The Future Of The Elite League

[Skidder1]

I could understand criticism of the BSPA if everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet.This topic is less than 2 pages long and already we have had,Get the best riders back,ditch the best riders,go to a set race night,use 2 race nights,Go for 1 big league,go for 2 leagues,have promotion and relegation,promotion and relegation wont work,keep the draft,ditch the draft,bring back the KO cup,don't bring back the KO cup,stop doubling up,get rid of the tactical ride etc.You ask 10 people what they want they come up with 10 different answers ! Unless we can all agree on a way forward doesn't seem much point lambasting the BSPA for not implementing the personal wishes of 20 separate posters.

Good post. And we wonder why promoters can't agree either??!

[macinter]

It is difficult to see how promotion and relegation will work. For a start if Edinburgh win the PL they will not want to move up to the EL whilst Glasgow remain in the Premier. It will mean goodbye to their most attractive league meetings, a stone cold financial fact which cannot be disputed. Regional speedway seems a much more healthy proposition.

[25yearfan]

Birminghams problems this season were more to do with inept owners rather than the Elite League itself. Birmingham with its high rental and not huge hardcore support will always be highly vunerable in the hands of incapable owners regardless of the League they are in!

 

The EL hasn't been truly that since the first two years of its inception!

 

It should be 6 man teams mainly filled by the cream of World speedway and should only be once at home and once away!

 

Its no coincidence that the better attended Swedish and Polish Leagues run half the fixtures we do over here. People get tired of seeing the same old teams over and over, many others can't afford to go most of the meetings so this results in many potential customers picking and choosing.

 

We only need one home meeting a fortnight just like the much more popular football has been for years. Less fixtures would mean the season could start later in April cause afterall speedways a summer sport and many people don't go when its too cold.

 

I don't think one set day for EL matches would work in this Country cause most teams don't own there stadium and midweek fixtures don't attract the crowds like Fridays and Saturdays. Note that Belle Vue intend to move to Friday nights when/if they get there new stadium. Less fixtures would enable British speedway to maintain its current multi night meetings!

 

Teams complaining about a lack of home fixtures could also run teams in the NL, King's Lynn and Coventry already do while Belle Vue intend to in their new stadium and Lakeside are considering it. Wolves at Monmore Green are different in that they share there track with Cradley who could realistically also sustain EL racing there. Other tracks like Eastbourne and Birmingham who struggle with crowds would probably be happy with a less congested fixture list and wouldn't be interested in the NL.

 

Test matches against the likes of Poland, Australia, Denmark and Sweden could be restarted on EL tracks to give them more fixtures.

 

Individuals and most shared events could also be staged on EL tracks to give them more home fixtures.

 

Teams from Poland, Denmark and Sweden could come over at the start of the season to ride challenge matches at EL tracks. Look at the huge crowd at King's Lynn at the start of the season to watch the Polish team. Challenge matches against teams you will be facing in the League aren't very apetising.

 

The 6 man teams should be filled by the Worlds Elite and British riders. The 2 reserves will be British only, the requirement being a PL average of 6+whos never averaged over 6 in the EL before. One other British doubling up rider could ride in the main body of the team but would require a PL average of 8 or over in the PL. No foriegners could double up. (A similar fast track system to that used in this seasons EL could be implemented in the more suitable PL with the requirement being a NL average of 6+.)

 

A better run less congested EL would attract more fans, sponsors and more interest from SKY and other TV companies. More finance would enable the League to be truly Elite attracting the worlds best riders and would enable test matches to be viable again and would enable the clubs to run National teams and put more into training young British riders.

It is difficult to see how promotion and relegation will work. For a start if Edinburgh win the PL they will not want to move up to the EL whilst Glasgow remain in the Premier. It will mean goodbye to their most attractive league meetings, a stone cold financial fact which cannot be disputed. Regional speedway seems a much more healthy proposition.

 

Very true but I look forward to the visit of the Northern tracks to Ipswich more than what I do the more local teams cause you know you'll probably only see them once a season.

 

I also enjoyed the one big League set up of 1995-96 but many of the former 2nd Division teams didn't!

 

Like another poster indicates, it easy to say the BSPA don't do this and don't do that but as we've seen on this thread everyone has their own ideas and I firmly believe that while British speedway can be more sustainable than it currently it, it will always be vunerable and that has nearly always been the case since I first went in the 1950's!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2014 by 25yearfan

[orion]

Good post 25 year old fan ..but yet again got to pick you up on the name of the league ...El has the name because it's the strongest league in the uk and the top division and that has never changed . Leagues in all sports around the world have names that tell you that is the top league but that does not mean that they have to have the top players riders etc in it .

 

I am sure in Ice Hockey have a El league in the uk but doubt very much it's full of world greats . it's always amazed me why people have a problem with the name of the El that make some sense but never have a problem with the Pl name that makes none at all .

[Stephen7]

In my previous post I raised two questions, one has been touched on but nobody has commented on my second question, and I would be interested to know the answer. My second question was............

 

"Secondly the subject brought to the fore with Ty's comments about a single night for all teams to race. I don't have a problem with that in principle, but with the sport being so subject to weather I am wondering how this would work as the season moved on. In football we talk about teams having a game in hand, and sometime even two games in hand, but in Speedway this can be a great deal more. At the moment there is a gap of five games between some teams, and in the Premier league there is a gap of eleven races in one case, and we are talking about a year where the weather has been reasonably kind.

 

Surely as the season moves towards the second half the calendar is going to become packed and other nights will have to be raced to catch up. I notice Belle Vue a week on Monday are having a double meeting, with two races one after the other. I am a Belle Vue fan, and love Speedway, but 30 races in one night is a lot to take especially if we are not on form that particular night, and the fact that I have to travel an hour back home afterwards.

So my second question is how would it work especially if we had a particularly wet season."

[orion]

In my previous post I raised two questions, one has been touched on but nobody has commented on my second question, and I would be interested to know the answer. My second question was............

 

"Secondly the subject brought to the fore with Ty's comments about a single night for all teams to race. I don't have a problem with that in principle, but with the sport being so subject to weather I am wondering how this would work as the season moved on. In football we talk about teams having a game in hand, and sometime even two games in hand, but in Speedway this can be a great deal more. At the moment there is a gap of five games between some teams, and in the Premier league there is a gap of eleven races in one case, and we are talking about a year where the weather has been reasonably kind.

 

Surely as the season moves towards the second half the calendar is going to become packed and other nights will have to be raced to catch up. I notice Belle Vue a week on Monday are having a double meeting, with two races one after the other. I am a Belle Vue fan, and love Speedway, but 30 races in one night is a lot to take especially if we are not on form that particular night, and the fact that I have to travel an hour back home afterwards.

So my second question is how would it work especially if we had a particularly wet season."

I guess the same as Sweden and Poland find a date no matter what the race night is that both of you can agree on and race then . You can have a wet season now and it would still be a case of fitting in the matches

[New Science]

In my previous post I raised two questions, one has been touched on but nobody has commented on my second question, and I would be interested to know the answer. My second question was............

 

"Secondly the subject brought to the fore with Ty's comments about a single night for all teams to race. I don't have a problem with that in principle, but with the sport being so subject to weather I am wondering how this would work as the season moved on. In football we talk about teams having a game in hand, and sometime even two games in hand, but in Speedway this can be a great deal more. At the moment there is a gap of five games between some teams, and in the Premier league there is a gap of eleven races in one case, and we are talking about a year where the weather has been reasonably kind.

 

Surely as the season moves towards the second half the calendar is going to become packed and other nights will have to be raced to catch up. I notice Belle Vue a week on Monday are having a double meeting, with two races one after the other. I am a Belle Vue fan, and love Speedway, but 30 races in one night is a lot to take especially if we are not on form that particular night, and the fact that I have to travel an hour back home afterwards.

So my second question is how would it work especially if we had a particularly wet season."

Another downside of the single night Elite League speedway is that on that night its probable it will clash with a live TV match on the box.History tells us that significantly less people tend to attend when their club is at home on TV. How many more will take the option of watching a top of the table match instead of attending their own track on that same night ? If they do then its stuffed !

[orion]

Another downside of the single night Elite League speedway is that on that night its probable it will clash with a live TV match on the box.History tells us that significantly less people tend to attend when their club is at home on TV. How many more will take the option of watching a top of the table match instead of attending their own track on that same night ? If they do then its stuffed !

Sweden and Poland have live tv matches on at the same time so I guess they would have ask themselves the same question .Thus far they have not changed that format so it can't have caused them that many problems . Would there be a reason why uk fans would be more likely to watch tv rather than go are watched there teams than people in Sweden and Poland ?

[fatface]

One night for UK racing is a pipe dream. What works for Poole wouldn't work for Eastbourne and wouldn't work for Lakeside. Every track shares its facilities with another tennant and have to work around them and what works for their immediate locality. So that's a no go. No promoter in their right mind would switch to a night that doesn't suit them for the percieved greater good.

Most will agree that the costs of running an Elite League club just don't tally with the money coming through the door. So, the options are to saturate it with more top riders and pray to god more people come through the gates to pay for inflated costs. Or, cut our cloth accordingly, go without GP riders and make the league more of a Premier League standard. For me, it's pretty obvious. Clubs that have stepped up from Premier to Elite have seen costs soar and income plummet. The team might cost at least double, but do the crowds double?

I think its time for a bit of reality. Britain is a low fourth on top riders lists now behind the GP, Poland and Sweden. So, let's go without GP riders and create the best product we have with the affordable materials at our disposal.

[moxey63]

For a business that's losing so much money every season and that in itself is putting the future of speedway at risk, surely any savvy boss would want to cut his highest paid workers without shutting down the factory.

 

It makes sense, cutting back the top paid men (they will probably decide it themselves, eventually) to make Britain get back on a sound footing.

 

We cannot survive as we are right now.

 

Another season will arrive next year, and we'll be no better off.

 

Time to start drawing up plans... for the future.. that'll be a lot brighter... without the men who think they are doing us a favour by riding here!

[scribbler]

? just as many clubs in the PL cry about losing money . That is the bit don't understand let's all go Pl it's hardly a winning product . A rosier future is to try bring more fans into the sport not drive them away

The PL run without Sky money. The EL have Sky money and yet still cry about losing money.

[SCB]

Im guessing the top guys issues are not the many race nights but the fact they could be at Wolves on Monday, Sweden Tuesday, Poole Wed, Lynn Thurs, Cov Friday..... Spread the fixture out properly so NO team rides more than 1 away meeting a week. Riders then would get no more than 2 meetings a week. Would suit lesser riders and clubs too as it would aid cash flow too. Cant be good for a reserve to go 6 weeks and ride 2 meetings if they have family to feed. While it can help a promoter to have 10 away meeting in a month with 4 home meetings. The league table will be more accurate then too!

[Ray Stadia]

There is a thread just started in the Elite League section, mentioning how poor the Elite League is this year and suggesting speedway should be run by ex riders rather than 'money men'. But surely, no promoter of any league, especially these days, expects to make a profit! But I can understand them expecting to at least break even, which is not unreasonable. I think speedway needs to lay it's cards on the table, for all remaining tracks and look at all the real costs and see where changes need to be made for the good of everybody. Surely a sensible business plan for all can be achieved. Perhaps speedway promoters need to work as a co-operative?

[orion]

For a business that's losing so much money every season and that in itself is putting the future of speedway at risk, surely any savvy boss would want to cut his highest paid workers without shutting down the factory.

 

It makes sense, cutting back the top paid men (they will probably decide it themselves, eventually) to make Britain get back on a sound footing.

 

We cannot survive as we are right now.

 

Another season will arrive next year, and we'll be no better off.

 

Time to start drawing up plans... for the future.. that'll be a lot brighter... without the men who think they are doing us a favour by riding here!

 

For a business that's losing so much money every season and that in itself is putting the future of speedway at risk, surely any savvy boss would want to cut his highest paid workers without shutting down the factory.

 

It makes sense, cutting back the top paid men (they will probably decide it themselves, eventually) to make Britain get back on a sound footing.

 

We cannot survive as we are right now.

 

Another season will arrive next year, and we'll be no better off.

 

Time to start drawing up plans... for the future.. that'll be a lot brighter... without the men who think they are doing us a favour by riding here!

Getting rid of the best people and crowd pullers makes no sense at all nor do ideas that will mean even less fans ... As I said before the Ward's and Woofies of this world paid for themselves ...a Savy boss would not just at what he pays he would look at what he was getting for his money before he starts to fire people .

 

As I said before there are just as many teams in the Pl who don't have big names who find it hard to survive .

The PL run without Sky money. The EL have Sky money and yet still cry about losing money.

Boro have been in the El with the sky money and cry about losing money and they have been in the Pl with the lower costs and cry about losing money

[stratton]

One night for UK racing is a pipe dream. What works for Poole wouldn't work for Eastbourne and wouldn't work for Lakeside. Every track shares its facilities with another tennant and have to work around them and what works for their immediate locality. So that's a no go. No promoter in their right mind would switch to a night that doesn't suit them for the percieved greater good.

Most will agree that the costs of running an Elite League club just don't tally with the money coming through the door. So, the options are to saturate it with more top riders and pray to god more people come through the gates to pay for inflated costs. Or, cut our cloth accordingly, go without GP riders and make the league more of a Premier League standard. For me, it's pretty obvious. Clubs that have stepped up from Premier to Elite have seen costs soar and income plummet. The team might cost at least double, but do the crowds double?

I think its time for a bit of reality. Britain is a low fourth on top riders lists now behind the GP, Poland and Sweden. So, let's go without GP riders and create the best product we have with the affordable materials at our disposal.

Great post this is the way to go, we cannot afford to pay the likes of Ward anymore as much as we delight in watching him ride.Clubs are struggling and that's even with the sky top up money,so i see no other option to be honest.Speedway can be entertaining without the top boys,and lets be brutal we have not that many riding here anyway.Also if the top boys don't ride who knows it might give a chance to create new stars of the future.!

[orion]

Great post this is the way to go, we cannot afford to pay the likes of Ward anymore as much as we delight in watching him ride.Clubs are struggling and that's even with the sky top up money,so i see no other option to be honest.Speedway can be entertaining without the top boys,and lets be brutal we have not that many riding here anyway.Also if the top boys don't ride who knows it might give a chance to create new stars of the future.!

Poole are having no problems in paying Ward as Wolves have little problem paying Woffy on the other hand can Boro afford to pay the likes of Lewis Blackbird etc ? .

 

As I keep saying plenty of clubs who don't have any top stars who can't make ends meat .Do Glasgow stuggle because they have top stars ?

Edited August 11, 2014 by orion

[stratton]

Poole are having no problems in paying Ward as Wolves have little problem paying Woffy on the other hand can Boro afford to pay the likes of Lewis Blackbird etc ? .As I keep saying plenty of clubs who don't have any top stars who can't make ends meat .Do Glasgow stuggle because they have top stars ?

Well Poole might be riding amongst them selves soon? your points about some PL clubs are right there is struggle at all levels.But most people are saying start again re plan for the future and try and put the clubs back on a even keel .Have the plight of Swindon,Eastbourne,Peterborough,Birmingham not told you there has to be change at EL level and soon.?

[orion]

Well Poole might be riding amongst them selves soon? your points about some PL clubs are right there is struggle at all levels.But most people are saying start again re plan for the future and try and put the clubs back on a even keel .Have the plight of Swindon,Eastbourne,Peterborough,Birmingham not told you there has to be change at EL level and soon.?

Has the plight of Boro Bimingham when they were pl Newport, Glasgow told you anything ? does that mean we have to change the pl ? .. for every club you can find who have had it hard at El level are find you a Pl club who have found it hard ... Ward and Woofy pay for themselves by the extra people they bring to the match . Do you know when Swindon started to find things hard ? The day Leigh Adams left the club, sure Adams got paid well ( when they paid him of course ) but he put 200 -300 on the gate every week so he paid for himself . This train of thought that if we dropped the best riders is somehow going to save the sport by giving us lower crowds is pie in the sky .

[stratton]

Has the plight of Boro Bimingham when they were pl Newport, Glasgow told you anything ? does that mean we have to change the pl ? .. for every club you can find who have had it hard at El level are find you a Pl club who have found it hard ... Ward and Woofy pay for themselves by the extra people they bring to the match . Do you know when Swindon started to find things hard ? The day Leigh Adams left the club, sure Adams got paid well ( when they paid him of course ) but he put 200 -300 on the gate every week so he paid for himself . This train of thought that if we dropped the best riders is somehow going to save the sport by giving us lower crowds is pie in the sky .

I wish you were right but the sums do not add up,also even if we signed Emil the crowds would not go up to the Leigh heyday.You want to know why because alot of people who even go feel short changed the value for money is not there.Forget other clubs the EL has to cut its cloth accordingly and believe me without the sky money clubs would never be able to afford the Wards of this world. Edited August 11, 2014 by sidney

[orion]

I wish you were right but the sums do not add up,also even if we signed Emil the crowds would not go up to the Leigh heyday.You want to know why because alot of people who even go feel short changed the value for money is not there.Forget other clubs the EL has to cut its cloth accordingly and beleive me without the sky money clubs would never be able to afford the Wards of this world.

Any club has to cut it cloth to amount of money it get's in and pays out it matter's not if they are in the El or Pl . There are clubs in both leagues who make money are there club who lose money as I have already pointed out .

 

I am sure Premier League football clubs would not able to make the kind of signings they do now without the tv /sky money so if that went then just like speedway clubs they would have to budget for that