Dave the Mic

Well, it wasn't quite put like that, was it? I was no lover of Carter & would never defended what he did, but Bruce took advantage of his position to slate Carter mercilessly. I don't condone murder in any way shape or form (obviously), but Bruce was no saint, regardless of what anyone might say & I felt that he should have kept his comments to himself. I'm not saying the comments were "scandalous or unfounded" but regardless of Bruce's feelings, taking advantage of his position as a contributor to backtrack to say what he did wasn't appropriate. If I can find the article, I'll quote it. Don't get me wrong, I think what Carter did was abhorrent, but Penhall (if he's a great guy as everyone seems to think) shouldn't have used his position to make his point. Not that he hasn't done so plenty of times before. Just my opinion.

Great rider, no doubt. Not sure that his leaving was the start of the demise of British speedway-can't see that at all. The White City display was the nail in his coffin here. Never one of my favourites, but what told me all I need to know about him were his comments about Kenny Carter in an edition of back track. Carter did a terrible thing, but Penhall's comments were out of order. He never liked Carter and simply used that platform to vilify him. Poor taste from someone who should have known better.

I accept your view, but I think there is a difference between characters & the kind of thing you are referring to. Winding up the crowd as the likes of Len Silver, Jack Millen etc used to do plus other "antics" were just that - antics. What we are referring to with some of the others, most certainly is not. Appreciate some may have defended the riders referred to & help them up as characters, but I most certainly did not. Errr, WTF?

Another one of our family skids off into the sunset. RIP Jimmy.

Agree with you, but for some reason, their indiscretions were swept under the carpet. Not sure why - the Californians were responsible for introducing the "partying" & drug culture to British speedway in the early 80's. No doubt Shawn & Kelly were great guys if you were a mate, but I'm not sure I condoned what they did, nor do I now. Same can be said of Carter. Great rider, yes, but how can you condone what he did? You can't. Nor can you with Ward. Characters we want, drugs, racing under the influence, murderers & the like, we certainly don't.

So you feel that people condone the Moran's being under the influence when racing? Or Carter murdering his wife? Interesting.

I agree to a point, but with respect, the kind of people I would refer to as "characters" would not be caught up in drink driving, implicated in possible rape cases & taking drugs. I don't call those things "cheeky antics" with all due respect to Darcy & his circumstances. I can't imagine anyone in any era would really condone that kind of behaviour.

Garrity is a good shout, as is Nicki Pedersen. I think Rosco & Havvy would be much larger personalities than they are, but I think, Steve, that your point regarding the sanitised nature of pretty much all sport these days, prevents any real characters emerging.

That is most certainly true. Every sport needs characters & there are not enough in speedway these days.

And? One, Doyle was excluded, I wonder why that would be? Two, Harris was already turning in, Doyle was committed & carried on. Three, is Harris supposed to just move over? Four, Doyle has a huge repertoire of these moves. Assume you have conveniently forgotten the hatchet job he carried out on Pedersen & Zagar? Some of his corner entries are ill judged at best, downright reckless at worst. Harris does nothing wrong here except turn it & gets his leg taken away by a poorly judged entry from Doyle & the same happened last night from Kildemand. Both were rightly excluded.

Absolute load of rubbish. I refer the honourable gentleman to the post I made a few moments ago.

Absolute boll***s. One, Kildemand has lots of previous - he is dangerous.Two, why should he just move over? It wasn't a clean pass, Kildemand took his leg away. End of. Just another Harris hater. You did really well in this post until showing yourself for what you ARE with your last sentence. Couldn't agree more.

Yawn. Robert, give him the credit he deserves, for goodness sake.

Whereas you are a shining beacon of reason & intelligence.

Echo all that has been said. One of a kind & the best Pole of his era. Get well soon Zenon.

I don't dispute that many speedway fans would like him in the series, but you are advocating making a special case for him & the reality is, he doesn't deserve that. If he wants to compete, he will, but he has turned down offers previously & won't do the qualifiers. Maybe that will change. I don't at all dispute that the riders should get more of the cake on offer, but Sayfutdinov should get no more than anyone else & that is what you were initially advocating. He does have the ability - or appears to - but until he is prepared to put his money where his mouth is, so to speak, his desire has to be questioned. Your analogy of Djokovic isn't relevant - he has won any number of majors & will probably go on to win more than any other male player to date. Sayfutdinov has won to European titles & nothing else. Your MotoGP example, as you rightly say, offers no comparison. The bottom line is, Sayfutdinov rides in the GP for what is on offer - the same as all the other riders - or he doesn't. No special treatment.

But why should he be on better terms than anyone else? At the beginning of the year they all start on 0 & he shouldn't be given anything special to compete - what happens if he gets offered a better deal than say, Greg & then Greg wins the title & Emil flops? And he isn't an "asset" of the GP series, is he? I'm not disputing the riders should get a better deal - but they ALL should, not just Emil. If he wanted to ride in the GP, he would, but clearly he isn't that bothered about being world champion, whilst Woffinden et al are. Not sure much of this is entirely correct. A work colleague's brother is a pro golfer on the tour, but doesn't make a particularly good living - it's surprisingly expensive to compete, what with all the travel etc. Further, I can't imagine that many of the young Aussies that have come over here are "independently wealthy", but they seem to get buy even if not doing very well & they are "professional sportsmen", are they not? I have oft been lambasted for saying that riders risk injury in the name of entertaining us - which I stand by - but I also accept that they would race for nothing in a disused quarry watched by one man walking his dog. Riders race because they like it. Sportsmen compete because they like it. They don't all make a decent living. Not sure your second paragraph holds much water either. I think it is unreasonable to call all professional sportsmen mercenaries. Perhaps some are & certainly many in football, for example, but I think to say almost all are, is way off the mark & you do them a huge dis-service in many, many cases. No, not everyone wants to be world champion, but then as you say, some go into sport & find they aren't good enough. The fact is, many sportsmen compete & lose money (speedway is a good example of that) & still take the risk. However, ask the likes of Leigh Adams, Chris Morton, Dennis Sigalos, John Louis, Tommy Knudsen, Jan Andersson, Scott Autrey etc, if they wanted to be world champion & I think we know what the answer would be. So, no, not every rider has the ambition to be world champion, but surely those that race in the kind of bracket that Emil does, harbour that ambition?

That's sad. I remember going to Exeter in 1975 - my first season watching speedway & seeing David & Martin. I think they rode at 1 & 2. Martin scored a hatful & David failed to score I think, but I always looked out for both of them after that. RIP David.

Why should they? So you advocate offering him the earth just so he rides? I'm sure all the other GP riders would love that. And regarding Woffinden, the difference is, he wants to be world champion as many times as possible & the only way he can do that is....

Nothing, it's his choice. But the point is, it shows his lack of desire to be world champion, isn't that what we are discussing?

Emil not being in the GP is all about money, pure and simple. Either he is being paid so much with a "no GP" strings attached rule to be the "face of the SEC", or he is being greedy. Either way, it seems he no longer harbours the desire to be world champion, which is a shame, I guess, but in the grand scheme of things, the sport is bigger than one rider. As for Dawkins 20's comment. Of course. Doh!

Not getting into titfortat who called who what, but Walter Mitty? If you just said who you are, the issue goes away. Further, Niamh isn't refusing to reveal their identity. Nor am I doubting your exchange with BWitcher, although I'm not looking it all up. However, try & see things from the POV of the other forum users. You make suggestions that Woffinden's bike are strangely fast, then cannot justify them & then won't confirm who you are, which would give your claims credibility, whereas at the moment, they lack any. Knowledgeable you may be, but your comments regarding Woffinden's machinery are off the mark. His bikes are quick, end of. Other riders bikes are fast too & over time, other riders have had the same scenario, Tony Rickardsson the most recent who seemed ahead of the game. Therefore your comments about how quick his bike are do you no credit. I don't know you from Adam, but you have made yourself look daft with some of the comments you have made in this regard. The fact that he was beaten by Hancock & Kildemand & then dropped points in Sweden last night indicate to me that his bikes are quick, but not so much that it seems out of the ordinary. Put to bed by the news that the first 3 from Krsko had their engines tested & were found to be legal. As such, your comments hold no water.

Well I cannot argue with that, but I do feel that if you make claims as you have & you have been quite rude - you called Niamh a "clueless dreamer" you should back it up with facts. No one is abusing you here, but you have made some pretty significant claims & then just argue the toss with people without substantiating your knowledge, which is why some people think you are a troll.

Have to say, I cannot understand why Robert is so reluctant to reveal who he is, if his claims are genuine. If these things are true, I would be perfectly happy to confirm my identity - why wouldn't I? You have to see, Robert, that by not being prepared to do so, people will question you. I must say, I find it hard to believe an ex rider would be quite as rude & aggressive as you have been in this situation.