Lynch? Tuners? Bottle?

[Peter 0]

The World Youth Cup has just taken place, a few meetings where youngsters take part in races on 80cc speedway bikes. Out of 58 entrants, there were no British riders. Whose fault is this? The BSPA's? The riders? There was a lad in it from Australia who travelled half way around the world to compete in it, yet he hadn't been on an 80cc bike before so the argument that we don't have 80cc speedway in Britain doesn't wash. Are British riders out there willing to travel the relatively short distance in comparision to Australia? I get the impression that a lot young British riders just want to go as fast as they can, so they get two or three 500cc bikes and travel in a van with the words "International Speedway Rider" plastered all over it. Young British riders should progress though the engine sizes 80, 125, 250 rather than jump straight on a 500. In under 15 meetings, you only have to look at the number of fallers there are. It's like they are being fast-tracked.

 

What bugs me is that people say "there's nowhere for kids to practice" when there are tracks like Buxton that can be used almost every day of the year. What's going on at these tracks when they don't have a meeting? It should be used whenever the kids aren't in school. What good is it when you've got guys like Graham Jones and Louis Carr or whoever when you've not got the bikes? (not criticising those two by the way) Do Denmark employ Erik Gundersen and give him no bikes?

 

Finally, we need to stop allowing foreigners to race in Britain below PL level. If they have British parentage then that's all right. They should have to reach a certain level before they can be signed by a club. Using a foreigner in the CL or Academy League is taking up a place that should be for British riders. Get rid of the stupid Rider Replacement rule in the CL. It goes completely against what the league was set up to do.

[Vintage '69 0]

I will not buy into this argument that it the fault of British Speedway that there are not enough world class British riders coming through.

 

Taken to it's logical conclusion, then the weakness of speedway in Australia, (eg last winter, neither Crump, Adams or Sullivan bothered to enter their national championship) should mean the Aussies are nowhere. Yet, they have the one set of riders who are the most likely to defeat the Danes. Where have these Aussies honed their skills, if not in the British Elite League? Where is the first port of call for any aspiring Australian speedway rider?

 

No I'm afraid you are going to have to look elsewhere for the reasons.

 

 

[Pollyanna 1]

Ok I read it and agree with you his analogy aint far wrong reaslly is it Sad Really.

 

Trees .... without wanting to start an argument here, I would of thought Mark Loram is probably concentrating more on getting back to full strength and Floppy well you're guess is as good as anyones .... has anyone seen him apart from at Eastbourne?

 

 

I thought Mark LOram is one of those involved in the group to work with GB juniors this year?

He obviously can't do too much at present, but in the SS he stated that he is looking forward to working with the youngsters as soon as possible.

[spook 28]

Did you not think so then wow you should read a nasty one!!!

 

well to be fair I did post that before you were 'nice' ......... and ive read some of your nasty ones which is why I completely keep on your good side

 

Finally, we need to stop allowing foreigners to race in Britain below PL level. If they have British parentage then that's all right. They should have to reach a certain level before they can be signed by a club. Using a foreigner in the CL or Academy League is taking up a place that should be for British riders. Get rid of the stupid Rider Replacement rule in the CL. It goes completely against what the league was set up to do.

 

 

yes I agree Peter but what is the point if policy dictates that opportunities in the PL are few and far between for guys coming from the CL? I like an exciting and accomplished overseas rider like the next guy but he should be of a certain standard and coming in at a fixed high average........ the 5 assessed PL average encourages teams to go for strength in depth and have a maximum of one 3 point rider... if any.......... the whole league is choked and purely because the promoters knew about the numbers of Aussies that they could sign this season and this is on top of the usual asset signing with the holy grail being false averages and prosperous assets........... once again as per other threads it is not the fault of these riders.... it is the fault of the promoters

 

If they did the sensible and supportive thing in the PL and CL and stuck to the plan results would be seen within 5 years and then attentions could be turned to the EL

[mikegum 0]

With you Spook, all the way.

I was not only saddened last night, but I was also very angry.

I have been saying much the same as you for quite a few years now. Unless the powers that be actually wake up and become aware of what has been happening for so many years now, the sport will die in the UK. As it is, it is now like a walking skeleton from whichever way you look at it. It needs feeding and nurturing from the grass roots up, even if it means going 5 years without any overpaid and highly skilled and motivated foreign riders within each of our leagues. Spend the money saved in air fares and develop a BRITISH PRODUCT. Remember Middlo going on about the shortage of British talent for the National Team, and then with the promoters (ahem!!) at his club, splashing out on Poles with low averages to then bring them on and develop them, whilst our youngsters didn't know if they were on foot or horseback. And yes, fans are equally to blame for not demanding to see more home produced talent. And when we do get someone like TW, so many pick holes in whether he considers himself to be an Aussie or a Brit instead of accepting the fact that he rides as a Brit and is packed-full of talent. Remember the days when Ronnie Moore and Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger rode as Brits, even though they were all New Zealanders? No-one quibbled then. I am not suggesting that today's batch of antipodeans should ride under the Union Jack, but what I am saying is don't take your eye off the ball and accept and encourage the likes of TW and EK etc, 'cos we need 'em and more besides if we are to move forward.

 

Spot on & the thing is that this hasn't sudenly happened, we should have taken note in the early 80s when we became a fininshing school for young Danish talent & helped create the super power they are today.

 

[spook 28]

I will not buy into this argument that it the fault of British Speedway that there are not enough world class British riders coming through.

 

Taken to it's logical conclusion, then the weakness of speedway in Australia, (eg last winter, neither Crump, Adams or Sullivan bothered to enter their national championship) should mean the Aussies are nowhere. Yet, they have the one set of riders who are the most likely to defeat the Danes. Where have these Aussies honed their skills, if not in the British Elite League? Where is the first port of call for any aspiring Australian speedway rider?

 

No I'm afraid you are going to have to look elsewhere for the reasons.

 

I dont get your point on the aussie national championship vintage? what has that got to do with the quality of aussies coming through?

 

yes exactly Britain is their first port of call at a young age.... they have learned and honed their skills here ....... if they are doing that here then this has reduced the chances for our young guys.....no?

 

 

[speedy den boy 19]

i JUST WISH CHRIS HARRIS WOULD RACE HIS BIKE RATHER THAN COMING ON THE TV EVERYTIME SAYING "def we will be alright,wll just put that race to bed and move on!!!"hOW MANY times is he going to say that or does he just want to get his monster drinks can on tv and dont worry about racing.

[SUPERACE 440]

So many accusations, short term solutions and critical posts and yet the writing has been on the wall for so many years......... yes our guys underperformed and the bikes were pants but this issue was spotted seasons ago when we were Loramski-less ............ at that point we had an ex world champion still at the top of the game relatively.......... 2 guys still not at their peak who were with him in the gp's and Norris and Barker who could all still do a job........ the issue at that time was that Havvy and Screen were no more the force that they used to be and were no better than Norris and Barker............... and there was nothing under them who were looking potentially the real deal with the exception of Bomber, Stead, Neath and Howe

 

So what has happened since?

 

Howe has become a solid club rider who performs well at home.......... stead has become a steady club rider ........ Neath went for the security of the PL and has assumed that level ....... Bomber made it................. Norris had a one year resurgence but along with Barker has since retired.......... Screeny has regressed a little more ......... Havvy is in the PL slightly going backwards........ Loramski has been beset with injury ........... Louis has returned but once again has suffered with injury and can not be classed as anywhere higher than the bracket that Havvy and Screen were in...... and the same minimal amount of youngsters are starting to come through

 

so on the basis of what happened with the last crop of youngsters it would be fair to say that a quarter of the ones that people tip for the top will actually be making it............ so out of Bridger, Kennett, Woffinden and King only 1 should be making it............. personally I think two from that group will be but that isnt the point............ the point is that while the rules and attitudes amongst the promoters remain the same and that the asset system is there to use and abuse we will consistently have only a handful of youngsters coming through of which only one from each crop will make it to world class level................ this means that consistently the GB team will have 3 at most guys who's skill level is good enough to be there

 

Every thread that comes up that discusses our grass roots and the youngsters that are or arent coming through we always have those supporters who's attitude towards it is defensive and almost as if they are replying on behalf of their own club's policy......... and yet we have the same guys moaning here about the performance of the brits...... get used to it because until the promoters stop playing the asset game and investing in overseas youngsters rather than our own this will remain the same ........

 

The Conference League has been treated like an irritation - or something to exploit................ the PL has possibly the fewest amount of brits per team than there have ever been and looking down the averages there are only a few of them that could/should be stepping up................... the EL is obsessed with finding the next Sajfutdinov on a 5 because the rules permit it ... or the next Chris Holder to be farmed out to a PL club because the rules permit it..... rather than showing the same support and investment to our guys.......

 

I'd also like to head off the 'If they are good enough they will make it' brigade because it is nonsense......... if they get the opportunities they have a chance of making it......... if the opportunities are thin then only a select few have a chance of making it...... and out of those few one or none will make it

 

Ultimately the blame lies with the promoters and by extension the supporters.................. the promoters are only too happy to continue with this nonsense monopoly game of assets that they have created ..... and when a plan does manage to get through the conference that is to the benefit of the grass roots it is removed for no apparent reason after a year or two when results were starting to be seen....................... and the fans? .......... we currently have a thread in general with fans jokingly arguing about who has dibs on emil sajfutdinov on a 5 .... only behind the joking is a real urgency to win the race for him on such a false average and what would be a lucrative free asset if he was loaned out or sold later on................. the fans have lost the plot as much as the promoters by actually not only aknowledging the system but behaving as if it is completely normal

 

What as bomber made because he hasnt made it as a world class rider yet.

Edited July 15, 2008 by SUPERACE

[loyal royal 3]

i JUST WISH CHRIS HARRIS WOULD RACE HIS BIKE RATHER THAN COMING ON THE TV EVERYTIME SAYING "def we will be alright,wll just put that race to bed and move on!!!"hOW MANY times is he going to say that or does he just want to get his monster drinks can on tv and dont worry about racing.

 

 

 

" Last year............i had a dweam................on Monday night..............i had a wet one ! "

[speedway_dan 21]

Unfortunately the problems called "Looking after you're own" something the Danes and Poles manage to do fantastically but we somehow struggle when it comes down to it.

 

Time after time we have been presented opportunity's on our own tracks yet we cant prepare a race track when 9 times out of 10 we only produce racers who love a grippy track they can race on. How the on earth that manages to occur when we are the HOME team is beyond me....i don't quite think they had the same problem in Poland last year.

 

Furthermore, the level of machinery simply isn't there compared to the likes of Crump, Andersson, Pedersen, Adams and Gollob for example. I can guarantee that all their earning go straight in their pockets and sponsors/partners provide the cost of being an international level performer. That level of sponsorship simply isn't their for the British lads at senior or junior level.

 

Unfortunately I tend to agree that speedway in this country is in a bigger mess than some people seem to think and the BSPA itself do a great job of "Looking after their own" because to be honest they couldn't give a monkeys about Team GB or where are next world champion is going to come from as their club interests are paramount - which will be forever under the current structure.

 

 

[Subedei 0]

Time after time we have been presented opportunity's on our own tracks yet we cant prepare a race track when 9 times out of 10 we only produce racers who love a grippy track they can race on. How the on earth that manages to occur when we are the HOME team is beyond me....i don't quite think they had the same problem in Poland last year.

 

I remember the Poles complaining about the track for the final at Leszno last season.

 

[Beeone 0]

Anyone who has a programme from last night should make a point of reading Kelvin Tatums article. He makes the point that the Danes have Gunderson training their kids and he says the training schemes in Poland are unbelievable. He also points out that speedway must be the only professional sport in Britain that has absolutely no full time coaches working within it whatsoever! He makes the point that as a former rider, he can see the faults and bad riding habits in certain riders, but that by the time these riders are in their twenties, it is almost impossible to sort these things out, as they need to be spotted and corrected while they are still kids learning the basics. Now I know Kelvin isn't everyones cup of tea, but his article made a lot of sense in my opinion.

I know people will keep going on about the number of young Aussies that come over here, but if you look at their top guys, they didn't learn the basics over here, they had done that at home in Australia, as did young Tai, he didn't suddenly learn to ride when he got over here did he! I remember reading last winter about Leigh Adams holding some training sessions down under for young riders, when do any of our young guys get a chance like that?

[Beeone 0]

 

Here we go again, 'the track was too slick /grippy / wet / dry!!!', absolute rot, it was the same For everyone if the Danes and Swedes and Rymel could find a setup for it,then our guys should have been able to as well ! As for "our boys are racers". They would find the job easier if they learned to get out of the start once in a while. Mind you that doesn't help much if you are going so slowly that any quality rider can just pass you along the straight!

Edited July 15, 2008 by Beeone

[bazaar3 0]

How about the BSPA get their fingers out their arses and start doing something about British Speedway?

 

 

Brilliant

 

[kingpin23699 0]

I must say that some track conditions suit some riders more than others.

I've been Tenpin bowling for 40 years, and play at quite a high level and have seen the difference in players on different conditions.

You can do whatever you like to lane conditions/track conditions or whatever and there'll always be someone who copes with them better than anyone else.

Take Formula1.....and Michael Schumacher for instance...in the wet he was practically unbeatable...even last sundays race showed you the drivers who performed well in the prevailing conditions!

Don't underestimate the importance of track conditions...they CAN and DO change results.