Parsloes 1928 nearly

Hmm, well you're certainly on the wrong side of the river...: the Elbe!!!!!!

Hmm, I take your point about Millwall having been an East London side...: and they moved off the Isle of Dogs in 1910 so yes, that's certainly within the same time-frame as the Thames Association 'experiment'...!!! BTW, it's interesting that Millwall are often still thought of around the East End as an East End club in exile but when I suggest that Arsenal (who didn't leave Woolwich 'til 1919) are essentially a South London/Kent club most people think it's the ravings of a deranged lunatic...!!!

Nah, I NEVER stop at them and I'm sure you can verify...!!!!!

Did anyone see the excellent piece about the new (greater) redevelopment going on around Wembley during yesterday's coverage of the Masters Snooker on BBC 2..?? Included a piece on the history of the Empire Pool/Wembley Arena and some archive footage of Sir Arthur Elvin talking about the Pool at the time of its opening (for the '34 Empire Games, wasn't it..??). Interestingly when the presenter Ray Stubbs listed all the sports that have been staged there Speedway was actually mentioned second or third on his list : ahead of Cycling and Tennis!!! Ironically one of the buildings being cleared for the surrounding redevelopment (this was the theme of the piece, coz also now rubble is the former home of the Snooker there, the Conference Centre) is the unloved concrete monstrosity that had Sir. Arthur’s name: Elvin House office block.. An interesting aside too is that the ‘Empire Pool’ only ditched its by then long anachronistic name in 1978 – so Ivan Mauger’s win in the 1979 indoor Speedway there was actually among the first tranche of sports events to be held in the newly named Arena. I see that at the revamped place there’s a ‘hall of fame' thingy and we saw Stephen Hendry putting his hand prints there..: how about Wembley having our Ivan do likewise, eh..?? PS I hope you’ve noted that rather than start a new thread I’ve added this as a reply to norbold’s earlier thread, coz it is about pre-war Wembley..: AND draws attention to that geezer Jacobs’ excellent book on the subject..??!! Neat, huh..?? Crawling will (hopefully..!) get me every where…!!

The motivation behind building such a huge stadium at Custom House in the mid-20s is, I’d agree, something of a mystery. As the arena was ready for its first events in the summer of 1928 and having been such a huge building project, it is clear indeed - as iris says - that Speedway (which only debuted in the south of England that February) can’t surely have been foremost (or even there at all..) in the stadium builders’ minds when they planned the place. Dog racing must have been, I guess (I suppose in those days for whatever reason they were able to build quicker than we seem able to today..?!). Which leaves Football. I had, I’d admit, been labouring under the misapprehension that the football club came along some while later; but actually the club formed to play there, Thames Association played their first match within a month or so of the first dog and Speedway meetings.. Brian Belton mentions in his book, ‘When West Ham went to the Dogs’ that the stadium was built on the site of the Custom House Football Ground (sorry for raising your blood pressure here norbold: there are just two things that strike fear into our norb...: mention of the esteemed ‘Dr.’ (sic) and me uttering those four words, “Do you want a lift?”!!)… If the owners thought the football club could be a success they were sadly (dramatically so) mistaken.. iris refers to the club as the “legendary Thames FC”..: well maybe, but a football club legendary only for being without question the least successful and by far-and-away the shortest-lived of any senior club in history. Incredible isn’t it to relate that the club was actually only in existence from 1928 to 1932; and yet – having started in the Southern League – spent a couple of seasons in the Football League! The thing proven by their failure (how about a all-time lowest ever FL crowd of 469 punters for one match..: in a ground with a capacity then of 120,000!!!: that’s just 0.39% full..!!) was that (1) the 1920s was simply far too late to try and form a big club in London: the likes of West Ham United, Arsenal , Tottenham, Orient had – like most football clubs – been formed some thirty to forty years earlier and were therefore well-established; and (2) that though having a large ground undoubtedly gave the club a rapidly accelerated route into the FL , it only served to exacerbate, with the consequence of insolvency, the lack of support/demand for the club. Seems ironic to me that Thames had its spell in the sun whereas hugely successful and long-enduring non-league sides in the area remained massive clubs for years without a sniff of FL entrance: clubs like Ilford, Leytonstone, Romford, Barking and Walthamstow Avenue.. As Mr. Belton, writing of the Custom House bowl’s enduring enormity puts it, “it was a monument to the symbiosis between environment and architecture”…: phew!!! So, I wonder what were the (main) thoughts behind the construction of the ‘Wembley of the East End’..??!!

I don't think you have to be powerful to open a huge stadium. Just optimistic...!!!!!

Cliff Ott never rode for the Crayford first team. Don't think he appeared for the Juniors either but could be wrong there.. So are we saying then that 'Red' Ott was in fact Les Ottewell..??!!!! Rather ruins his nickname..!!

Cor blimey!! Now everyone can see what I have to put up when I give you a lift!!! And no, jokes from you please, norbold...!!!! It's good,though, that you've finally taken a break from the Bundy on the beach to add your long-requested contribution to this thread!!! And no, I didn't watch the Highwaymen '68-'70..: you have to remember, I AM considerably younger than you.....!!!!!!

Looking at a prog. from the 1982 season I see that a second half rider at Crayford (alongside the likes of Trevor Banks and Nick Smith was a rider named Cliff Ott. I wonder if he was any relation to Les of 'Red' nickname fame..???

The Harringay stuff's great... But folks I am DESPERATE for more on the White City meetings held under this similar banner...!!!!

I have a programme for an unusual event held at London’s White City on 24 May 1955. It featured Athletics (nothing unusual about that, for White City was the nation’s home of track & field then..), greyhound racing (ditto for that, of course); plus an early example of Rugby Union Sevens; Polo; Show Jumping; a five-a-side football match between Arsenal & Celtic; and – wait for it..!! – a Speedway competition featuring Aub Lawson vs. Barry Briggs and then Ronnie Moore vs. Cyril Roger. The two winners of these ‘match races’ meeting in a final two man race.. Of course, there was no Speedway track at White City at the time (and wasn’t to be again ‘til ’76) so among the questions this event throws up is: What track/surface did they race on..: the greyhound track or the athletics circuit..?? Also, if any one knows, what bikes were used; and what were the race outcomes and meeting result..?? Did, for example, the Speedway press report on this at the time..?? I'm guessing not as the meeting(s) are so shrouded in mystery..!! (PS if anyone also knows the result of the Arsenal vs. Celtic match I’d be grateful!! ). This was, as I say, in ’55; and according to the prog. notes wasn’t the first Cavalcade meeting. But was it the first involving Speedway and did Speedway feature again (as ‘Homes’ says..) in the ’56, ’57 & ’61 events..?? Any details of those meetings would too be very welcome

Yes - sorry..: the Athletics track.. I'm assuming, BTW, that this circuit was nowhere near as muddy as the TV dramatisation of the 1950s White City Athletics track shown in that ITV murder mystery of the year before last, 'Jericho'..?? That circuit was, of course, actually the Wimbledon Speedway one of 2005!! For more on this why not check out the current issue of 'The Speedway History Magazine' - email: oriolecy@btinternet or 'phone 01253 733288 for details. ** shameless plug over!!!!!

What makes the London White City ones so unusual (unique..??), though, is that at the time there was no Speedway track there for 'Speedway' events to take place on.. Manchester White City & Harringay (I'm think I'm right that Harringay Speedway had closed at the time related above...??) also weren't staging Speedway but did have (shale..??) Stock Car tracks so they could presumabley manage to stage more or less standard Speedway races, but on the Greyhound track at Wood Lane seems Vespas were used and heaven knows what kind of racing that resulted in..?? Did anyone out there actually see it, I wonder..???!!!!!

Do you want a lift to the studio..???!!!!!

Many, many thanks, MOTT..: brilliant..!! However, our friend on ebay has certainly got this wrong in listing what he says was the 24 May 1955 Cavalcade prog. I've got this prog. in my mitts right now and the 5-a-side match was most certainly listed as Arsenal vs. Celtic..!!! And there was no Cricket match on this occasion - instead there was Show Jumping.. The seller has clearly confused this prog. description with another of these Daily Mirror organised events supporting St. John Ambulance: maybe the 1953 event..??? I had heard that Vespas were used too. Certainly a weird concept...!!!!

Thanks for this. Don't know if it's just me being dumb or probs with my account(?!), but as all these items had closed to bidding I couldn't get the details of them up.. Did it mention Speedway at these three other events..??

I'm wondering if maybe there's been some confusion over the Daily Mirror-sponsored 'Cavalcade of Sport' meetings held in 1955-'58 (and again, I think, in '61) at the original White City (the one in the Shepherds Bush area of London)..?? It's these meetings which 'Homes' mentions; though I see that the Manchester book does make a (albeit very scant..) reference to a meeting in June '58 under the same generic title having been staged at Manchester's White City in '58... I'm about to open a thread on the London White City 'Cavalcade' meetings; and maybe we can establish if indeed in May & June '58 there were two meetings of (near..-?) identical names staged at both English White City Stadiums of that era..??

Looking back on it, Tony had a rather disappointing spell at London Rd. (ie Crayford) in 1978..: more or less ever present, his average was only just over five points in the league. May be worth delving into that as my memory was that for other clubs around that mid to late '70s period he performed generally a lot better than this sort of return suggests..

Hmm, surely this can't be right...???!!!!

Trevor Barnwell was my early fav in the Kestrels’ first season: he had a terrifically exciting around the boards style and I remember him getting a full maximum in our first home match and then winning the All Star Pairs partnering Laurie Etheridge. Trev had started at Canterbury and I think came from Kent..? He packed up (I suppose thru’ injury..??) in ’76 but actually made a surprise return in ’80-’82. In total he rode 71 matches for Crayford with an average (brought down by those later years, I’d say) of 6.30. Roy Barwick began, I think, as a Wimbledon second-halfer. I remember him as being very tall and that never helps in Speedway does it..?? His record was six matches at the back end of ’75 and very beginning of ’76: average was 3.29. Garry May either came from or went to Weymouth, I think. He rode 18 times for the Kestrels in ’77-’78 – average: 3.93. Good to hear about Chris Tritton..: I’ve a photo that Bryn has id’ed as Chris receiving the Young Rider of the Year award in around ’79 0r ’80..?? Mind you, Bryn didn’t have his specs on when he looked at this pic..: he did pick out his then mother-in-law as doing the presentation..: but then the image of a mother-in-law is always etched on the memory!!! Chris rode 18 league matches in total – average: 3.17. If you PM me I’d happily send the photo.. And look forward to meeting Chris at the reunion later this year..

"ex" journo..?? Surely speedy's penmanship is still very much alive and kicking in a worthy publication or two not far from here..??!!

Now, now sg..: you did make a posting yourself on this thread just a couple of hours before my one.. I'm not really trawling thru' the BSF archives looking to disagree with you...!!

Come on sg, lighten up..! Any stadium like this which remains standing has to present some opportunity for the return of Speedway...

Crickey, such a long time ago even before Holly was in the Barracudas team..!!!?? My first Canterbury match was vs. Long Eaton the following season ('72). Gary Cottham (senior) rode in that match for the Crusaders..: keep meaning to ask him, was it his first match..?? Does anyone else know..??

I'm massively impressed KB!! Have you similar for '83 when the Mighty (Junior) Kestrels actually won this competition..??!! Incidentally, that fella over in Oz surrounded by an ever-growing pile of empty beer-cans, might like to note that his then club managed to track sides in a southern-based Junior League competition WITHOUT putting in established League riders and Kiwi mercenaries and still came out on top..!!?? Times sure have changed..!!!