guitar_art

Safe to say The Brummies have not been tested so far this season. Its difficult to understand just how good the team is. I think we will have a much better feel for that after the next three matches. Cov and Buxton away followed by Cradley at home.

I don't remember any talk about Brum signing BWD. In fact (if my admitidly old and half functioning) memory serves me right, our team was put together by Phil Morris pretty much at the last minute.

Can you really? As far as I am aware Zach W became a Birmingham asset last year after completing the required number of meetings. In other words we already had that asset before the (unannounced) rule changes this year.

But how is putting a club in a position where it can't earn from it's discoveries serving anyone's greater good? We developed Zach last year we should have some chance of a return. Now that Zach has been stolen we may even have to pay a loan fee and wont get a loan fee from somerset. not exactly encouraging us to develop talent is it. And what about the fans? This has been a big kick in the teeth for Birmingham supporters and so many have said they wont now be attending (and I have to be honest it has more than crossed my mind.) I have to fear for our future.

But Birmingham have not been allowed to cash in as you put it.

Not extreme at all. There are a number of Birmingham supporters saying the same. I am still digesting the news but whatever happens I can't look forward to the new season. I mean what's the point we can't build for the future so we don't have a future. Time for the nl to make a stand. Not extreme at all. There are a number of Birmingham supporters saying the same. I am still digesting the news but whatever happens I can't look forward to the new season. I mean what's the point we can't build for the future so we don't have a future. Time for the nl to make a stand.

Yep.

I hate this mantle of favourite. I think back to our second season back in 2008. We were named by everyone as favourite for the league that season. Adam roynon, Kyle Legault, Jason Lyons, Phil Morris et al. I well remember the buzz at the press and practice. We couldnt miss with that team could we? What happened? We just missed out. Yeah we just missed out on the wooden spoon!!! Mind you 13 riders injured (Yes you read that right.) will kill any team.

He beat all of them last year I see no reason why it should be different this year. However it IS a pressure being number 1 and I for one will be happy for him to consolidate. Mind you he seems to thrive on pressure as several heat fifteen last heat deciders last year attest to. As for the PL I think it will be a suprise to him at the beginning and he may struggle a little but I have no doubt that by the end of the season he will have made great strides which will serve him well in his role as number 1 at Brum. Its going to be an interesting season I think.

They would not have done that.In 2007 Birmingham were excluded from the play offs because a match at Glasgow (I think) had not been run and that meant we were outside the top 4. (We actually finished second in memory serves.) We still had to go to Glasgow and run what had become a meaningless match.

I have no idea if anyone has posted this previously. If that is indeed the case please accept my apologies. Its video number thirteen that you are looking at. http://176.32.230.17/brummiesfans.com/gallery.php?cid=30 And this is Penhall's view. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnATdsDV5L0

BIRMINGHAM have added local lad Emerson Jones to their squad for the 2016 season. The 21-year-old from Stourbridge has signed on as the Surestop Brummies No.8 for the defence of their National League crown. Jones, who had a brief stint with Stoke a couple of years ago, turned down a main reserve team spot at other third tier clubs as he feels joining the Perry Barr outfit will be more beneficial. Said Jones: "Everything about Birmingham is so appealing and I'm really looking forward to next year. "Riding at No.7 for some of the other teams wouldn't have done me as good as joining the Birmingham squad; I feel they can offer me a lot more. "There's a lot of experienced people at this club and some exciting, young riders too and I'm sure I'm going to learn plenty over the season. "I don't want to rush things but hopefully by the end of the season I'll have done a few meetings for the club and show what I can do." Team manager Graham Drury said: "Emerson will be working with our Development Coach Rob Fortune over the season and we're delighted to welcome him to the club. "To turn down other clubs to join us as our No.8 is encouraging from our point of view and we'll see how things pan out. "We'll be involving him behind the scenes every meeting, he'll be having a spin after every home fixture and if he proves to me he's ready then he'll be given the opportunities to impress when the time is right. "For our final main team place there's a number of riders in contention. "Some are ones I've shortlisted and others have been brought to my attention on the recommendation of other people around the club. "I'm keeping my eye on amateur meetings and general feedback from others will play its part too but whoever we end up signing out of those in mind, they will be a good addition to our team."

I can tell you categorically that it was the other way round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLvgbeYRbhc

The little grashopper is back for Birmingham.

Rock n roll.

I am not going to address the fact that most of this post is actually personal remarks about me and therefore against the rules. I really am pissing in the rain with that one. It is sad though. However I do have to agree with the remark that old time fans are a problem. Well sort of. We are not the problem. The problem is more that there are not enough of the younger generation coming through. And the problem is not that promoters are catering toward the older generation. More that they are not really catering toward any generation and just hoping that people come through the gates. I have long held the view that the speedway environment is far to adult oriented and needs more to attract and keep the younger generations. I have some idea's on this front but will keep them to myself for the moment as I am about to make some suggestions to my local club. I will say that Technology is not exploited to its full. As for not having made any contributions there are plenty on here that seem to agree that I have. I believe I have only made one contribution. One that no one has answered. If I have waffled (and it is something that I have been accused of before.) I have at least done so in a respectful manner. Its a shame others can not say the same.

Again what is the relevance of my age? Why are people trying to turn this into young v old. (Have to tell you as an 'oldun' experience wins every day ) Your last sentence contributed nothing to the debate so why say it? And you are now telling me you can see the future. Here to stay? Who knows I don't. Who knows if we even have speedway leagues in this country in the future. Yes I concede all those other leagues have play offs. So what? It proves nothing. None of those sports are motor sport and do not have the unique to speedway factor of home track advantage. (Not to the same level at any rate.) This point has not been addressed and is the reason for my assertion that the play offs have a built in bias towards tracks with a greater amount of home track advantage. This advantage has actually been increased due to the dropping of any tactical element to matches. That is what makes it fundamentally unfair. That is the issue I have.

I have to be honest and say I cant show you otherwise.(Of course niether can you.) I will set up a poll like I threatened before sometime over the weekend and that may give us some kind of answer. However I still cant see the relevance unless you are arguing (and I am sure you are not) that a view honestly held by someone over 55 is in some way lesser to that of someone younger.

Its an interesting point. But I have to say I dont see the evidence and I don't see the relevance. My view has at least as much validacy as yours whatever my age surely? Or to put it another way. The debate should surely be about the issues and not about which age holds which view? As for being scared of change. The play offs have been with us for a good good while now. Surely I am the one arguing for change? I am actually very interested to find the answer to your point. i.e What is the age range of each view and what is the division between each view. In other words the percentage that hold each view.

I don't believe I have moaned. I believe that I have stated my opinion which differs from your own. I have not and will not use language that is insulting to others. Yes I am over 55 and I guess from your post you are not. This means I have seen more than you, have experienced more than you and have more life on which to base my views. However I have to concede this does not always mean I am right. Youth (or age) does not mean that your (or my) view is right/wrong/more appropriate/ etc. So your suggestion that over 55's tend to moan is at best nothing to do with the issue at hand and at worse downright insulting whether you intended that or not. I sincerely hope that you will be over 55 one day as it surely beats the alternative. It matters if the NL vote was unanimous because you asserted that the NL scrapping the play offs was proof that last year failed and that it was for financial reasons. You have provided no proof (because you don't have any, because the promoters themselves are the only one's with this info) that this is so. I in all honesty cannot provide proof to the contrary, However the fact that at least some clubs voted against the return of play offs would seem to suggest that those clubs at least do not agree with your assertion. This is a point you keep avoiding and have not yet argued against. Also I have also provided at least one reason (Conjecture I agree.) that the clubs that voted for the return of the play offs may have done so that is not for financial reasons. Again you have not addressed this point preferring instead to throw insult at a good section of the speedway public. I concede that the other leagues you mention use them. But none of this is pertinent to my central argument which is that play offs are fundamentally unfair because the have a built in bias. Incidentally most of this could be cured by having play offs at a neutral venue as is the norm in most other sports but I understand this would be problematical in speedway. Now look young man. I am happy to have a debate with you. I am happy for my arguments to be criticised. I will even concede points if your arguments win me over (In fact I did just that in the previous paragraph.) or even it the point is well made. But please try to have a debate without resorting to insults. You really don't need to you know. From your posts I understand that you are a literate and intelligent person. Perhaps you should let your intelligence speak for you. The truth is I am enjoying debating with you but would enjoy the process more if we could just stop attacking the poster and concentrate on the posts. Incidentally please don't think this is just aimed at your good self. There have been some posters on here arguing from the same side as me. They have said some things to you that if directed at me I could have been extremely angry. That is the point though isn't it. Once we start getting personal emotion takes over and people just shout at each other and the debate has gone out of the window.

I don't think we can lay the blame entirely at the door of Eastbourne. I am sure they wanted play offs. They would be stupid not to given there home advantage and the fact that they beat the best team over a season in the league over two legs and won all of the cup competitions. To get this in other clubs would have had to vote along with them. They should shoulder most of the blame.

??? For Birimingham fans from the 70's Arthur Browning was the ultimate character. Full maximum from the reserve berth in his firs match for Birmingham. Twice completed a race when his handlebars broke. Finishing third on each occasion if my memory serves. Many stories about Arthur taking offence at anothers riding tactics and letting them know in a way that required few words. (Usually in defence of a team mate.) Arthur has competed succesfully in the TT once using a speedway engine. Also if you have ever watched the cadbury milk tray advert with the Bike rider making a jump. That was Arthur. Arthur is still a character. Just ask the cradley fans that watched him demolish the fence at one of there meetings this year. I would also hold up Martin Smolinski and Ben Barker as recent Birmingham riders as real characters.

Whoops I said I wasn't going to participate further in this debate. Just wanted to make a further point. Football and its play offs have been held up as an argument for play offs in speedway. I would just like to state the obvious. They do not settle the league champs in that way and they use a neutral venue, something that happens in most sports that use a play off system. I have given an answer to your question at least as far as the NL is concerned. You have suggested it is for monetary reasons but have not provided any real evidence to support this other than your interpretation of a meeting that you did not attend. I respectfully suggest that this is not evidence but merely an opinion. I have given at least one alternative to your suggestion (This again is merely opinion) and pointed out that the vote was not unanimous so even within the NL there is a difference of opinion on this matter. Damn I said I was not going to rejoin the debate. The problem is I am enjoying it to much. Sigh!! I really must get myself a life. Please tell me how this adds to the debate?

Ok I am now going to attempt to answer some of the points below to the best of my ability. I hope that I can do so without resorting to bad manners, that will certainly be my aim. When I have finished I don't imagine that I will be making another post on the subject (though you never know) as I don't see the point. I would like to make it clear that this is not because I in anyway concede any of the points in the posts I am quoting or any other. This means that I will of course be leaving others to have the last word but I don't have a problem with that. Unlike others I am not stating that I am right. As I have previously said I believe its not as black and white as that. However my views are my views and I have not (so far) heard any argument that has made me change my mind. My view is simple. Play offs in a speedway context are unfair for reasons I have already stated and will probably restate below. We have been compared in this debate to other sports which is why I have said in a speedway context. This sport is unique in so many ways and one of those ways is the home track advantage argument. No other team sport that I can think of carries so big an advantage to the home team. One of the reasons that I have suggested that any T/S rule should only be available to the away team. I am not holding myself up as the be all and know all on speedway matters and I am happy to be criticised and corrected if this is done with good manners. Anyway for what it's worth here is my attempt at answering the points made. In finishing I will say. It is a shame that some have not been able to conduct a debate without bad manners. I hope that this accusation cannot be made against me and if I have upset anyone, it was not intended and I apologise. I have enjoyed the debate such as it is. I do not and never have expected to change the opinion of those I have debated with. Those opinions are honestly held and I respect and understand that. For me the debate is for those that are wavering or have no firm opinion. I will now leave the debate for others. Not because I have nothing more to say (those that know me know that will never be true ) not because others posts or opinions are so strong that I am not able to repudiate. No the real reason is that I have a life. Anyway members of this site have now heard my voice for long enough on this subject and its time for others to have their say. I would just ask that everyone, from both sides, treat each other with respect. Don't forget that the only reason that any of this is important to us is the love and passion we have for this sport. That is something we all have in common, and there is not enough of us to fall out over such things. I have to finish with. Brummies are Best. lol