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Fortythirtyeight

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Posts posted by Fortythirtyeight

  1. Posted

    1 hour ago, Ghosty said:

    I personally think rider control did work 95% of the time!

    The current biggest problem in the U.K. is lack of riders per team places available. Maybe it's time to bring back second-half's & introduce 4 to 6 new riders per club to the sport with regular second-half rides. By next season you could have 30 riders in the U.K. ready for team spots. 

    Also a couple of years of second-half's would "mix" things up a bit. 

    What ? Where do you watch the sport ? All northern tracks run second halfs and have done for many years , not just the NJL matches either .

    • Like 1

  2. Posted

    12 minutes ago, The Dog said:

    One of the major issues is investment in the sport at 'lower than grand prix' level. Instead of paying riders daft money, clubs should be buying one or two smaller bikes and give the kids a taster an hour before the meeting starts. Parents aren't willing to spend on all the gear for the kid to hate it after one lap,unless they already have a speedway background. 

    Advertise it as a free trial for kids and the parents get in free just the once. Even if they don't want to be a rider they may just become a supporter. Needs to be a huge carrot to get people through the gates, this might not be it but it's a different idea.. 

    Apologies for hijacking the Brum thread. 

    Not feasible for many reasons including insurance, safety clothing, track time , costs etc , never mind the length of time it takes to kit / dress one kid out for a go on a bike without brakes.

    • Like 2

  3. Posted

    1 hour ago, mikebv said:

    Circa 0.03% of the populace attend Speedway..

    Maybe double that figure (max), follow it "closely"...

    So "winning" will never make much difference to too many and make it worth more than ensuring all survive and grow...

    Tracks are closing annually meaning huge conurbations have no tracks nearby or within them...

    And the sport doesnt seem to take stock of this and review why? 

    18 tracks having sustainable business models (and as equal a chance to compete as possible will help a sustainable model) "may" help stop the rot and restart some growth in attendances..

    The odd track growing its fanbase in isolation by 200 or so (a potential massive % uplift given the tiny low base to start from) because they are doing "well", will make not one jot of difference to the sport overall if you have a net loss by tracks closing down..

    And using averages, as everyone knows, doesnt ever deliver equality simply due to the myriad of variances and subjectivity that make these numbers up...

    A max number of riders per team over a defined figure would spread around the heat leaders though and that is pretty much the key to most teams, especially in Div 2 where the top riders (Div 1 heat leaders) are miles in front of the reserves' standard....

    A max two rider over "x" points would spread those heat leaders around. Currently some teams have a minimum 14 of the 30 rides per meeting covered by "good riders" whilst others have a lot less heat rides covered by that standard of rider..

    There isnt much point in racing to the bottom, as even if you "win" by being the last there, you still have lost...

    To reduce your reply to one sentence , you want to bring back rider control ?

    Which didn’t work the last time it was tried.

    • Like 1

  4. Posted

    2 hours ago, mikebv said:

    In a sport where "winning" brings you so little reward, and is pretty much down to it's most die hard followers, and no more, everywhere...

    I would think having EVERY track competitive is far, far more important to any possible future growth of the sport as a generic entity than having teams possibly close down due to riders not being shared around, meaning home crowds drop..

    Especially in Div 2 where clubs are using Div 1 level riders in the first place, and a 2nd div in any league has less kudos in winning than the top league in any sport.. 

    If the likes of Newcastle and Birmingham do close the sport will lose around 1500 or so die hards, who will have attended virtually every week..

    No team winning any league will add 1500 to their attendance every week of the season.

    Therefore. Another net loss in fans to add to the many other times this has happened over the past 20 years or so..

    And the irony of it all is that having uncompetitive teams also impacts every other team financially as when these teams visit, crowds will invariably drop due to some home fans feeling it not worth attending.. 

    Bottom line is, hardly anyone cares who wins any UK Speedwsy title, so the sport would be much healthier generically if the vast majority of meetings delivered entertainment through both teams being at least relatively even, and clubs all ended each season...

    Isn’t that why there’s a team building points limit ? So that all teams have the chance to be equal, at least at the start of the season .

    I doubt that Birmingham and Newcastle together have 1500 ‘die hard’ supporters based purely on their attendance levels last season as neither got anywhere near 750 regular attendees.

    No one cares who wins ? Ask the fans who support the winners if they care ….of course they do ! Yes, financially it makes little sense although if your a successful club crowds do increase in the majority of cases with Workington being the exception. My local club produces entertainment on a good track with good presentation and they have increased their attendances for the last 5 years since they got rid of the old school promotion style and got younger , enthusiastic , forward thinking promotors in.

    The healthy clubs are healthy for a reason. They work within their budget but still prioritise a competitive team producing entertainment that will attract a financially viable crowd, it’s called working to a business plan, many struggling clubs are simply not doing just that.

     

     

    • Like 2

  5. Posted

    17 minutes ago, lewy said:

    Don't think that was the case at Plymouth at all. He always gives 100% and certainly isn't afraid to get stuck in.

    Strange then that the most experienced and highly regarded member of his team told him told him just that !

    By getting stuck in do you mean try start a fight with all around or just ride beyond his skill level?

    He needs to wind his neck in and concentrate on riding and not try to play silly mind games with all around him.

    • Like 1
    • Confused 1

  6. Posted

    4 minutes ago, Racin Jason 72 said:

    With Poole having 3 number one riders hasn’t helped the situation. 

    and that’s Poole’s fault ?

    Quite a few teams have the same, it’s a dog eat dog sport and the Birmingham promotion have enough experience to know that.
    Newcastle aren’t exactly over loaded with top riders either.

    • Like 2

  8. Posted

    On 1/26/2022 at 8:37 AM, phillwhitewasmad said:

    Don't see the point in having redcar a and b or Edinburgh a and b teams in the same league and that is the point that's been made 

    Surely the point would be ( no matter which clubs were involved ) that more teams means more riders required meaning more team opportunities for new riders and more proper track time for all riders ?

    • Like 1

  9. Posted

    9 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

    Very much narrows it down. If i was to be awkward id say Redcar was one. Newcastle could have been the other as the demand was likely there but funded separately from the main club. Glasgow as much as it would suit feels a little less likely but equally possible. 

    Whoever they were its clear they know that having thier own riders develop and being able to see visiting riders is key when looking at future years teams. 

    Why be ‘ awkward ‘ ? It doesn’t matter who it is, the situation is being addressed and no one will miss out . From your guessing you obviously have no idea about each clubs junior set ups so let’s just wait and see what ‘ officially ‘ gets announced shall we.

  12. Posted

    It’s no secret that a couple of clubs are struggling to find ‘ youngsters ‘ to fill places in both capacity levels, this is because of lack of new kids coming through in the last few Covid affected seasons . A few of the clubs with a more forward thinking attitude and available track times have an excess of riders and it is hoped to spread the excess to other clubs to enable all riders to get experience on MORE tracks and not, therefore, visiting the same track multiple times.
    However, it is down to the individual riders if they wish to join a team which is not their local club and may mean excessive travel to the club that needs them. Remember, these kids do not get paid !

    All will be revealed in time.

    • Like 1

  13. Posted

    On 12/18/2021 at 3:49 PM, Sings4Speedway said:

    Age is no issue but preperation and attitude is. I don't rate Muff on the grounds that his prep is poor, his skill set is limited and any results are often throttle jockey related.

    Certainly look poor against Belle Vue. Top 2 are strong, Spooner is a good signing for anyone but 2nds strings are iffy and reserves should be the lowest pairing in the league (but probably wont be)

    isn’t it called a ‘ development league ‘ for a reason ?

    You could be describing several other individuals with your broad and critical comment. You ever tried riding a speedway bike ?

  14. Posted

    On 1/22/2022 at 10:02 PM, uk_martin said:

    It's been a fair few years since Poultec started their speedway apprenticeship programme.

    Can anyone list out the riders who have benefited from it, and which new faces to the sport have been introduced by way of this scheme, that may otherwise not have become speedway riders?

    Think you will discover that only those that were already riding speedway took part in the scheme.

    • Like 1

  15. Posted · Edited by Fortythirtyeight

    1 hour ago, customhouseregular said:

    What does NORA stand for?. The only Nora I can think is is Nora Batty.

    Possibly because of your age?

    NORA 92 Ltd is a motorsport body who licence and run all forms of motorsport, a bit like the A.C.U. but not so old .

    As the IOW have dropped out of ‘ Official ‘ BSPA/SCB speedway they run events under NORA .

    • Thanks 1

  16. Posted

    On 1/22/2022 at 11:55 PM, Lenny Lion said:

    Genuine question that somebody can hopefully answer for me.

    Why are Dan & Joe Thompson never involved in team GB training camps for under 23 riders ? Riders that finished well below them in the averages like Jason Edwards , Dan Gilkes , Jordan Palin & even Ben Trigger was invited to the latest one but no sign of Dan & Joe?

    It’s a voluntary scheme so perhaps they declined the invite? , some ‘ kids ‘ have full time jobs and simply don’t have the time to attend. There’s been some lads who have attended once and never returned , it’s personal choice, don’t read too much into it.

    • Like 2

  17. Posted

    2 hours ago, Chris116 said:

    The trouble with going away from the league sections is that I suspect fewer people read them. The racing on the island is National League standard, so leaving this thread where it is seems about right unless our mods want to move it.

    Whilst some NDL standard riders may make appearances at some of the meetings it will mainly be ‘ amateur’ racing as the vast majority of riders in all the proposed categories are exactly that. I have no issue with IOW appearing here but having its own section would be beneficial to those that want to follow the IOW and perhaps other NORA and even other amateur racing such as events at Scunthorpe, Iwade and Redcar.

  19. Posted · Edited by Fortythirtyeight

    1 hour ago, ljriley90 said:

    Heres one left of field.

    Not the german youd have thought but norrick blodorn has just signed for belle vue.

    Could he be a shout? Anyone know what his assessed average would be? I assume he will be on a 4 at belle vue

    Rides poland and only 17, tipped for big things

    Im not suggesting at number 1 but possibly to rider at number 4

    1 hour ago, ljriley90 said:

    He turned down other championship clubs stating he doesn’t want to ride in two divisions due to his already busy schedule so don’t count on that changing.

  20. Posted

    2 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

    Obviously the "plan" to create positions in CL teams so riders were forced to move up and out of the NDL has been scrapped rather than expanded (because it was poorly thought out once again) but there still could have been dare i say it "sensible restrictions" placed upon team building in both NDL and CL. Its been seen time and time again when a 2/3 point reserve takes to the track with a 10+ heatleader and surprise surprise the racing is processional. If the Upper cap of averages was limited it would force the level of riders to be closer together and just might create better racing and development of riders. 

    If the cap was a 10 point average then only two riders would have been ineligible from the NL (Gilkes & Thompson) if it was 9 those two plus Kinsley and Jenkins would be forced to move on. Hardly dramatic but would keep rider ability levels closer together. 

    Which would the lead to average fixing so not an answer at all ( yes, it has gone on ).

     The NDL is supposed to be a ‘ development ‘ league not a ‘ boost your earnings ‘ league so, if your good enough , move up a league and give another ‘ novice ‘ a chance of a team place in the NDL. There’s riders already declared in the NDL AND Championship who say their disappointed to not yet have a Premiership place, which is ridiculous. We only have a small amount of NDL teams so a small amount of places to develop , so let’s use them wisely.
     

    • Like 1

  21. Posted

    14 minutes ago, Islander15 said:

    When you put it like that it does sound nonsensical. But I think the thing we don’t know at the minute is how will the Premiership number 8s really play out. Sheffield’s number 7 might not get injured and Thompson might never ride or can he fill in incase of loss of form?

    Typical speedway…..we don’t know how it will work and neither do the people who brought it in, it will just get made up when it suits them .

    • Like 2

  22. Posted

    On 1/6/2022 at 12:09 PM, Gambo said:

    I disagree about the negative PR bit. Although Dan (and others) are named as #8 for PL sides, they are not guaranteed any outings!

    So Dan (and others) are predominately going to be CL & NDL riders with the occasional PL outing.

    Are you saying that Dan (and others) should miss out on potentially 10+ confidence boosting NDL meetings in favour of a few (if any) PL meetings?

    To be fare to ‘ Ghosty ‘ he/she makes a good point. We are expecting a complete novice new to the NDL , who may race once a fortnight if he’s lucky to then race against a rider who turns out twice a week in the championship and perhaps once a week against Grand Prix standard riders?

    Trying to get new fans is hard enough when you say our rider ‘X’ also rides for another team in a higher/ lower division ?

    Theres an imbalance there that you simply cannot explain to non speedway folk with any sense of credibility.

  23. Posted

    20 minutes ago, Ghosty said:

    You've missed the cost of a mechanic either fulltime £??? or on the night only £50 - £100.

    80% of ‘ mechanics ‘ ( and a lot of them are kidding themselves to be called that ) do it for a pie and a pint. Most are ‘ mates ‘ and do it for the love of the sport, there are some very good ones out there but they know the state of the sport and usually the rate ‘their’ rider is on and don’t charge such silly fees.

    • Like 2

  24. Posted

    21 minutes ago, mikebv said:

    Cannot remember which forum contributor it is who sponsors riders but a fair while ago he mentioned that one NDL/Championship rider he sponsored was looking at £25k a season (minimum) in running costs...

    Wasnt a "big name" either... 

    Then he’s spending too much on fancy vans, expensive engine tuners,  too many bikes or even ‘ team merchandise’ !

  25. Posted · Edited by Fortythirtyeight

    1 hour ago, Sings4Speedway said:

    So rough numbers using the 50 meetings quoted so 50 x £500 = 25k

    50 meetings ave 5 races a meeting = 250 races. Engine service every 35 races = 7 services a year £500 per service = £3500

    2 x Bikes to start the season less engines 5k each so current running total £13,500. 

    Then throw in kit like boots, helmets, undersuits if all fresh another 2k so around £15,000 thus far. 

    Then its running costs a set of clutch plates will be £100-160 (depends what he uses) and is likely changed every 1-2 meetings so anything from £2500-8000

    Then of course there is all the other running costs, items that get bent, broken along the way, engine blow ups etc that need to be accounted for.

    If Lawson sources his own van that will have costs attached also so its not overly hard to see how the costs can rapidly add up for a better end UK based rider.

    Oh and of course there is around 6k on hairbands, shampoo and conditioner after ever meeting :D

     

    He will be very fortunate to get 50 meetings in the UK unless he’s the most popular guest in both divisions and to be that he would have to be a lot cheaper than your wage estimates !

    Richard is not a greedy lad but you appear to be making it out he demands high wages. Whilst every rider deserves as much as can get , please don’t make figures up just for impact.

    • Like 2
    • Confused 1
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