Stoke Sign Lambert (that's Simon, Not Robert!)

[Derek 613 18]

I don't take an interest in the NL, just riders that i admire in the NL like Jaimie Pickard and Paul Starke, i support Plymouth but would like to see teams with ex riders in them do well, i just think Vasey was a little to quick in getting rid of Jaimie, but knowing the lad he will bounce back, like he always do, i have nothing against Stoke going for the league, but don't let people think you are a development team like Mr Vasey would let you think, then bin a rider who is having a bad spell, and bring in a rider who should not be in that league, when he is dropped by a PL team, having Tony in the team is a very good thing, but will riders like Lambert listen to anything he says, i don't know but he could learn a lot from someone like him.

 

What you are missing is that Simon Lambert has been brought in to replace Richie Worrall not Jaimie. Unfortunately Jaimie has been caught up in this because of the points limit. I do not remember Malcolm saying Stoke are a development team I do remember him saying that Stoke want to win some silverware. There is a development side to the team though in Ben Reade, Liam Carr and Ross Walter to name three of the team all three pointers at the start of the season how many are Stoke supposed to have??? Stoke have now signed Adam Wrathall another youngster what really do you want?

Edited July 11, 2012 by Derek 613

[Skodaman 192]

No it is not. They do not get paid £10 a point and 10p a mile in the Premier League and Elite League. Your absurd post illustrates that National League has lost its way. Simon Lambert is an outstanding rider but to have to drop yet another rider to fit him in is just so wrong. It is a development league and you are deluding yourself if you think there are a large number of riders waiting in the wings. There are not.

 

We are beginning to see the demise of National League speedway.

 

Lambert was dropped by Leicester to make way for a rider to replace Simon Neilsen and Lewis Blackbird in the same was as Pickars was dropped. Simon has struggled a bit at Leicester but he has scored some vital points when needed. He was removed as part of the averages jigsaw!!

[wightlink flyer 12]

Vasey is suppose to be all for developing riders in the NL, well i don't see any going on at Stoke at the minute,

 

Stoke have a 16 year old lad at reserve so that is some developing would you not say?

 

Must admit, I do find the way Stoke have set out their team as s bit strange.

They have 3 x 3 point riders in their team....5 if you count the 2 that have already left.

They therefore do have a choice as to what positions they put them in.

Rhys Naylor was never gonna rack up point in the main body of the team.

I thought he was "taking one" for the team until Ben Reade moved up...but no.

His only "development" was when he was replaced.

Cue Ross Walter....wins the Stoke "day of opportunity"...doesnt get picked for the side...eventually gets a call up when Berwick is dropped / leaves and is now riding in the main body of the team.

 

Whilst all this is going on...Ben Reade is racking up huge points at reserve.

Eventually he will have to move into the main body...but surely, he should have moved long before now.....remember..Stoke do have that choice if they wanted to.

Naylor could have had a stint at reserve, to see if he was up to NL racing...and then possibly 2 riders could have been "developed" instead of just Ben Reade ??

[roguetrader 51]

1) Yes it is. The riders get paid to do a job.

 

2) Of course not. PL and EL are a higher level and the money riders can earn reflects that, just like many a profession. Do Premier League footballers get paid only what a Division 2 player earns?

 

3) In what way?

 

4) No he's not, otherwise he wouldn't have been struggling at PL level and wouldn't have been dropped. He's a very good rider at NL level but has not progressed beyond average PL rider at his best. There's nothing wrong with that - it's his level.

 

5) I suggested a small surplus is no bad thing not that there are a large number waiting the wings.

 

6) Nonsense.

 

One final question. Who should Stoke have signed as a number 1 to replace the unfortunate Richie Worrall?

 

You obviously think you know what you are talking about when in reality you are far from the truth. I cant be arsed to debate your nonsense.

[MrMungo 708]

You obviously think you know what you are talking about when in reality you are far from the truth. I cant be arsed to debate your nonsense.

Do you work for BT's customer service?

 

Adam is still in the declared team and officially Max Clegg is Number 8 but due to injuries he has been in the team alongside tommy fenwick.

If adam came back in then one of these would have to be dropped so can only think Rob and Stuart knowing this is a development season see this as a chance for adam to race a different track and still give all scunnys 3pt riders the rest of the season without having to drop one of them

Fenwick actually isn't in the declared line-up. He's just been in to cover for injuries.

Hart is in the declared side, but hasn't ridden for a while. Are they expecting him to return?

Edited July 11, 2012 by MrMungo

[bullet 72]

Fenwick actually isn't in the declared line-up. He's just been in to cover for injuries.

Hart is in the declared side, but hasn't ridden for a while. Are they expecting him to return?

 

I would expect the redeclared lineup will have Hart removed and both Tommy and Max in the 1-7 with either no number 8 or adam kirby at number 8.

 

all the 3pt riders are improving so would be hard to pick one to drop to bring adam back in so as far as scunny are concerned its as win win loaning him to stoke for the rest of the season

[Roger MARTIN 128]

What you are missing is that Simon Lambert has been brought in to replace Richie Worrall not Jaimie. Unfortunately Jaimie has been caught up in this because of the points limit. I do not remember Malcolm saying Stoke are a development team I do remember him saying that Stoke want to win some silverware. There is a development side to the team though in Ben Reade, Liam Carr and Ross Walter to name three of the team all three pointers at the start of the season how many are Stoke supposed to have??? Stoke have now signed Adam Wrathall another youngster what really do you want?

 

You are a Malcolm Vasey fan going by your post, good on you, no Mr Vasey never said that Stoke were a Development side, but was critical of teams like Plymouth for not Developing there team, and i agree with him about that, because by having a very top heavy side, Plymouth were never going to win against the more balanced sides in the league, so your telling me that if Jaimie was doing well he would not have dropped him, but it was just that because of the points limit the lad was unlucky to get dropped, the only reason riders like Liam Carr Ross Walter are in the side is because the team were so top heavy, that's all he could sign that would fit in, he is in the same situation has all stand alone teams, they need to win things to keep the supporters happy, he was one of the biggest supporters of bringing the point limit down to stop other teams having big average riders in the league so it was used more like a Development league, so what does he do, bring in some of the biggest average riders in the league, this is just an opinion, like yours.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Devildodger

[Derek 613 18]

Stoke's team has been ratified by the BSPA which has to be good news for Stoke supporters

[norwichkev 66]

Stoke's team has been ratified by the BSPA which has to be good news for Stoke supporters

Never likely to be a problem, Malcolm is very cute on the laws of the sport and has been helped considerably by the freakish weather this year.

 

Great move for Stoke and will be good to see Simon back at Mildy, don't think he was a failure at Leicester at all, leaving on a 5.22 average.

 

Overall it serves to highlight some stupids that have been highlighted on this forum that should have been sorted many years ago

 

Only thing I can't work out is how, and I am sure there are plenty out there who know far more than I do, if a PL rider comes in on a double up average how he is not on a 10.44 ave? I heard some nonsense that apparently 2012 PL averages don't count - surely even Speedway cannot have such a daft ruling as that average reflects current form better than anything else.

 

Not just applying to Stoke, but the unfortunate part of the way things work is that Jamie is now marooned on a high average due to 1 meeting short while halfway through a season due to 1 meeting too few - not sure how this is good for young Brits or for Jamie.

 

Ben Reade still at reserve and getting 7 rides each week........ we have had the luxury before as have Buxton and many others but it doesn,t make it right. Well done to Ben after being shafted at the back end of last year has come back well and getting excellent results this season. Total nonsense how this is allowed to happen, and those at the top table including Mr.Vasey deserve to be shot on this stupid alone. Forget the hand wringing "not me guv, it's them others" time for promoters to get their act together - none of it is rocket science - maybe the league should provide free back scratchers from e-bay to cut out the current need.

 

Kev

Edited July 13, 2012 by norwichkev

[greyhoundp 990]

Yes, when people congratulate Stoke on "Developing" Ben Reade it is often forgotten that late last season he was cast aside for Tim Nobes, also i would agree Jamie Pickard has been shafted in that he is 1 meeting short of a new lower average, nothing new in that i dont suppose, but i thought Jamie served you well enough to have deserved a little bit better than that.

 

I am not aiming at riders here, more at managements way to treat people <riders>, yes i realise Stoke,Mildenhall,IOW, Buxton need to be winning to retain there crowd levels, but one more away meeting for jamie to get a new lower average, was that TO much to ask, and the least he deserved ?. In a way i hope this comes back to bite you.

 

Lambert for Worall, is pretty much like for like, though on current form Richie would likely out perform Lambert, in the NL they appear evenly matched, Wrathall for Pickard again experience wise like for like, but points wise i would have Jamie over Adam every day, and It appears to be a Top end consolidation for a mid Team loss. any way, we will see next weekend, weather permitting when we visit you.

Edited July 13, 2012 by greyhoundp

[montie 1,273]

Yes, when people congratulate Stoke on "Developing" Ben Reade it is often forgotten that late last season he was cast aside for Tim Nobes,

I

 

But to be fair he had done nothing all season so giving another 3 pointer a go was no drama really,they had nothing to loose

[Roger MARTIN 128]

This a report in the local Plymouth paper today.

 

 

A PREMIER League debut for rising Plymouth Devils star Ben Reade has been put on hold after heavy rain washed out tonight's meeting at the St Boniface Arena.

Devils, with Reade lined-up at reserve in place of the injured Nicki Glanz, were due to face current champions Glasgow Tigers.

Devils chairman Mike Bowden decided yesterday to postpone the Premier League clash because of continuing heavy rain.

But Bowden, who is also the Devils' promoter, made it clear Reade's chance had not gone because the match had been postponed.

Bowden said Reade, who had a heart operation which put him out of speedway for a year, is part of his long-term plans.

The Devils chairman is also on the verge of signing another rider, as well as bringing Reade back on the scene.

Reade, 22, is a Plymouth asset, or 'property' and has been loaned out to National League side Stoke.

He made his debut for Devils in the National League a year after undergoing a heart operation to correct a potentially life-threatening condition.

Reade, a raw talent who had, however, no Premier League experience, was then sidelined by an ankle injury and was eventually loaned out to Stoke.

Bowden said Reade had improved in leaps and bounds since then.

He said: "Ben scored 17 points for Stoke in his last meeting and he's getting a lot of points for them.

"He's still an asset for us and although his debut for our Premier League team will be delayed by the postponement of tonight's meeting, he will feature again for us this year.

"I know it's quite a jump from the National League to the Premier, but there's little point in having someone like Ben as an asset and not giving him a chance.

"He's a good rider and he's a good character and, importantly, he wants to do well. He's improved an awful lot since he first joined us."

Bowden's signalled intention to change his line-up reflects his growing frustration over Devils' inability to win points away from home.

He has also been less than happy about some of his riders' application when the club's top performers, captain Ben Barker and Ryan Fisher, have been unavailable.

Bowden declined to name the mystery rider waiting in the wings 'until he signs along the dotted line', but the new face could be a member of the Devils' squad by early next week.

Bowden said he had shelved tonight's meeting because there was no guarantee St Boniface Arena would be fit for purpose.

The Plymouth chairman has been caught out previously when he attempted to put a meeting on only to have it called off by referees.

In those circumstances, Devils have to fork out up to £2,000 in costs, including their opponents' travelling expenses.

Bowden, quite rightly, believes that would hurt the club as there has been little income for the Devils because of rained-off home meetings.

"At the moment, we can't take having to pay out a few thousand pounds," said Bowden.

"I felt it best for all concerned, including Glasgow, who have to come a long way, to postpone the meeting as early as possible.

"The meeting will be put on again on a different day."

A new date will have to be found for the re-arranged meeting, along with a league match against Newcastle that was postponed on June 16.

The next meeting at the St Boniface Arena will be a Premier League match against Rye House next Friday.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Devildodger

[Derek 613 18]

Never likely to be a problem, Malcolm is very cute on the laws of the sport and has been helped considerably by the freakish weather this year.

 

Great move for Stoke and will be good to see Simon back at Mildy, don't think he was a failure at Leicester at all, leaving on a 5.22 average.

 

Overall it serves to highlight some stupids that have been highlighted on this forum that should have been sorted many years ago

 

Only thing I can't work out is how, and I am sure there are plenty out there who know far more than I do, if a PL rider comes in on a double up average how he is not on a 10.44 ave? I heard some nonsense that apparently 2012 PL averages don't count - surely even Speedway cannot have such a daft ruling as that average reflects current form better than anything else.

 

Not just applying to Stoke, but the unfortunate part of the way things work is that Jamie is now marooned on a high average due to 1 meeting short while halfway through a season due to 1 meeting too few - not sure how this is good for young Brits or for Jamie.

 

Ben Reade still at reserve and getting 7 rides each week........ we have had the luxury before as have Buxton and many others but it doesn,t make it right. Well done to Ben after being shafted at the back end of last year has come back well and getting excellent results this season. Total nonsense how this is allowed to happen, and those at the top table including Mr.Vasey deserve to be shot on this stupid alone. Forget the hand wringing "not me guv, it's them others" time for promoters to get their act together - none of it is rocket science - maybe the league should provide free back scratchers from e-bay to cut out the current need.

 

Kev

 

With regard to Simon Lambert:

 

Reg: 17.2.2 When riders transfer between two leagues and when a conversion is necessary (in this case) PL to NL you divide by 0.6 which would leave Simon on an 8.70 average so we therefore have to go for Simon's previous average of 9.46 which is the higher average.

 

Hope this clears this up.

[builderbob 44]

shafted by the promotion for one match, feel sorry for jamie, promoters dont give a stuff for riders, hes not the first and wont be the last to have this done, but hopefully this is only the national league, so will probably not hinder him too much and should get a team place in the not to distant future.

i have known riders in the higher leagues where this has totally stoped there progress and career

[norwichkev 66]

shafted by the promotion for one match, feel sorry for jamie, promoters dont give a stuff for riders, hes not the first and wont be the last to have this done, but hopefully this is only the national league, so will probably not hinder him too much and should get a team place in the not to distant future.

i have known riders in the higher leagues where this has totally stoped there progress and career

Spot on Bob although is two sides to this.

 

From Malcolm & Stoke supporters point of view absolutely the right decision for the team - from the riders point of view is a kick in the teeth.

 

Difficult to get a way around that could not be manipulated - maybe if there was an understrength team ( this year Buxton but most have been there ) perhaps a case for "in the best interests of Speedway" a rider in this predicament could get another place on his current average - if only you could rely on people not to abuse it.

 

In my opinion why not include the NLKOC ( and ride all early season ) in the 3 Home and Away to get the first averages? Struggling riders would at least get the opportunity to get some form back early doors.

 

Cheers Derek613 for the info on averages.

 

Kev