British Sgp Decline

[Humphrey Appleby 13,961]

If you knew anything about the Olympic authorities' desire for legacy and for maximising use of the main stadium

 

Unfortunately, I think economic realities will set in with the Olympic Stadium and it'll be sold off as a football ground or dramatically reduced in capacity if it stays as an athletics stadium. Large athletics stadiums are simply unsustainable as evidenced by the crumbling Olympic stadiums around the world.

[MattK 3,447]

One of the benefits of the old system of one off world finals was that any profits made went back into Speedway. The prize money for the present GP's is a pittance. Where does the rest of the money go,certainly not back into Speedway.

I don't agree with this "trickle down" arguement.

 

The only time speedway receives any kind of national media coverage is during the Cardiff GP. If we didn't have a GP, then there would be no media coverage at all.

 

If promoters cannot take this and built on it, then that's their problem.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,961]

The only time speedway receives any kind of national media coverage is during the Cardiff GP. If we didn't have a GP, then there would be no media coverage at all.

 

I'm not sure how an occasional 2 or 3 column inches in the national press justifies speedway not getting a cut of any profits. Moreover, many sports with virtually no national coverage whatsoever get better attendances than speedway.

 

National media coverage is even less critical in these days when fewer and fewer people read papers, and television viewing is diluted over umpteen channels.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Humphrey Appleby

[george.m 3,063]

If you say so

 

Surely the "very important point" of earlier start time can't be the key factor for the significant decline in viewing figures decline in both 2009 & 2010?

 

Why not?

[Jeff Scott 0]

Why not?

 

Firstly, my article discussed many factors while the comment you quote from the BSF also has a context you're taking it out of &, er, to answer your query:

 

since the Cardiff SGP rounds in 2009 & 2010 both started at 5pm - the 79,000 shortfall this year is an apples with apples comparison (rather than an exceptional new explanatory circumstance I'd failed to mention as the other gentleman had noted).

 

Apparently some feel the 104,000 shortfall in 2009 was exceptional circumstance prompted by changing the start time from 7pm to 5pm rather than being any reflection upon the diminishing enthusiasm of the UK television audience (as recorded by BARB). This PoV ignores the trend towards falling audience figures for other SGP rounds (where the start times remained the same) in both 2009 & 2010

[george.m 3,063]

Firstly, my article discussed many factors while the comment you quote from the BSF also has a context you're taking it out of &, er, to answer your query:

 

since the Cardiff SGP rounds in 2009 & 2010 both started at 5pm - the 79,000 shortfall this year is an apples with apples comparison (rather than an exceptional new explanatory circumstance I'd failed to mention as the other gentleman had noted).

 

Apparently some feel the 104,000 shortfall in 2009 was exceptional circumstance prompted by changing the start time from 7pm to 5pm rather than being any reflection upon the diminishing enthusiasm of the UK television audience (as recorded by BARB). This PoV ignores the trend towards falling audience figures for other SGP rounds (where the start times remained the same) in both 2009 & 2010

Sorry Jeff I remain to be convinced. We are not comparing apples with apples. You cannot ignore the fact that the world cup was on at this time. That has an impact on viewing figures, not only from a perspective of direct competition i.e. simultaneous broadcasting, but time available to watch TV. In other words, "only X amount of sport allowed on the TV in our house today".There would be world cup parties and barbecues. A 5pm start means there is less latent viewers available as 5pm is a time when people could be returning from an afternoon out or getting a meal ready. An evening start means more people are available to watch. The weather in both years is also a factor have you considered this?

 

More factors need to be considered before a valid and impartial conclusion can be drawn.

Edited September 3, 2010 by george.m

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

The only time speedway receives any kind of national media coverage is during the Cardiff GP. If we didn't have a GP, then there would be no media coverage at all.

 

Does it...??

1) I've never noticed any significant national media coverage for the Cardiff GP; and 2) Actually the Daily Mirror (a national paper.. ) has a small column in it something like five days a week, featuring Speedway news. Actually this column is no bigger on the ocassion of Cardiff than any other time!!!

 

TV coverage..? Well, do you suppose that the TV figures for a World Final on Sky are going to be somehow hugely less than for a GP..? I'm actually not too bothered about TV viewing figures, I'm more concerned about numbers attending in the flesh AND on our sport and its riders having a proper World Championship...

 

Hold a GP at the Olympic Stadium - but what I'm saying is that at the end of the day, an event when something's actually decided as opposed to just a 'qualifer' type meeting is ALWAYS going to capture the public's imagination far more.. A World Final in October 2012 at what would at that point be the most famous stadium in the world...: can you even conceive of what a boost to our sport that would be..?!!

[WIE-JA 72]

Does it...??

1) I've never noticed any significant national media coverage for the Cardiff GP; and 2) Actually the Daily Mirror (a national paper.. ) has a small column in it something like five days a week, featuring Speedway news. Actually this column is no bigger on the ocassion of Cardiff than any other time!!!

 

TV coverage..? Well, do you suppose that the TV figures for a World Final on Sky are going to be somehow hugely less than for a GP..? I'm actually not too bothered about TV viewing figures, I'm more concerned about numbers attending in the flesh AND on our sport and its riders having a proper World Championship...

 

Hold a GP at the Olympic Stadium - but what I'm saying is that at the end of the day, an event when something's actually decided as opposed to just a 'qualifer' type meeting is ALWAYS going to capture the public's imagination far more.. A World Final in October 2012 at what would at that point be the most famous stadium in the world...: can you even conceive of what a boost to our sport that would be..?!!

Something is always decided at a GP-the winner of that particular Grand Prix! Other motorsports do quite well with this system whether on 2, 3 or 4 wheels. Much better to have 10 or 11 GPs per season on telly than one World Final that casual viewers might forget to watch.

[Jeff Scott 0]

Sorry Jeff I remain to be convinced. We are not comparing apples with apples. You cannot ignore the fact that the world cup was on at this time. That has an impact on viewing figures, not only from a perspective of direct competition i.e. simultaneous broadcasting, but time available to watch TV. In other words, "only X amount of sport allowed on the TV in our house today".There would be world cup parties and barbecues. A 5pm start means there is less latent viewers available as 5pm is a time when people could be returning from an afternoon out or getting a meal ready. An evening start means more people are available to watch. The weather in both years is also a factor have you considered this?

 

More factors need to be considered before a valid and impartial conclusion can be drawn.

 

Well, George, you've certainly come up with quite a few novel mitigating factors! I like your creativity. Considering all these it's a marvellous achievement they cobbled together more than 10 viewers

 

Let's not forget it could be bath night or, perhaps, clothes needed ironing or maybe a mass turn off after horoscopes warning of back luck for any Gemini's or Aries watching too much satellite telly?

 

Wish I'd been invited to one of those Third Place Play off "world cup parties and barbecues"

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

Something is always decided at a GP-the winner of that particular Grand Prix! Other motorsports do quite well with this system whether on 2, 3 or 4 wheels. Much better to have 10 or 11 GPs per season on telly than one World Final that casual viewers might forget to watch.

 

Hmm, but how much does it actually matter who wins the GP.. Fairly often a rider outscores the winner on the night and all that REALLY matters is that points total on the way to first place in the series overall...

In other words each GP has the status of an 'Inter-Continental Final': and I've read plenty of the usual suspects branding those meetings of the past utterly worthless in terms of winning...! And coz the GB round is so early in the series it doesn't even get the status of an Inter-Continental Final...!! It's more like the Nordic-British event!!!

 

You can tell how little importance winning an individual round is from Greg Hancock's attitude in the GB GP Final of 2007... Anyone really believe he'd have let Crump past him on that last bend; but harmless home rider, Harris..?: well, that's a different matter... And before the GP apologists line up to cry how Greg didn't let Bomber past him in that fateful race etc., fast forward in your memory to the GB GP Final the next year when the Sky commenators openly referred to the fact that he had!!!

 

That sort of thing is always possible when there are such veterans in the field with no hope of actually winning the whole series (Hancock was last World Champ in 1997 for goodness sake!!) - sure he's still a major player but he can clearly take it or leave it; and what's really needed in a World Championship is everyone determined to do all they can to win it..

[WIE-JA 72]

Hmm, but how much does it actually matter who wins the GP.. Fairly often a rider outscores the winner on the night and all that REALLY matters is that points total on the way to first place in the series overall...

In other words each GP has the status of an 'Inter-Continental Final': and I've read plenty of the usual suspects branding those meetings of the past utterly worthless in terms of winning...! And coz the GB round is so early in the series it doesn't even get the status of an Inter-Continental Final...!! It's more like the Nordic-British event!!!

 

You can tell how little importance winning an individual round is from Greg Hancock's attitude in the GB GP Final of 2007... Anyone really believe he'd have let Crump past him on that last bend; but harmless home rider, Harris..?: well, that's a different matter... And before the GP apologists line up to cry how Greg didn't let Bomber past him in that fateful race etc., fast forward in your memory to the GB GP Final the next year when the Sky commenators openly referred to the fact that he had!!!

 

That sort of thing is always possible when there are such veterans in the field with no hope of actually winning the whole series (Hancock was last World Champ in 1997 for goodness sake!!) - sure he's still a major player but he can clearly take it or leave it; and what's really needed in a World Championship is everyone determined to do all they can to win it..

It is important to riders to win GPs. Not only is there financial reward on the night, but also status when approaching sponsors, negotiating contracts with continental promoters, and of course they are competitors and they all want to win. The old qualifying rounds had no relevance for casual tv viewers etc. People recognise titles such as European Champion, World Champion and of Grand Prix winner.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

The old qualifying rounds had no relevance for casual tv viewers etc. People recognise titles such as European Champion, World Champion and of Grand Prix winner.

 

European Champion was indeed the title bestowed on the winner of the penultimate round in the Western European part of the qualifying process up to the mid-70s... Peter Collins won the European Final in 1974 at, er, that little known ramshackle track out in the middle of nowhere called Wembley Stadium!!

 

BTW, I still haven't heard any coherent argument actually in FAVOUR of the GP system... All its apologists do is attack what they perceive as the shortcomings (and as in several threeads above they more often than not get these wrong! ) of the previous system of worldwide QRs and a one-off Final!

 

These people remind me of those on another part of the BSF who can only defend the Monarchy by pointing out what they perecive as the weakness in having a President!

If something's good it should be able to be defended for its own merits not the demerits of alternative systems!!

So come on, over to the GP brigade!!!

[george.m 3,063]

Well, George, you've certainly come up with quite a few novel mitigating factors! I like your creativity. Considering all these it's a marvellous achievement they cobbled together more than 10 viewers

 

Let's not forget it could be bath night or, perhaps, clothes needed ironing or maybe a mass turn off after horoscopes warning of back luck for any Gemini's or Aries watching too much satellite telly?

 

Wish I'd been invited to one of those Third Place Play off "world cup parties and barbecues"

 

Well Jeff unlike you I don't have a pre-conceived personal agenda that I'm working to and/or a single, self opinionated point of view of people who at least try to improve speedway. They don't hide behind a keyboard critiquing it, they have the entrepreneurial spirit to aim higher. The tone and content of your reply was exactly what I suspected it would be ... but thought I'd put to the test! Thank you.

 

You really should show more respect to the people who buy or could potentially buy your books.

 

PS ... Having been involved in brand marketing and advertising for over 30 years I do have a wee bit of knowledge of what can affect TV ratings and despite the stand point you write from I have seen little evidence of a valid, impartial and credible argument from you on this "catastrophic further collapse"!

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

You really should show more respect to the people who buy or could potentially buy your books.

 

Bloody hell, Jeff's been on a one man (with pen and hidden tape recorder...) crusade to upset the whole of the Speedway world since 2005... There can barely be anyone he's not dissed in one way or another by now..

[orion 7,618]

 

Wish I'd been invited to one of those Third Place Play off "world cup parties and barbecues"

 

 

Me to ..you could put all the gabage you write on the fire next time you have a go try to put all the facts together before having a dig with your bias rubbish .