Gp Qualifier Berwick 16/6

[Humphrey Appleby 13,971]

WHERE is your evidence that TV audiences have dropped?

 

Where is the evidence they haven't? We keep hearing about all these countries in which the SGP is now shown, but what sort of viewing figures are we talking about?

 

For the record as well, I travel regularly in Europe and to some extent elsewhere in the world, and I've yet to see the SGP shown anywhere but the 3 or 4 main speedway countries (and I do make a point of looking). If highlights are shown in all the claimed countries, I can only assume they're on some obscure channel in the middle of the night.

 

Lack of new faces is hardly the fault of BSI

 

Well it is to some extent, because new faces come through domestic competition which has subsumed by the SGP. In addition, there are far fewer opportunities for new names to break into the SGP compared to the old World Championship system, because it's not just a case of getting recognised, but also coming from the right country at the right time and having the right backing.

 

As for a reduced SGP series ... it won't happen. There is a queue of prospective stadiums lining up to stage a GP, inside and outside of Europe.

 

Yes, but it's not just about having the stadium, but also putting up a suitable amount of cash to stage a GP. If it's so attractive to stage a GP, why has there only been one staged outside Europe to date, and 10 years and at least two abortive attempts to get the next one?

 

For all i say the gp series does work and maybe just 6 to 8 meetings is the answer or is it just a money making cow? i dont know.

 

The more GPs, the more money can be raised from staging fees and possibly television as well. I suspect the main limitation is the number of willing tracks and the number of wage paying meetings you can reasonably expect the riders to give up.

 

However, if the SGP expands much more during the European season, it will start to come into conflict with Poland. At the moment, the 12 rounds can just about be fitted around the Polish league season, but I suspect neither the Polish clubs or their riders will be very happy if they have to start missing meetings they earn their bread-and-butter from.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Humphrey Appleby

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

THERE is no need to increase the number of GPs in Europe. But some of those presently staging one may drop out and others come in. Australia and the USA are very much on the horizon.

 

IMG's involvement in motorsport events is relatively new but is growing significantly.

 

Countries showing the GP series in 2012: Australia, Balkans, Bulgaria, China, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, India, Middle East, New Zealand, Poland, Romania, Russia and Baltics, Singapore, Slovakia and Sweden.

 

Also Africa Supersport which includes South Africa and many others. Eurosport and in South America Fox America.

 

I simply don't accept that domestic speedway in Australia, Denmark, Sweden or Poland has been subsumed by the SGP or that the problems of British speedway can be laid at their door rather than Rugby.

 

The only way that the SGP can grow and prosper - and I do accept and understand that many people in the UK don't see that as being a good thing - is for a company like BSI/IMG with the vision, professionalism, and willingness to speculate to accumulate being at the helm. Of course they do so for sound commercial reasons and to make a profit on their not inconsiderable outlay. I don't have any problem with that at all and still believe that the real issue is what the FIM do for speedway as a whole and with the income they glean not just from BSI/IMG but also licence and inscription fees that swell their coffers.

 

QUITE obviously, Humphrey, the logistical problems and expense of freighting around 300 kilos of freight per rider around the world, let alone 15 riders and 45 mechanics, have proved a major obstacle but the New Zealand GP will show how it can be done and will unquestionably open a few doors in the future.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,971]

The only way that the SGP can grow and prosper - and I do accept and understand that many people in the UK don't see that as being a good thing - is for a company like BSI/IMG with the vision, professionalism, and willingness to speculate to accumulate being at the helm.

 

Whilst I have reservations about the actual vision and professionalism of BSI who to me, only appear good in comparison to the very low standards of the rest of the sport, I don't entirely disagree. The problem though, is even if the SGP disappears off into the sunset sweeping all before it, where does that leave the rest of speedway?

 

I can honestly say that if the future of speedway is a touring individual circus, that will not be speedway as I know it and frankly it might as well be tiddlywinks.

 

Countries showing the GP series in 2012: Australia, Balkans, Bulgaria, China, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, India, Middle East, New Zealand, Poland, Romania, Russia and Baltics, Singapore, Slovakia and Sweden. Also Africa Supersport which includes South Africa and many others. Eurosport and in South America Fox America.

 

Without wishing to appear pedantic, the 'Balkans', 'Baltics' and 'Middle East' are not countries which suggests these are regions that can receive SGP coverage on channels distributed by satellite, but that doesn't indicate how many people might actually be watching. Are there are figures available as how many people watch the SGP in (say) China or South Africa?

 

QUITE obviously, Humphrey, the logistical problems and expense of freighting around 300 kilos of freight per rider around the world, let alone 15 riders and 45 mechanics, have proved a major obstacle but the New Zealand GP will show how it can be done and will unquestionably open a few doors in the future.

 

Yes, but many other relatively minor sports manage to stage WC/GP rounds outside Europe, not to mention MotoGP, Superbikes and even Motocross, so it can't entirely be down to logistical problems.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Humphrey Appleby

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

Whilst I have reservations about the actual vision and professionalism of BSI who to me, only appear good in comparison to the very low standards of the rest of the sport, I don't entirely disagree. The problem though, is even if the SGP disappears off into the sunset sweeping all before it, where does that leave the rest of speedway?

 

I can honestly say that if the future of speedway is a touring individual circus, that will not be speedway as I know it and frankly it might as well be tiddlywinks.

 

 

 

Without wishing to appear pedantic, the 'Balkans', 'Baltics' and 'Middle East' are not countries which suggests these are regions that can receive SGP coverage on channels distributed by satellite, but that doesn't indicate how many people might actually be watching. Are there are figures available as how many people watch the SGP in (say) China or South Africa?

 

 

 

Yes, but many other relatively minor sports manage to stage WC/GP rounds outside Europe, not to mention MotoGP, Superbikes and even Motocross, so it can't entirely be down to logistical problems.

 

BUT speedway, unlike MotoGP, Superbikes and MX, hasn't had the finances to overcome the logistical problems which have been a major obstacle but will be less so in the future.

 

I am quite aware that the Balkans, etc, are not individual countries but, as with F1 in the early days when Eccelstone brilliantly trumped up global viewing figures to enhance the product's potential and perceived value to sponsors, it is not the breakdown that matters in the final analysis, rather the total numbers. And, of course, every little bit of TV income helps.

 

I am afraid you have little or no idea of the workings of BSI or the manner in which they go about their business. I have worked in this industry all my life and they have some very talented people encouraged by a company (IMG) that have very high standards. Your continual carping at them just belittles your own arguments.

 

Unlike you I happen to believe that the stronger the SGP series becomes and the wider its audience either live or on TV the better the prospects for speedway as a whole but it is up to the respective countries to build upon and grasp that success rather than just expect the number of bums on seats to magically increase.

 

I don't ever envisage the day when GP riders will not compete in domestic leagues. That will remain their bread and butter and speedway riders enjoy it. No matter what the financial rewards, 12 meetings a year, or even 15, would hardly satisfy their appetites for actual racing which is, after all, what they love. This is yet another aspect in which speedway is so very different to MotoGP, Superbikes and even F1.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

I FULLY respect your right to view the SGP concept as an aberration and 'not fit for purpose' but that shouldn't colour your judgement about the manner in which BSI conduct their business, the high quality work they produce and the meticulous manner in which they approach and organise the actual staging of each Grand Prix.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,971]

I FULLY respect your right to view the SGP concept as an aberration and 'not fit for purpose' but that shouldn't colour your judgement about the manner in which BSI conduct their business, the high quality work they produce and the meticulous manner in which they approach and organise the actual staging of each Grand Prix.

 

I don't think I've ever suggested the SGP isn't fit for purpose, and have acknowledged the successful aspects of BSI's involvement. It's not entirely my cup of tea, but if evolves into a full-time series that gets people interested in the rest of the sport, that would be fair enough.

 

However, I don't think it's unreasonable to analyse the hype and claims that are made by the SGP and its supporters. When one puts actual facts and figures to the SGP since BSI's involvement, the reality is that it's watched by much the same number of fans and in much the same stadiums (with two obvious exceptions) as the World Championship was 20 years ago. Yes, it's admittedly now shown regularly (semi-)live television which I agree is an improvement, but equally I think that's as much a reflection of the huge growth in cable and satellite television and its need for content (by way of example even grasstrack meetings in fields are on television these days).

 

Okay, there's a reasonable argument that speedway may have declined even further in the public consciousness without the SGP. Equally though, despite have the pick of dates, riders willing to ride for well below market rates, and reasonable television exposure, has the SGP really developed that much in the past 12 years despite the proclaimed talent and ability of IMG/BSI? A company that's BTW lost how many millions recently?

 

I could also go on (again) about the ridiculous arrangements whereby the rest of speedway doesn't benefit financially from its premier event, but that (probably) is not the fault of IMG/BSI.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Humphrey Appleby

[WIE-JA 72]

(by way of example even grasstrack meetings in fields are on television these days).

 

 

Grasstrack was shown more regular on TV back in the '60s than it is now. Apparently even the mighty Beeb would show coverage from certain meetings on prime time Saturdays. The last time the BBC covered it was probably about 1989 or 1990. Now it's only shown sporadically on Motors TV.

[g13webb 4,254]

 

Unlike you I happen to believe that the stronger the SGP series becomes and the wider its audience either live or on TV the better the prospects for speedway as a whole but it is up to the respective countries to build upon and grasp that success rather than just expect the number of bums on seats to magically increase..

 

Reading between them lines , are you saying that this country is not doing all it can to promote speedway , in the same way as other countries.

 

I've always believed we are the worst of marketing our sport.

 

Looking at the BBC sport website, they cover all aspects of sport (48 in total) but not one mention of Speedway.

 

Surely the BSPA should've picked up on that before now and done something about it.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

Reading between them lines , are you saying that this country is not doing all it can to promote speedway , in the same way as other countries. I've always believed we are the worst of marketing our sport. Looking at the BBC sport website, they cover all aspects of sport (48 in total) but not one mention of Speedway. Surely the BSPA should've picked up on that before now and done something about it.

 

EXACTLY!

[Humphrey Appleby 13,971]

Reading between them lines , are you saying that this country is not doing all it can to promote speedway , in the same way as other countries.

 

I don't think anyone would deny that the promotion of British speedway is dreadful, and has been for a long time. To some extent it's a problem of the sport becoming de-capitalised, but when you look at the efforts of the official commercial rights company, it's looks pretty woeful.

 

None of this means that the SGP efforts are great though. I appreciate it's the close season, but a search of the BBC sport website reveals precisely three brief mentions of the SGP in the past couple of years.

[dabbsjoe 149]

Laguta last year struggled at first i was chuffed when he showed what he could do.Kennett probably isnt good anough but he impressed me last year before his ban he is determined.SCB you talk a good game but theyre are loads on here who have great knowledge(Not saying you havent any) but alot of them have because they have physically seen these riders.What have you seen a poor relation of the british league the gp at Cardiff once a year and research on the internet the difference is those people i have said about have watched speedway for years you havent i am afraid.

 

i was impressed with him last year before his ban, but after finding out why he was banned that clouded every score he'd got all season up to the point of him being found out. also think he needs to prove himself in the polish and swedish leagues first before being given a shot in gp's

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

I don't think anyone would deny that the promotion of British speedway is dreadful, and has been for a long time. To some extent it's a problem of the sport becoming de-capitalised, but when you look at the efforts of the official commercial rights company, it's looks pretty woeful.

 

None of this means that the SGP efforts are great though. I appreciate it's the close season, but a search of the BBC sport website reveals precisely three brief mentions of the SGP in the past couple of years.

 

YOU can bring a horse to water ... Just because the BBC show little or nothing about the SGP series doesn't mean they don't receive information.

 

Look at the sgp website. It is superb both in its design and content. Compare that with the BSPA website.

 

You still seem to be suggesting that it is the responsibility of BSI to promote British speedway. It isn't. But I know, from my own experience and knowledge of national newspapers in the UK that - unlike 30 years ago - they have little or no interest in motorcycle racing in general and speedway in particular. Compare that with Poland where if Gollob sneezes it's headline news.

 

Coverage in Denmark has fallen away a little but, rest assured, if a Dane starts winning again they will rapidly come back on board. Sweden isn't anywhere near as bad as the UK.

 

How many local papers outside of Manchester, Swindon and Poole (Bournemouth) show much interest in their local speedway clubs? In 1979 there were 39 members of SWAPA - the Speedway Writers' and Photographers' Association - on a charter aircraft to the World Final in Poland. Journalists like Graham Baker (Daily Mirror), Dave Lanning (Sun), Keir Radnedge (Daily Mail), Peter Oakes (Daily Star) and myself (Daily Express) had to file speedway stories EVERY day.

 

Locally there were the likes of Richard Frost (MEN), Rob Bishop (Birmingham), Tom Johnson (Wolverhampton), Gordon Sampson (Halifax) and many more who had acres of space to fill on a regular basis. Mike Patrick and John Hipkiss supplied photos to a whole host of newspapers. Now? Virtually nothing. No British newspapers send reporters to any GP outside if the UK.

 

Speedway coverage doesn't sell newspapers, pure and simple, and Sports Desks these days are very different in attitude than they were in the 1980s. When I also covered speedway for the News of the World the then Sports Editor (Bill Bateson, a Fleet Street legend) treated speedway no differently to soccer. He judged each story on its merit, even providing a whole page to Gary Havelock's victory at Wroclaw in 1992 even though there was a full programme of league football that day.

Ken Lawrence at the Daily Express was of the same ilk. It's a different ball game (literally) these days.

 

Lack of British success, guest riders, and the general malaise of speedway have all helped contribute to its lack of coverage but the fact remains that these days motorcycle sport simply isn't fashionable. Certainly the BSPA could do more to bang their own drum but it still might be to no avail. And without Sky speedway would disappear off the radar altogether.

 

All of which is why I don't accept that having a SGP at Wembley would automatically attract huge media coverage. It wouldn't.

[dabbsjoe 149]

YOU can bring a horse to water ... Just because the BBC show little or nothing about the SGP series doesn't mean they don't receive information.

 

Look at the sgp website. It is superb both in its design and content. Compare that with the BSPA website.

 

You still seem to be suggesting that it is the responsibility of BSI to promote British speedway. It isn't. But I know, from my own experience and knowledge of national newspapers in the UK that - unlike 30 years ago - they have little or no interest in motorcycle racing in general and speedway in particular. Compare that with Poland where if Gollob sneezes it's headline news.

 

Coverage in Denmark has fallen away a little but, rest assured, if a Dane starts winning again they will rapidly come back on board. Sweden isn't anywhere near as bad as the UK.

 

How many local papers outside of Manchester, Swindon and Poole (Bournemouth) show much interest in their local speedway clubs? In 1979 there were 39 members of SWAPA - the Speedway Writers' and Photographers' Association - on a charter aircraft to the World Final in Poland. Journalists like Graham Baker (Daily Mirror), Dave Lanning (Sun), Keir Radnedge (Daily Mail), Peter Oakes (Daily Star) and myself (Daily Express) had to file speedway stories EVERY day.

 

Locally there were the likes of Richard Frost (MEN), Rob Bishop (Birmingham), Tom Johnson (Wolverhampton), Gordon Sampson (Halifax) and many more who had acres of space to fill on a regular basis. Mike Patrick and John Hipkiss supplied photos to a whole host of newspapers. Now? Virtually nothing. No British newspapers send reporters to any GP outside if the UK.

 

Speedway coverage doesn't sell newspapers, pure and simple, and Sports Desks these days are very different in attitude than they were in the 1980s. When I also covered speedway for the News of the World the then Sports Editor (Bill Bateson, a Fleet Street legend) treated speedway no differently to soccer. He judged each story on its merit, even providing a whole page to Gary Havelock's victory at Wroclaw in 1992 even though there was a full programme of league football that day.

Ken Lawrence at the Daily Express was of the same ilk. It's a different ball game (literally) these days.

 

Lack of British success, guest riders, and the general malaise of speedway have all helped contribute to its lack of coverage but the fact remains that these days motorcycle sport simply isn't fashionable. Certainly the BSPA could do more to bang their own drum but it still might be to no avail. And without Sky speedway would disappear off the radar altogether.

 

All of which is why I don't accept that having a SGP at Wembley would automatically attract huge media coverage. It wouldn't.

 

i can't disagree with anything you've put there. it should be clear for all of us that the problems with Speedway in the UK all lie at the feet of the BSPA. We've seen in the last week that BSI have got themselves a big name sponsor in Monster Energy and from seeing a lot of Monster Energy marketing and promotions over recent years the SGP can only benefit from it.

[The Know 221]

BUT speedway, unlike MotoGP, Superbikes and MX, hasn't had the finances to overcome the logistical problems which have been a major obstacle but will be less so in the future.

 

I am quite aware that the Balkans, etc, are not individual countries but, as with F1 in the early days when Eccelstone brilliantly trumped up global viewing figures to enhance the product's potential and perceived value to sponsors, it is not the breakdown that matters in the final analysis, rather the total numbers. And, of course, every little bit of TV income helps.

 

I am afraid you have little or no idea of the workings of BSI or the manner in which they go about their business. I have worked in this industry all my life and they have some very talented people encouraged by a company (IMG) that have very high standards. Your continual carping at them just belittles your own arguments.

 

Unlike you I happen to believe that the stronger the SGP series becomes and the wider its audience either live or on TV the better the prospects for speedway as a whole but it is up to the respective countries to build upon and grasp that success rather than just expect the number of bums on seats to magically increase.

 

I don't ever envisage the day when GP riders will not compete in domestic leagues. That will remain their bread and butter and speedway riders enjoy it. No matter what the financial rewards, 12 meetings a year, or even 15, would hardly satisfy their appetites for actual racing which is, after all, what they love. This is yet another aspect in which speedway is so very different to MotoGP, Superbikes and even F1.

 

I agree with most of your points here, but ! yes they may have some talented people but they all have a lot of untalented people. During my 8 years with BSI they have cocked up so many times its untrue, the last one being sweden last year yet they still have the cheek to ask about this year Customer service is very very poor.

I remember when i first met Paul in 2003 at our offices. didnt have a clue about what speedway was but the moto for bsi was we always under promise but always over achive. Well i can tell you in all the years they have over promised and under achived.

 

regardless of this i have always stuck up for the bsi but no more after 2011.

[g13webb 4,254]

 

How many local papers outside of Manchester, Swindon and Poole (Bournemouth) show much interest in their local speedway clubs? In 1979 there were 39 members of SWAPA - the Speedway Writers' and Photographers' Association - on a charter aircraft to the World Final in Poland. Journalists like Graham Baker (Daily Mirror), Dave Lanning (Sun), Keir Radnedge (Daily Mail), Peter Oakes (Daily Star) and myself (Daily Express) had to file speedway stories EVERY day.

 

 

Would be interesting to note : How many members are in SWAPA now ???