Grand Central

I'd love to see what would happen when one of those numpties wants to 'miss the traffic' by 'nipping off before the last race'. Utterly stupid. But they'll be paid a fortune to come up with this sort of guff.

Completely true. In most of the cases mentioned the hosts were or would have been in a serious chance of winning the damn thing. So the crowd would be enticed along to watch their nation challenge for a world title, The strange thing in 2013 is that BSI must have expected a whole load of masochistic Czechs to turn up for some form of national public humiliation. Just a bit strange.

No problem at all. My view is just about the same as your own. The only point on the joker or tac sub issue is that up until the BSI incarnation of the World Cup there had never been any sort of tactical arrangements in a World Championship event (except the use of reserves). Their usage in league and club competitions had been well established for decades but I cannot remember anyone ever suggesting it for the international stage. That is different. It just feels wrong. And yes, SCB, I have always looked in disbelief at the naming. Nothing shows it up for what it is more than the word Joker. And no one in the right places can see that. Downright weird.

Pretty much just the same as at KL for a mid week meeting, as that looks to have been a similar crowd for the last few years despite any wider decline. And a few more if held at a weekend, especially somewhere a bit more accessible like Peterborogh or Coventry. I can't imagine it ever being more than 10,000. No matter who is in the final. PS... Phil. It was you who asked how many were at Peterborough in the past. So a little strange of you to say 'it is not about the past'.

I don't think anyone was suspecting there was. It's just that with either of your two hats on. We would have thought you better placed to have accurate figures from the past. And even a better idea of future expectations. But clearly we were wrong.

Quite amazing. You admonish everyone else for discussing the points of criticism. And then go through each one. And pretty much agree with every bit of that criticism. You admonish everyone for airing grievances at the expense of looking at the positives. And (excepting MJJ getting second place in the last heat decider) do not highlight any real positives. What do you perceive as being really any different in your contribution. .

The speedway track did not 'surround' the football pitch at Wembley. Only the bends were visible when the the full sized pitch was put down over the rest of the track on the straights.

Two of the best Speedway Stadiums in the world at Torun And Gorzow. And undoubtedly the best racing track in the world at Bydgoszcz. Lets give up on one. And have one of Ole's special temporary tracks instead. We know we can always rely on them.

Not me. Just the fervent hope that he is YESterday's man. Even I groaned after writing such tosh. But you get the point.

Let us all hope you are right ... 'Neil, will you go to Rugby to get your licence?' NO 'Neil, you must realise that Kennet is the wrong choice. Will you change your mind'? NO 'Neil, Surely King is a better choice than Barker?' NO 'Neil, you must leave Harris in this race he has just scored 5 points' NO 'Neil, do you want another year as Team GB coach?' NO NO NO NO NO We can but hope.

That's fine. We must be alone though in being a sport which actually uses the term 'Joker'. It sounds like something our worst detractors would use to describe it. For reasons of denigration. Not a term that the series organiser would promote and even create graphics about. There must be some funny chaps in the TV world. Or at least in our little corner of it.

I just detest the rule and it did spoil my enjoyment a fair bit. As it does every year. If it had been a deal breaker for the TV companies then I may have had to accept it as a necessary evil. Better to have the meeting on TV with Jokers. Than not at all. But if, as you say, it was not a deal breaker. The meeting would still have been on Eurosport on Saturday. Even without them. And that is a fact. It is not something we NEED to satisfy the moguls. So now we are just stroking egos in TV land? And Sod the others? Nice to know The FACTS. .

I didn't say it was difficult to understand. The similarity to a penalty shoot out is a rather strange comparison. That is used to decide when a match is tied at the end of a game in a knockout competition. It is not used as an exciting 'Joker' for a side going a few goals down during the match. (That may be something to write to Sepp Blatter with). A Penalty shoot is Football's Run-off. Not their tacsub or Joker

I accept you are the man with facts. So, would we not have had our World Cup Final on Eurosport on Saturday night without the Joker Rule?

No not 'extra' points. If that is what particularly hits at 'credibility', for you. Then fair enough. But you did ask for an explanation of the the eight point swing that had been mentioned. There is only a seven point swing available with a double point ride.

Do you honestly think that any TV executive has ever had the intricacies of Speedway explained to him sufficiently to understand the difference between the World Cup final with, or without Jokers. And then the same guy from Sky, Eurosport or Canal+ has said YOU MUST have them, and if you don't have them I'll pull the plug. The existance of the whole Joker issue is one that came from within Speedway (and presumably BSI) and it stays because of voices within. Not because of influence from outside.

In the old tac sub rule you could replace both poor performing riders a a race with a double tac sub. Thereby changing an almost certain 1-5 into a 5-1. That is an eight point swing. Sorry for jumping the gun on adding the answer.

The rule makers are the ones that have put us in this place. To argue against the joker is now seen as arguing against Poland's win. A real shame. But the annual week-long festival is over for another year, or more. Every year we go over and over the Joker issue ... And no one listens. Every year we go over and over the Middleditch issue .... And no one listens. It's now back to he leagues and all those contentious issues Where no one listens. In between we watch a bit of speedway.

If Ole wants it. It will be at Vojens. I would imagine.

I can't work out what was naive. Sarcasm. World-weary cynicism. Even contempt. perhaps. And when you ask about the pairs. One thing is for certain it won't be for teams of TWO. That would be a plain stupid idea.

A fascinating and yet wholly incomprehensible comparison. I just wonder how many Pimms and Strawberrys were sold at the WWE. Edit for accuracy; The indoor crowd in Michigan for the wrestling was 93,000 and that record was broken in 2010 by a basketball game where there were 108,000. But I still make that one or two more than were in the Marketa last night. If that has any relevance.

I can see BSI using that as a tag line in their advertising. . Are you sure? Czestochowa ... made money? Prague on Thursday ... made money? Any rider who was in a team that didn't get to the final ... made money? I doubt it .

I happen to agree with you completely on the ridiculous use of a Joker in the World Cup Final. However, as a Hackney fan of real vintage you must remember that August night at The Shay in 1980. When the Hawks were fifteen points down after eight heats but with the use of FOUR tac subs they managed to pull off a 1 point away win after heat thirteen. Anything to keep the atrociously performing Barry Thomas, Sean Wilmott and Keith White off the track. Did the 'better' team win that night? For us Dukes fans; it felt like we'd been mugged. .

What a move that would have been

I challenge you to find one single post of mine on BSF in which I have offered one word of critcism of Poole or Matt Ford. You are well wide of that particular mark. Philip Rising is doing very well at keeping us informed of Kelvin's knowledge and studentship of all aspects of the sport; which I could not possibly add to. But surely Gary Havelock - great rider though he was - cannot accurately be described as similarly 'knowledgeable', can he?