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waiheke1

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Posts posted by waiheke1

  3. Posted

    7 hours ago, Technik said:

    We don't know the full extent of the incident. If Freddie was KO'd or declared himself unfit or the Doctor says he is unfit to ride then there would be little point in a re-run

    I assume that was the reason, and means Freddie gets a third rather than a dnf.  Surely could not be fit to race in a rerun.

  5. Posted

    8 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

    I enjoyed the two day World Final in Amsterdam.

    But it was hardly considered a success, and the following year it reverted to a one-off.  The racing was pretty mediocre, but I'm sure for a speedway fan it was an enjoyable couple of days, and I bet Amsterdam made for a good night after the first meeting. 

  6. Posted

    6 hours ago, redlead said:

    In the 70's the top 20 riders averaged 9 or over. Today there are one or two riders who average over 9. With only about 3 riders riding Prem League exclusively, the general standard of both leagues is poor by past standards. In the 70's a heat leader in the 2nd division would be a reserve in the 1st div, today there is very little or no difference between the 2 leagues. So I think the standard in the 2nd tier, is poor by past standards.  However just because the standard is lower, it doesn't mean the racing is poorer. At Redcar we see great racing every meeting.

    PLEASE don't use averages that way to indicate the strength or weakness of the league. What the top riders in a league average is irrelevant to the strength of a league - though if anything high averages of the top riders may equate to lower strenghth in depth, though as the post above points out, race format and other factors need to be tsken into account.

    Doubling up also tells us nothing about the standard, other than that the gap betwewn the two leagues  has reduced.

    Relative to world standards I'd agree the quality of both leagues has dropped, and also agree with your assertion that the racing quality can be just as good. 

     

    • Like 1

  7. Posted

    3 hours ago, Pinny said:

    There was a stage when even Rickardssons bikes looked massively faster than anothers bikes in the GPs. 

    Egon Mueller in 83 was MASSIVELY quicker than anyone else. Gundersen and Nielsen always appeared to have the quickest bikes in their era of dominance.

    Was there ever a year in which the world champion didn't have bikes as quick, or quicker, than anyone else?

  8. Posted · Edited by waiheke1

    29 minutes ago, Triple.H. said:

    IMO his big problem is when he was a gap chasing fence scraper, he followed his managers advice and opted out/placed less emphasis of/on the GPs. 

    Now he's a bit older and the gaps are smaller and the fences harder, he's realised all the natural ability in the World won't keep him up with the young flyweights on rockets.

    Yep. He missed 3 (?)years when he should have been at his peak. Typically racers, as opposed to gaters, have struggled to be as successful later in their career. (Gollob is an exception).  

    • Like 2

  9. Posted

    Set-ups and good bikes have always, and will always, be important. Mauger, Olsen, Penhall,Lee, Gundersen, Nielsen etc always had equipment as good or better than any of their rivals. 

    Woffy is a clear example- when he won his first couple of world titles, he looked a speed above everyone else. This year he sometimes looks like he is riding a lawnmower.

    Similarly, I recall Emil having bikes that were sensationally quick a few years back- that's not the case the last couple.

    Zmarzlik in the last 2-3 years, consistently looks like he is quicker than anyone- he must also be the lightest of the GP riders, which i assume makes a difference. 

    Honestly, this felt a little like sour grapes from Emil, and frustration that his team are not getting his bikes right. 

    • Like 2

  10. Posted

    1 hour ago, chunky said:

    Remember, I was a big Larry Ross fan too! While he was with us, he was always known as a Hyde Rd specialist, but when he finally got the move up there, he just never really blossomed as he SHOULD have done.

    He should have qualified for the '79 World Final...

    79 was his best year, i would agree, arguably in the world's top ten riders thst season. So on that basis, can understand you saying he never kicked on. Arguably he didnt invest enough in top bikes (the 81 final he blew his best motor the night before), certainly in the latter years of his British career. 

  11. Posted · Edited by waiheke1

    3 hours ago, chunky said:

    Well, JD was pushing a 10 point average at the time, whereas Sigalos had slipped a bit after moving to Ipswich. Crumpy SHOULD have been a much better rider in World Finals, but usually struggled on the night, and I think Larry's best years were at Plough Lane; he never developed after leaving us. I do see Crump as a better option, though. Davis is a weird one though - like Eric Boocock; superb in domestic action, but never really comfortable at the top level.

    It's funny you say about the best action in '76 coming from the "deserving champion" - you could say exactly the same about 1981! And a lot of the GP seasons... :t:

    I did stats analyis of each season in the 80s, and while you could argue the weightings used, Davis ranked 24th - behind other brits such as Kennett, Bastable and Alan Grahame. As a reference, Crump was ranked 8th, thr only top ten rider not in the field

    Agree Davis never performed at the very highest level, with the exception of 1980. After a dip in form mid-80s i recall him having a superb 1985. 

    I don't think you'll find a bigger Larry Ross fan than me, I'd say his peak ran 79-82 - his only world final appearance was after moving to Aces, and he was cornerstone of their 82BL title win, topping their away averages. 

  12. Posted

    1 hour ago, chunky said:

    Again, a lot of what you said comes down to the "occasion", rather than the actual meeting. I hadn't really though about it, but John Davis was probably the biggest name missing. Not that I ever considered him a true title contender, but he never even made it past Coventry.

    Again, from what I've seen, 1976 was one of the best with regard to the actual racing.

    Agree re "occasion." 81 was the complete package, it wasn't great just because of the racing.

    Would disagree re Davis. The best rider missing on form was Phil Crump (Crump for Ross was about the only change you could make to strengthen the lineup). The likes of Mauger, the Morans, Sigalos, Les and Peter Collins would all have been bigger threats on the night than Davis .

    Agree, from what i have seen the 76 final was arguably the best for racing - maybe biased because a lot of that came from the deserving world champion.

  13. Posted

    1 hour ago, chunky said:

    Yet people still won't have that. Like I said, the "greatest" world final of all time - is remembered for TWO races... 

    Tbh, it isn't remembered as arguably the last truly great world final just for the racing, but because it had "the whole package"

    1. A truly world class lineup, with no genuine title contenders missing

    2. A world class stadium, in a great city, with a huge crowd

    3. Two superb races, that decided the destiny of the world title

    4  A popular and deserved world champion,  who was clearly the best rider in the world that season. 

    The racing at Odsal in 90 was better, BUT that ticked only the "racing" box...stadium, crowd, line-up were not comparable, nor, with all due respect, was the 1990 Per Jonsson in the same league as 1981 Penhall, as a rider or in terms of popularity  

  14. Posted

    21 hours ago, falcace said:

    I agree with some of this. But I think it's telling to look at where the BLRC (or today's incarnation) is. It's a perfect example of what happens when a sport doesn't evolve and move forward. Today's Riders Championship is light years behind the occasion the BLRC was. The World Final was heading the same way at Norden, Vojens, Pocking and so forth. Without the evolution of the GPs, there is no doubt the World Championship would have been a pretty tepid occasion, untelevised in some British, Swedish or Polish backwater. Anyone who thinks the continuation of  World Finals would have meant massive Wembley occasions is kidding themselves. I got to a few World Finals....Norden, Bradford, Amsterdam, Bradford and Wroclaw...I can honestly say that all of them have been bettered by GP occasions I have attended in Cardiff, Torun, Bydgoszcz.

    Agree. Some of the modern day racing in the GPs is staggering. You could spend hours scouring footage from the 70s, 80s on YouTube and you wouldn't find anything to beat some from the stuff served up by Zmarzlik, Woffinden, Janowski, Laguta, Sayfutdinov, Doyle and Lindgren. I admit to not be as invested in today's racing as I was in the 80s/90s...perhaps that's more to do with my age and other life commitments taking precedent? But I couldn't squarely look a modern day fan in the eye and tell them all the racing was better in the 80s/90s, it simply wasn't. 

    This 100%. 

    My favourite era in speedway is the 1980s. I was absolutely crazy about speedway. I still think it's great, but I don't have time to watch as much as i would like, and not living in europe - hence no access to live speedway - i no longer have that enotional connection to the sport that comes with watching your team race live on a weekly basis. 

    like you i did most of my viewing at hyde rd, and agree the standard of racing today - at least at the top level - is generally better than that of the 80s. Certainly the quality of racing in gps is massively better than the 80s world finals. 

  16. Posted

    23 hours ago, chunky said:

    That is a point I have repeatedly made on here. I think in some of the following years, there were several finals that were equally weak.

    Let's face it, in the 80s of the five continental qualifiers, only Muller was close to world class.  So you were guaranteed at least quarter of the field would not be competitive.

    Additionally, every workd final of that era - except 81- was arguably missing at least one genuine title contender due to injury, one poor meeting etc 

    And of course by mid-late 80s the sport had prematurely lost a number of riders who should have been at their peak- penhall, sigalos, sanders, carter, lee etc.

    What a line up you could have had, without those losses and with a fairer system; Lee, Carter, Wigg, Tatum, Nielsen  Gundersen, Knudsen, Pedersen, Sigalos, Penhall, Ermolenko, Moran, Moran, Jonsson, Muller, Sanders  as an example.

    Have to add, this is a superb thread; rational discussion and great memories.

    • Like 5

  17. Posted

    5 minutes ago, tocha said:

    This doesn't explain why Madsen finished ahead of Woffinden. Points awarded for 3rd and 4th in the semis are based upon those scored in the qualifying heats. Both finished last in their respective semi but Woffinden scored 13 and so should have been awarded 10  but Madsen, scoring 10 in the qualifiers, 9.

    https://www.speedwaygp.com/news/article/7919/sgp-scoring-and-qualification-changes

    Woffy didn't finish in his semi though, so i believe Madsen's last beats his DNF

    • Like 1

  19. Posted

    On 8/22/2021 at 7:49 AM, Col said:

    Lambert is 3 years younger than Zmarzlik. Zmarzlik was blessed with Ekstraliga experience from 16. Lambert is as good as anyone his age now with Drabik disappearing & Smektala standing still. Kubera & Chugunov average less in Ekstraliga.

    He's a little behind Fricke, who is a few years older but still improving. Unless Zmarzlik has an injury or downward spike I doubt any of those mentioned will reach his level.

    Still hope.

    Zmarzlik will likely end his career  regarded as one of the top ten post-war speedway riders. If Fricke and Lambert fail to reach his level - and i would be very surprised if either do reach it- they could still be good enough to challenge for - or even win- a world title.

  25. Posted

    2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

    I am ok with 2 gp’s in a weekend, but I could easily change my view if a rider couldn’t compete the 2nd night due to injury. That could have happened at Wroclaw with Emils second accident. He must be badly bruised but it could have been much worse.               
    Points system, still wavering between the two systems. Current system gives a chance to someone who suffered an engine failure a chance to do really well - I like that.

    Under the old system you could have five wins and an engine failure in the semi and end with 15 points 

    In this system you could have five wins and an engine failure and end with nine points.

    This system is far more likely to punish you for one bad ride 

    • Like 2
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