason he finished ahead of Dudek. Of course, as long as riders expect to be paid, then commercial considerations have to be a factor, and TV is obviously a major component. One place in a fifteen man field to be awarded on basis of nationality is not (IMHO) excessive, especially when such a rider is not markedly worse than top 15 riders, and when you compare to other sports (I’m thinking Olympic events, World Cup football etc. all having a significant number of places available to nations from weaker regions, and of course the old Speedway C used to have 5 places available to the weaker contintental qualifiers – to be genuine world events I think it is desirable to have a spread of nations, so long as this does not dilute the quality too much). I’d be disappointed though if Sweden do get two WC spots, when you have much more deserving candidates such as the LAgutas, MJJ and a raft of young Polish talent. Thanks TWK. One thing which I hoped would be shown was that the riders are not really being “gifted” places, but have generally earned them on merit. One could even argue it's a "fairer" approach, rewarding riders on performances over a whole seasons rather than a handful of qualifying meetings (I know you won't agree, but there is at least an argument). Must be something wrong with my calculations as THJ doesn't make the top 60...

no he's not. His loyalty to his existing commitments is admirable, but with the world championship so close it seems foolish to do anything to risk it, especially with his current injuries. even if he didn't have injuries you could have understood him being tempted to sit it out, espeically with the constant string of injuries that have hit almost all the top riders this season.

when they had this rule in 86, it had to be a "home grown junior", but if they rose to top 5 based on average they would move out of the reserve berth. However, I believe the Polish model of more recent years hass the rider staying at reserve for the duration. Short answer - i don't know, it could go either way, and the rule may be open to interpretation, or allowed to be ignored "in the interests of speedway", depedning on which team is riding anyway.

well, i had a bit of time on my hands today, so i thought i'd do a bit of ststistical analysis to see who had been the best riders in the world this season. I took into into account form in (in order of priority) GPs, leagues (Polish& Swedish top flight and Elite league only), SWC, Euro Champs and GP qualifiers, The results were pretty unsurprising - top 20 below. 1Tai Woffinden 2Jaroslaw Hampel 3Emil Sayfutdinov 4Niels K Iversen 5Darcy Ward 6Chris Holder 7Nicki Pedersen 8Greg Hancock 9Tomasz Gollob 10Matej Zagar 11Grigorij Laguta 12Kenneth Bjerre 13Piotr Protasiewicz 14Maciej Janowski 15Michael Jepsen Jepsen 16Martin Smolinski 17Patryk Dudek 18Troy Batchelor 19Adrian Miedzinski 20Krzysztof Kasprzak So, the vast majority of the world's top riders have already qualified for next season. If handed out on merit, the wildcards would go to: Holder, Gollob, G Laguta and Piotr Protasiewicz , the latter I guess being the only surprise (and not someone likely to bring too much to the series) If we assumed one spot needs to go to a Swede, then Freddie Lindgren (27th in my rankings) would take PP's spot. If however BSI decided against includion of either Laguta after the SWC withdrawal (as an aside, A Laguta is 21st in my rankings), and furthermore decided that no more than one wildcard should go to any given nation, then MJJ would be next in line. However, with three Danes already in the field, if they further decided that no nation should get a WC who already have three qualifiers, we'd be looking at Loktaev (30th on my list) as the next option. If a second swede was chosen, I make Peter Karlsson (28th) the next most worthy. Second best Brit behing Tai is Danny King (33rd). Not sure what the above shows, probably that the current system does very well in terms of ensuring the best riders in the world are in the field, although obviously there is a circularity to that argument (i.e. part of the reasons riders rank high is there performance in GPs - which count towards qualification - and GP qualifiers). I think it also shows that the riders likely to get picks for next season genuinely do merit them, unless a second Swede (or Brit) is selected.

really? u think swindon will only win on aggregate if they get more than 4 points via the tac sub?

Based on that then it would seem two Swedes, probably Johnson and lindgren?

Without a doubt onexwill be a swede . Would u really pick madsen over mjj? Janowski over dudek? Lebedevs /vaculik over the lagutas ? G lagutas has surely been the pick of the riders outside the series for the past two years. Id pick holder gollob lindgren g laguta. But my guess would be the last place to go to (in order of probability) Harris Jonnson or vaculik .

good effort by swindon, fingers crossed then can back it up with a solid away perfomance good job the new double point rule rather old tac sub rule is in effect, or poole would be much fewer than 10 points down...

Of course, ith the old rule, you could use the tac sub as 6 points down. So under the new rules, from being able to use the tac sub, you can go to 1 point up in two heats. Under the old rule, you could go two points up within two heats. In the above scenarios, under the new rule, without the tac sub you would have been two down (instead of a 5-1, 5-1 you got a 8-1,5-1,so the tac sub gives a three point wring). under the old rule, without tac subs you would potentially have still been six points down (as instead of a potential 1-5.5-1 a double tac sub could give you a 5-1,5-1, so an 8 point swing). look at the swindon-poole meeting today. Under the old rule, anyone think Poole woudl have finished 10 points down? As it was they got an extra 4 points, whcihc didn't impact at all on swindons total. under the old rules, ward, janowski and hancock would all have got an extra ride. even if those rides only added 4 points to pooles total, swindon would have got 4 less points, so would only hold a 6 point lead. ha dthose ridrs resulted in 6 extra points for poole (not unrealistic), swindon would hold only a two point lead. now don't get me wrong, as i have stated earlier, i'm not a fan of the new rule, and prefer the old one. but that's not because i think the new rule is "less fair" (it clearly isnt), a farce or a joke - its beacuse the old rule is the one i grew up with and am used to. I suspect that is the case with many on here, no matter how they try to justify it.

The main reason (IMHO) behing top riders not racing in Britain is the downfall of communism in Poland. They can now earn a lot more racing over there, wheras in the 70s/80s Briatin was where you woudl earn ecent money, topped up by lucrative bookings in Germany r elsewhere on the continent on a sunday. and of course, once most top riders started racing in poland, if you want to be a top rider then you need to race there too to stay at the top level. why have qualifying rounds - well, 11 of the 15 spots are "qualified" , so most spots are earned through qualification. the 8 spots from the gp series mean interest goes down to the wire,, a bit like relegation does in the premier league - even those with no chance of making the podium still have something to race for, which of course must reduces markedly the possibility of race fixing (i.e. riders letting their "mates" finish ahead of them). the three spots wwith knock out qualification gives all riders of a decent standard the opportunity of a "giant killing" qualification run. and the four remaining spots gives the possiblity of spots for top riders who have been injured, hot up and coming talent who have missed out, and also a spread of nationalities. i) see above ii) based on their performances in GPs, GP qualifiers, league racing. SWC etc. You'd also take into accoutn factors such as injury, potential etc. Somone could probably come up ith a mathematical formula which would measure the first part, not so much the second "soft" creiteria How's this for a giant killing act... a 200-1 rank outsider. Dislocates a collarbone, but rides through the pain barrier, to win a world titkle, which he dedicates to his father, also a speedway riderm, who passed aay to year's earler. .. Look at the injuries that have happenned this year. In an old style "knock out" world final, you could have ended up with a final missing Holder, Ward, Emil, Tai, Gollob, Jonsson as result of them missing a meeting due to injuty - hat a atered down final that ould have been. Looking back at the 70s/80s - ouldnt PC's triumph in 76 have been sweeter if he'd also defeated reogning champ Olsen, ditto Lee in 80 if Mauger had been there to defend his cron, wouldn't the 85 final have been richer for the presence of local boy and top English talent Kenny Carter, cubntless other examples. You'd look at performances across all competitions, and other factors such as number of spots already secured by thatnation for the folloign year, whethe rriders have had injuries, has the rider previoyusly been given a wildcard etc. In the first example, I'd say you'd give Lindgren a spot next year because there aren't any sweded in the series. If that hadn't been the case (i.e. poles/swedes ere eual), i'd give it to whoever finished higher in this years gp series. dudek vs MJJ - other things being equal, i'd give it to Dudek, who has finished much higher in domestic competitions, and shone in the World cup. Do you consider the Olympuics a sport? Because they don't really have quaalifiers (each nation can select who they want to go, as long as they have achievedd the requisite standard). what a joke! World cup football/rugby etc. all have quota systems which mean that you on't get all the wolrds top nations there, instead you'll ahve weaker nations who qualify based on their region. what about the old speeday world finals, where the final was of a weaker standard than the inter-continental final? Was the orld final a joke in the year's when riders got seeded to the final, or s=certain qualifying rounds? In 86 whern Knudsen was elininated in the Danish final, but then seeded through to the next round, were you equally vocal in yur condemnation. and of course there was the collusion/race fixing in qualifiers. Penhall in 82 and Wigg in 84 are the most famous examples, but there were many others, the danes in the 82 inter-continental final, Ermolenko letting Hancock by in the 92 overseas final, collins brothers team riding in the 82 overseas final run off and colluding in the 82 final, Ross (already safely qualified) traling home last in the 81 overseas final, allowing Mauger to pick up the two points he needed to qualify , John Berry mentions Sanders having a "mysteious last lap engine failute" in a 70s qualifying meeting hich ensured a "big name" made the final, i'm sure there were many other cases, those are the ones which spring to mind In fact, Berry argued in his book that Olsen's main reason for initiaing the GP series was that he was sick of the horse trading and colusion which went on in world final qualifiers/finals (ket and pottle black spring to mind after oldens actions in the 82 inter-continental final, and i'd suggest money/power were high on olsens list as well).

Not worse per se - just gave a greater advantage (in most situations) to the losing team. Sid - surely you don't need the 3 point swing vs 8 point swing explaining again?

those who were lucky enough to see him ride round Hyde Rd - which of the PCs ould you rate the better rider?

in that case, for all 4 legs please if anyone has it

no real surprises here, the countries with the cheapest cost of living have the cheapest tickets, the most expensive cities/countries have the most expensive tickets. if you indexed against income of local population, i'd be surprised if cardiff wasn't the cheapest GP (for the entry level tickets)

woffinden 50 more pedersen 50 more hampel 50 more lindback 50 less hancock 50 less

Tai 6.5m Pedersen 6.5m nki 6.5m zagar 731k

If any rider was deserving of the tag"smooth and stylish" surely it's shaun Moran - by far the most stylish rider in my time watching speedway.

i think the only person who has claimed that is TWK, and to be fair he has been totally consistent in maintaining his position that no places in the gps should be "selected". possibly parsloes may have expressed that view also, but he doesn't seem to grace the gps threads these days.

Pedersen woffinden iversen gollob Sweden

the issue with that is that there are no British riders of a reasonable standard not riding in the el. so if darcy ward got injured you'd be replacing him with a rider who might get at best a couple of points .

so the GPs started just before he turned twenty five. In his twenties he was world champ, finished on the podium in another season, won four world team/pair titles, and three individual GPs. not really doing it? In his 30s he didn't win a world title, finished top three twice, and won seven gps over 10 years. in his 40s, he's been world champ, finished third, and won 4 gps. to be honest, i think his 30s was actually his worst decade !?!

Tickets for nz gps on sale tomorrow. Same prices as last year. looks like a 6pm start time which is good news fir those who prefer speedway under lights and for those viewing from the UK. Just hoping it is not the last one.

have a look here. i think you ill find the number of fatalities has dramatically decreased since the introudction of air fences (note: this does include car speedway, ice speedway and grass track - so you'd need to manually sort the list your self). http://speedwayinmemoriam.yolasite.com/ but thinking back to the 80s , you had pyeatt, alderton and Kudrna involved in fatal crashes in 1982 alone. Joe Owen and Per Jonsson were both paralysed after crashing (i'm prety sure) into old style safety fences - could be wrong, but cant think of anyone ho has sustained the same from an airfence. on a side note, can anyone confirm if any research has been done into the benefits of air fences vs concrete stair wells?