Bleeds Pirate Blue

Awful decision to not sign Chris Holder, in my opinion. Noddy is worth all 2.5 points more per meeting than Hans is*. MADNESS I tells ya! *I'm assuming Hans will be our No.1.

@Gater1 You say that teams can't (shouldn't) use 11+ points on a rider, but the team points limit is 50, which is an unsustainable figure for basically every team bar the eventual league champs (a successful team), so most teams in the league will see averages fall in the first Premiership season... With that being the case, why not invest in a standout No.1 who will make mincemeat of this weakened league? His average will likely drop (certainly will for Holder, Doyle etc), but you'll have one of the league's best riders! Following on from that, the riders most likely to improve (conceptionally) would be those with the lowest averages - i.e. the ones you'd have to use if you include top-end riders Everyone is so focused on rider averages based on the x1.4 multiplication, but, at the end of the day the league will be won by a team with riders capable or improving or overachieving. Adam Ellis, is a rider I'd expect to continue to make strides next season, so on the basis he earned his current average, and he is a progressive rider, he is worth including in your team. @Gavan Cheers!

Very disappointing re: Ellis, and Noddy if that also turns out to be true... What is really galling about Adam's situation is that, like others have suggested, he earned his 7.8whatever average on the track and deserved it. Compared to the likes of the Worrall twins, Jason Garrity I'd be happy to choose Adam on a comparable GSA. I'd also add - how can Poole fans who actually attended meetings in the second half of last season advocate signing Hansii on a 10+ average?? And as for those listing Davey Watt as a potential signing as well... seriously?? Hans was visibly slow and struggling badly in crucial matches as the season drew to a close, and now he's going to be our no.1??? Madness! I'd take Adam on a 7.8 all day versus Hans on a 10+!! Davey was fired twice in quick succession for being terrible, yet he's now a bargain?? I'm going to support the team we put together regardless, but give me Holder + Ellis and whatever else we can fit over Hansii & Watt + the rest ANYDAY!

It's the same limit for every team in the Premiership, and all teams will have to work with the average a rider has been given in this new league... Calm yourselves!! With the revamp of the league structure now in place the goal appears to be to lessen the quality gap between the leagues, which looks likely. People can moan about the lack of GP riders, but as a fan of speedway the most important factor to me is the quality/competitiveness of the racing. The best races I've seen in recent seasons have come from duels between the likes of Charlie Wright, Kyle Newman, Stevie Worrall, so this revamp will hopefully give us fans more of that.

Erm, how do you think the sport got into this mess in the country!?

Great interview with Craig Cook. That's passion for your team.

Fricke -1 vs Thorssell looks a great bet to me on Bet365 tonight. Just wanted to get it in before its after timing

@SteveO - Fair enough. Appreciate your reply.

@KirkyLane - I don't disagree that the current system needs replacing. In fact it is exactly what I called for in other posts on other threads. Scrap the heat format and concept of protected heats. Switch to rider grading for a season as the 2016 EL averages are worthless. Back to averages season after....

Fair enough dude. Having seen you spent the last week or so writing CHEATING SCUMBAGS for most your posts connected to Poole, it's pretty clear what you think about us. I still don't get how being a reserve, which is set by your average, shows a lack of ambition. Bearing in mind that there are plenty of rumours that riders at other clubs don't get paid regularly, you'd suggest Kyle rejects a place in the most successful team of the last decade and move to a club that has smaller crowds, poorer sponsors, with the potential of not getting paid, to highlight how much 'he wants it'? I'm not calling you ignorant for having a different opinion for what its worth. You're just coming across to me as antagonistic. If you'd care to explain how if Kyle signs for Poole, and Matt Ford signs at least five riders on a higher average than him, it shows a lack of ambition, I'd appreciate it. Whether I agree or not is another matter, but I haven't seen a sensible argument made yet...

Speedway is a team sport currently based around rider averages. If the BSPA keep the EDR system, and allow Newman and Ellis to ride in the Elite League on converted Premier League averages (the current system), then it is likely they would be reserves. Are you being deliberately ignorant, or trolling me here? Newman and/or Ellis would be fine at second string, I agree, but if Poole can use them at reserve, why wouldn't they? It bears zero reflection on their ambition as riders, it's purely a mechanic of the team building process.

Well, if the BSPA are setting the league's rules with the main purpose being to prevent Poole having Newman and Ellis at reserve is, to my mind, an incredibly short-sighted strategy. Newman and Ellis have been two of the better success stories of the EDL system (and their success has not been dramatic!), so your suggestion is more about being anti-Poole than pro-British Speedway. Currently Elite League speedway has numerous critical issues - the race format being the primary one, which has in turn created the issue with riders on false averages. I'd suggest the best way to remedy this situation is to find a race format that doesn't create such a gulf between the reserves and rest of the team with protected heats, and switch to a rider grading system for a season so everyone can achieve more representative averages.

You have to be joking re: Batchelor!! Can't see Poole chasing Harris either, despite an attractive average. I'd have thought that Ford/Middlo will be looking for younger riders for the team.

I don't think it's a decision that Kyle gets to make? Surely if Poole build a team, and the EDL system continues, which means Newman gets a 3.16 average, he'd likely be a reserve. That's not due to any lack of ambition of Kyle's.... As for the rest of the Pirates next season, I'd want to see KK at Poole, Kurtz should be back, and Jack Holder will likely be given a spot too. Ellis and Newman both deserve to be back, but it will all depend on the rules and averages they are given. Plenty of rumours that Milik will be returning. I'd have no problems with Chris Holder being back as well, so that makes: Chris Holder KK Milik Kurtz Jack Holder Newman Ellis

Congrats to Kyle for his excellent performances in both legs of the semi-final. He's had a tough year and he was superb in the two biggest matches of the season for us. Great to see a local lad getting it done on track for the Pirates. Not sure if he'll be back next year unless we do get to use his PL average. I'm tempted to say he deserves a place in the starting lineup regardless based on his commitment on track last night. And finally, it was great to see him produce those performances when several forum trolls were knocking him and suggesting Poole should replace him, or fiddle an injury to get him out the side.

Poor decision from the ref excluding Ellis. He laid it down!!

Exactly. The rule is worded in a way that allows loopholes, or manipulation. It's a way for any promotor to fiddle things in their favour if and when the time comes because of poorly defined criteria in the rule book.

FWIW, I heard a rumour that Wolves had their hand forced into signing Woffy, as Belle Vue were sniffing around him... Woffy then told the Wolves promotion that he was going to go to BV, so they had to react and sign him themselves...

@BurntFaceMan While I agree with the points you have been trying to make, your application of statistics in this argument is misguided at best... "This means that if you were to bring a GP rider into the league, they'd need to achieve an average of approximately 8.4pts to be worth bringing into the league. Currently, only 37.5% of GP riders in the league are actually achieving this average. That means that any promoter who wants to bring a GP rider into the league, on an assessed 8pt average, has a 62.5% chance that their rider will fail to deliver the goods required to warrant that average." You keep saying that unless an 8.00 rider (aka a GP rider) can achieve a 8.40+ average he is essentially a poor selection for a team, and then added that 62.5% of GP riders haven't succeeded in that regard. Firstly I want to address this figure of 62.5%. Your sample size to attain this figure is whole inadequate - one season. Anyone with any sort of background in statistical analysis would know this, and wouldn't keep running it into the ground. Why haven't you included similar analysis of rider averages since the GPs started? Or perhaps for the last five seasons? Your use of this one, flawed statistic, then shapes statements like: "If you were a promoter, would you risk bringing one of the top 15 riders in the world into our league, when there is a 62.5% chance that they will not score enough to warrant their average?" So for team building purposes for next season promotors will be thinking about the 2016 season in isolation? Then there is your whole argument about needing 46pts (13 wins) and approx 46 points to win a meeting, hence the 0.40 increase in all riders averages.... This assumes all riders are equally responsible for a team's improvement, which isn't something any sane promotor would be looking to achieve. If a side signs GP Rider A, one of the top 15 in the world, on say a 9.50 GSA and he only MAINTAINS it, because he's already at his peak, while at reserve that allows you to sign a young, up and coming rider on a low average who improves who adds 1.00+ to his GSA, then between them they have been a success. In your back and white analysis, GP Rider A has been a poor signing. He could have topped the league averages without improving and still been a bad signing... We also cannot assume that the riders in the Grand Prix Series are the sport's very best riders because of a variety of issues, such as injuries, form and machinery, not to mention including the fact the event organisers award permanent wildcards based on their financial pull for the series (i.e. a Swedish rider if none qualify as there are two GPs in Sweden each season etc...) Anyway, sorry to attack your though-out and lengthy analysis, but as someone who quite likes a bit of data analysis, your interpretation of some flawed data was particularly irksome.

@grachan It's just hiding behind the rules like Poole/Matt Ford get criticized for every year to say that. The very best rider in the world shouldn't be allowed to compete on a 7.03 average in a weakened Elite League. As long as the sport's governing body allows stuff like this to happen, the most ambitious promoters will continue to take advantage... If you want to stop Poole doing it every year, you have to stop everyone doing it.

@BWitcher I feel we have a difference of opinion due to inherent bias of clubs supported (especially me). I understand your point of view but don't whole-heartedly agree with it. I'd like common-sense to prevail and for British speedway to be run by people who don't allow such flagrant rule-bending and abuse year-in and year-out, which includes re-assessing Woffinden to a more representative average after his absence. Feel free to reply, but I feel we're just going to go round-and-round-and-round here...

Haha, well that's my choice of words, perhaps not his? He might prefer wind-up merchant or something similar

Gavan can be reasonable, but his war with Starman is one of the most annoying things on this forum. Both parties need to ignore each other, permanently. I'd also add that the clearly antagonistic language from a Gavan post is only rivalled by the level of righteousness they often display! It's a shame because I've seen him have some quality debates at times. As for Shovvy, well, he's the forum's troll in Poole colours, and as others have pointed out, it's usually screamingly obvious in the way his posts are written as to what the intended effect is.... I also sit with him on a regular basis at Wimborne Rd and think he's a pretty sound bloke, and you'd know that too if you came and said hello!

Any time Poole have signed a rider on a false average we get murdered for it - "he wasn't trying for half a season" and "deliberate average manipulation by XXX". As per speedway-stats.co.uk Tai's UK averages have been as follows: 2011 Tai Woffinden - 8.38 2012 Tai Woffinden - 8.76 2013 Tai Woffinden - 9.25 2014 Tai Woffiden - 7.06 2016 Tai Woffinden - 8.50 (five matches only) Spot the odd one out!?? Regardless of being legal, it stinks. Use common-sense and re-assess. Okay - I get where you are coming from - the use of assessment. We shall have to agree to disagree on this point. Yes it can be abused, but there are cases when common sense needs to prevail.

@BWitcher So you think allowing the world's best speedway rider into a weakened league on a ludicrously low average, which he is blowing out of the water, is fine? I am not saying it is outside of the rules, I'm just calling it BS. Simply re-assess Woffy to a more realistic 8.50 (I could just about live with an 8.00). I wouldn't be against seeing Lindback get assessed as an 8.00 either.