moxey63 1,785 Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) At a time when people are relying on foodbanks, living on the streets and losing their jobs... why must people argue about trivial things? Edited November 22, 2013 by moxey63 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted November 25, 2013 Is there anymore more stupid a thing than this so-called 'history' site on proboards completely ignoring the third tier racing record of riders? Hmm, yes but the point is that there is this website purporting to be a definitive record of Speedway riders' records in the British leagues but actually deliberately supresses info. on whole sections of riders' careers... And the reason? The completely ridiculous, bigotted views of one individual who , completely laughably, believes the third division to be 'junior racing'... Stll at least it's been admitted now... is there a name for your condition, and perhaps more importantly, is there a cure? Are you going to put these missing stats together yourself, or just hinge that others haven't done it...? Anyone interested in speedway stats - and, let's be honest, every serious fan should be - then I can tell you with utter glee that I am about to update my British Speedway Leagues Book 1991-13, which I last bothered with after the 2009 season. Anyone who hasn't had a copy in their grubs in the past should get a move on... it is intended as a follow on Peter Oakes' 1965-90 book and contains all the same stuff - averages, results, tables. i do find it baffling that this task is left to enthusiasts, rather than "the establishment." Great that there are at least some people out there who do this. Does anyone know where a copy of the peter oakes book can be obtained for a resonable price? and, and this is not a dig at the proboards site hich is excellent, but does anyone know of a site which list the averages by season for riders in BL matches only (rather than all competitive matches). And a question for Frigbo: Is there a way that your databse could be configured so that all the averages for a particular season could be viewed, rather than by individual rider? (e.g. display 1982, and it ould show all averages for all riders for that season). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Puma23 27 Posted November 25, 2013 Alternative: http://www.historyspeedway.nstrefa.pl/zawodnik.php?imie=Steve&nazwisko=Boxall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2013 I can't agree.. They are deliberately leaving out third tier appearances - literally no mention of them. Simple question, why do that? When I first discovered this site I clicked on the name of a third tier rider who never rode outside the old Conference League. According to the History Site he does not presumably exist? But for many riders the info. is totally flawed as it misses out their third tier appearances. Malcolm Vasey has detailed all such records in painstaking detail so via his books a simple process to update. I still believe the omission must be deliberate rather than simply saying it's too difficult to get hold of.. A spot on comment. I update the rider element of that site. I haven't included the third tier because in my view it is the equivalent of junior racing and is of no interest to me. Similar to Parsloes' insult in many ways. So the choice is merely because you do not recognise the third tier as "real" speedway? Hmm, yes but the point is that there is this website purporting to be a definitive record of Speedway riders' records in the British leagues but actually deliberately supresses info. on whole sections of riders' careers... And the reason? The completely ridiculous, bigotted views of one individual who , completely laughably, believes the third division to be 'junior racing'... Stll at least it's been admitted now... How well P1928 summarises this rather ridiculous situation of the website ignoring years of Conference League and present-day National League speedway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyJ 95 Posted November 25, 2013 When I first discovered this site I clicked on the name of a third tier rider who never rode outside the old Conference League. According to the History Site he does not presumably exist? A spot on comment. So the choice is merely because you do not recognise the third tier as "real" speedway? How well P1928 summarises this rather ridiculous situation of the website ignoring years of Conference League and present-day National League speedway. Surely it is THEIR choice as to what information they decide to spend time inputting?! If it is insufficient there is always the option of either not looking at it or putting your own money, time and effort towards devising a more complete picture. If those behind the site hadn't decided to donate their time towards the project, the only way to view such information would be via buying a book or painstakingly researching it yourself. Maybe some would indeed like to see Conference League information added but this clearly takes additional time and effort to collate. Are you offering to do this for them? So many people expect/demand things for free without considering the time and effort that somebody else spends to deliver it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bryn 413 Posted November 25, 2013 Hmm, yes but the point is that there is this website purporting to be a definitive record of Speedway riders' records in the British leagues but actually deliberately supresses info. on whole sections of riders' careers... And the reason? The completely ridiculous, bigotted views of one individual who , completely laughably, believes the third division to be 'junior racing'... Stll at least it's been admitted now... Are you going to do as I suggested then Parsnips old fruit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2013 Surely it is THEIR choice as to what information they decide to spend time inputting?! If it is insufficient there is always the option of either not looking at it or putting your own money, time and effort towards devising a more complete picture. If those behind the site hadn't decided to donate their time towards the project, the only way to view such information would be via buying a book or painstakingly researching it yourself. Maybe some would indeed like to see Conference League information added but this clearly takes additional time and effort to collate. Are you offering to do this for them? So many people expect/demand things for free without considering the time and effort that somebody else spends to deliver it. I don't agree. The site is SUPPOSED to be comprehensive. It is not so far as speedway's Third Tier is concerned. Overall it also only covers certain years of the sport. It was set up to attract people to look at it surely, not for viewers who detect failings that to be vilified when they draw attention to its failing points. Or told to creating a website of their own!± I have every right to look at it and debate what it is there. Websites are created to attract people to view them. If this History Site is not there for that purpose one must wonder why it was created in the first place? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyJ 95 Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) I don't agree. The site is SUPPOSED to be comprehensive. It is not so far as speedway's Third Tier is concerned. Overall it also only covers certain years of the sport. It was set up to attract people to look at it surely, not for viewers who detect failings that to be vilified when they draw attention to its failing points. Or told to creating a website of their own!± I have every right to look at it and debate what it is there. Websites are created to attract people to view them. If this History Site is not there for that purpose one must wonder why it was created in the first place? Where does it say that it is supposed to be comprehensive? http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/2931/introduction It would be reasonable to comment or ask along the lines of; "it's a shame it doesn't also include Conference League", "do you have any plans to add Conference League?" or "would you like me to collate the Conference League data and contribute to your site?" but criticism is surely unwarranted. It is quite clear that the site, as it stands right now, is an extremely useful resource even if it isn't a complete picture. I'd suggest that any vilification is a direct result of the critical nature of yours/Parsloes posts and unreasonable expectations/demands you (appear to) have for other peoples free time. Edited November 25, 2013 by Tkdandy 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) Where does it say that it is supposed to be comprehensive? http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/2931/introduction It would be reasonable to comment or ask along the lines of; "it's a shame it doesn't also include Conference League", "do you have any plans to add Conference League?" or "would you like me to collate the Conference League data and contribute to your site?" but criticism is surely unwarranted. It is quite clear that the site, as it stands right now, is an extremely useful resource even if it isn't a complete picture. I'd suggest that any vilification is a direct result of the critical nature of yours/Parsloes posts and unreasonable expectations/demands you (appear to) have for other peoples free time. The website ignores the fact that riders also rode in the Third Tier. If the Link works, here's a prime example: http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/3142 No details of the fact that one of his clubs/leagues involved the Conference League which I am certain that he was! Edited November 26, 2013 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frigbo 518 Posted November 25, 2013 Looks like some people have way too much time on their hands. The site clearly states it's scope but some still seem surprised and alarmed. I've no interest in the third tier and do not count it as anything more than junior racing. That's my view and stance. It 's not going to change because a couple of people see fit to whinge about something they don't have to look at. Easy to whine about something that has cost them no effort or time. With regards to the database queries. Unfortunately my db skills would fit onto a postage stamp. More than happy for someone with the required knowledge to help exploit the usability of the data if they wish. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) Looks like some people have way too much time on their hands. The site clearly states it's scope but some still seem surprised and alarmed. I've no interest in the third tier and do not count it as anything more than junior racing. Then why does Speedway Star give so much coverage - over many years, previously to the Conference League - and now to the National League with full match reports and news slots for the various clubs involved. It also covers the junior leagues - there are several of them - to a much lesser degree. What further credibility to your vision of what constitutes junior racing with full scale National action in main sream venues venues like Coventry, King's Lynn, Central Park (Sittingbourne), Buxton, IoW, Wolverhampton and Stoke. These matches are far from being junior racing run over just a few heats following a senior speedway match. Edited November 25, 2013 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) I've no interest in the third tier and do not count it as anything more than junior racing. But frankly your bigotted opinion on this is just plain wrong. Not just the World Champ but ALL members of the last GB World Cup squad rode earlier in the career in the third tier. By leaving out that fact the site organisers completely devalue the allegedly 'hard work' they've done putting together what is, as a result, a completely flawed data-base. And no point others, who for some reason want be apologists for such a shoddy piece of work, saying, 'well you do the hard work and add the third tier data then', because the site organisers are making it 100% clear on here they don't want it. And we thought 'Revisionists' only existed in the old Soviet Union, eh..! Edited November 25, 2013 by Parsloes 1928 nearly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2013 No Conference League or National League, but a similar league - the late 1950s Southern Area League - is? I just looked up an old friend Vic Ridgeon who rode SAL from 1954-57. The History Site gives this info on him (and I wonder if more SAL riders are included?): Vic RidgeonBorn:06.12.1928, London, EnglandDied:12.05.2009British Clubs:Yarmouth (1950-1953)Rye House (1954-1957)Wolverhampton (1961, 1962)Rayleigh (1963)Sunderland (1964)Glasgow (1964)Exeter (1966) Year..Clubs..Meetings..Rides..Points..Bonus..Average..Maxima1966..Exeter..4..11..3..0..1.09Read more: http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/2470#ixzz2lhVIsHRg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frigbo 518 Posted November 25, 2013 This is great fun. I dread to think what the reaction would be if something important happens!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) This is great fun. I dread to think what the reaction would be if something important happens!! Like maybe recognising the importance of the Third Tier? Edited November 26, 2013 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
