scotchopper

Solution for riders like Rory that want in the PL. Drop the EL for the first half of the season. The attractive 1.4 rate means with his current EL average of 6.22 he could go PL as 8.71 and I can see him getting picked up for that. Then half way through the season or next season he could look to double up, if he maintained his PL average of 8.71 he would go back up as 5.44. Again very attractive to promotions. That is exactly the reason why the rates must be the same in both directions, absolutely bonkers decision not to keep them the same or at least very similar! I actually think doubling up should be encouraged but only allowed for British riders and perhaps only if they have at most 1 foreign league commitment. It helps the upcoming riders looking to progress stage by stage and would also allow the likes of Danny King and Simon Stead to step back down when they can no longer get a ride abroad. The main problem with doubling up/down is conflicts so get the Elite league racing on a fixed race night (Monday or Thursday) then PL teams not allowed to race on that night (sorry Redcar and Sheffield), problem solved. This would reduce the fixtures and encourage more elite riders to race in the elite league as well. I appreciate there are challenges to this but unless they reduce fixtures it will never be elite again.

I would guess t/s were more likely to change a result purely because you only had to be 6 points down. Without the stats to back it up I would guess that the most regular tr produced a 6-3, 8-1s are very rare and when you are 10 points behind a 6-3 doesn't make a significant difference

Not arguing T/S are better or worse, I preferred t/s purely because it meant you got to see better calibre of riders more often. It does cost more and teams still hit 60 against tac sub's. My point that either are ways of making matches closer which is a good thing. it doesn't always work and I agree is artificial and unfair. But life isn't always fair and competitive competition is what we are after.

Of course there will still be teams that hit 60 regardless all I am saying is that it will keep some matches close and close matches provide drama and excitement. It can also produce better racing, when matches are over I am sure some riders go through the motions but if the result of the match is still in doubt they can make the extra effort for an overtake

Of course I would have been gutted if we lost that is the nature of sport. For every winner there is at least one loser. Teams will always find a reason why they lost. Somerset thought heat 15 should be rerun or getting olly Allen injured at the wrong time. Last year Morris taking out Joe tabaka had an impact on the result. As I say there is always a hard luck story but for excitement and drama you will struggle to beat that and I hope a lot of the newbies or returners come back as a result. The Pl have now removed trs for any 2 leg event to stop the scenario you are taking about happening which is probably correct but ordinary league matches matches are better for it. Fair or not close matches are what we are after. No one really enjoys Home teams racking up 60 points every week where the passing is all one way, get some close matches and some last heat deciders.

Whilst the statement that the TR provides extra entertainment is not correct in terms of improving racing it does add something to the excitement of the meeting. The anticipation and drama it can provide does make it more exciting. When are they going to use it? Who do you trust? Surely they are not going to use it against our number 1? Should we switch the reserves to guard against it? In meetings where one team develops a big lead you know that it is not definitely decided until both TRs had been used. Compare that with the KO Cup this year where no TRs were allowed matches were over by heat 8 and some cases earlier. One of the biggest cheers last season was when josh bates a guest reserve beat Jason Doyle on a TR The recent PL Grand final is a perfect example of the drama it can provide. After heat 8 monarchs fans were celebrating after sedgy and deek nullified the first TR with a 4-4. Massive cheer and the thought that we were almost there, ahead on aggregate with only 7 races left. Then heat 11 and the 1-8 turned everything on its head suddenly somerset were favourites. Another 2-4 in ht12 and it was almost mission impossible for the monarchs, somerset only needed 6 points from the last 3 races especially with the monarchs reserves not looking like scoring in ht14. Will never forget the drama and excitement of the next 3 races, it took 3 attempts to run ht13 with morris and masters not giving an inch. Then aaron fox passed starke in ht14 for the vital 3-3 after aspegren got the better of max. Then the tremendous first bend of cookie in ht15 to get sam into 2nd place. Will never see anything like it again. At the end of the day monarchs won the title based on the TRs, we got 6 extra points at Somerset and they got 5 at armadale and we won by 1 point. Sedgy beating nick morris in heat 8 was the deciding factor. But both teams got to use 2 TRs so perfectly fair if you ask me. The TR was a massive factor on the best speedway night in my life and it is an evening i will never forget. I also wouldn't say it cheats for teams who build top heavy, everyone knows the rule exists and you will need to use it at some point over the season and would be part of deciding the type of rider you sign.

The demand is non existent

Just in case you forgot, he is a Premier League Champion right now

i don't know that's why i said I guess, am I wrong? Why people choose to belittle his achievements I don't know, to be the best rider in the league 3 years in a row is a brilliant achievement. Is he world champion, no, but there can only be one of those a year and very few ever get that far. I am glad he got the trophies to go with the performance this season as Scotland1314 says the emotion in his voice after the Somerset match and at the dinner dance shows the passion the man has for racing and for Edinburgh Speedway. Whatever happens: stay in the PL, go abroad, go full time EL or anything else I wish him all the luck ion the world and I hope he gets the opportunities. As he discovered last year I think the biggest problem he has is his EL average. He got a shock when he found out that this average would be used as the basis of his starting average/grade abroad, not reduced or adjusted for the standard of rider in the EL. On this average the calibre of rider he is competing against for team spots is a different league. Doyle already had an average so had a distinct advantage. I would strongly advise anyone starting out in british speedway to make sure they are aware of those rules before getting an EL team and perhaps trying to get a ride abroad first. This has worked well for Max Fricke who is sure to get a few team offers next season and is not nearly as good as cookie (yet).

That's pathetic, the man has been the best rider in the pl for 3 years and you want to slag him off for it. Even if he doesn't achieve anything else i guess it'll be a lot more than you ever do. I for one hope he goes onto more going forward but it has been a pleasure watching him thus far.

Couldn't disagree more Sam has been like a number 1 for the 2nd half of the season. He won the monarchs Facebook rider of the year and whatever team get him next year will be lucky, he has been amazing to watch since he won the Scottish open. He is also a man possessed when chasing, just about took out his own team mates to win the open. Could monarchs use 4 of the top 5 with 3x3 point riders. That top 4 have almost won some meetings single handed when Stevie missed the end of the season against the best in the league. just need one of the 3 pointers to kick on

Maybe in the first year at armadale, it has been a long time since a crowd that size on any more than a one off. Hope a few of the newbies or returnees turn up next season You are probably right there is an argument that the average system is no longer valid and hinders the sport. Good luck getting the promoters to agree to that one

I am not convinced this was ever a bspa event. Not even sure it gets run every year. Might be wrong but King's Lynn vs Edinburgh might have been the first running, I am sure it was just a one off meeting at kings lynn run as a 'grudge revenge' PR match in 2009 to kick off the season. Just a challenge match that was christened the premier shield. Give us a bit of variety to start the season rather than the old spring trophy

no but if speedway racing becomes unaffordable to riders then there won't be any more speedway. If riders were driving around in ferrari's or with massive watches I'd be agreeing with you. Some riders race at a loss, to call them greedy is just wrong. As I say especially in a league where teams cannot be loyal. This is a thread about Edinburgh 2015 and everyone of the team that rode this year deserves the loyalty to be there next season but that is impossible. Deek is retiring and one of the reasons he is retiring is because he can't afford to compete and is running at a loss. Cookie who probably deserves the most loyalty is still the most difficult to fit in, if he wants to ride PL then we probably will have to find a place for him. Would hate to see him race for another team, ideally Monarchs would like to sell him to an EL club and make some money Stevie Worrall who is probably the main reason for the phenomenal start to the season and was the foundation behind our team is proably on an uncomfortable average. I would reccomend him to very team in the league but think it is very unlikely he will be back at edinburgh Sam, Justin and Max are all brilliant propspects who have had great seasons, would have them all back in a second but we can only do that if cookie moves on Ironically Aaron who is the only man who arguably hasn't done enough to keep his place has an attractive average and if the club can get assurances on equipment and preparation has a good chance of being back. I am actually someone who sees the merit in the average system but the victims of the rules are the riders who get mucked about and sometimes left out completely because of them. They would all love to double up and find clubs abroad to improve and get better. 4 of them have moved to the other side of the world to become a speedway rider and yet you call them greedy. Gone are the days when British speedway ruled the waves and could control all the riders, the clubs over here have to realise this and do something drastic to get the level of speedway in this country back up and start producing riders again

The current agreements with other countries speedway don't do the upcoming rider like cookie any favours either. Whilst I am sure there are teams that would like to give him a go his starting average does not help. That is one of the reasons Cookie is stuck in limbo and will probably end up without a foreign club and have to go back to the PL to make ends meet. My understanding is at the moment in Poland, Sweden and Denmark a UK based rider will be given a starting assessed average/grade which is the same as their average in the Elite League. With the calibre of rider in the EL, this average will be very much inflated compared with their peers and said rider will end up competing with far superior riders for team slots. If I was an upcoming rider in the PL I would refuse to go to EL and try to get a ride abroad based on my PL average (not sure how that works). Much more attractive starting average/grade for a foreign club. Maybe once established with the correct average I would consider going EL but not before, even if I was a British rider this has to be the way to go until the EL gets its act together. These greedy riders, hahahahahahahahahaha. You make it sound like they have a cushy number and should give it all up to commit and be a loyal to a club in the UK that will ditch them at the end of the season when their average doesn't fit. Their career is likely to be over by 35 and that is assuming they don't pick up any major injuries. The only riders they get in the EL at the moment are the greedy ones. They are now voting with their feet and not racing in the UK, Kildemand another one gone. What you say about jaded performances are true and riders are realising this and choosing to drop a league. At the moment it is a no brainer you drop the UK. So unless the UK does something drastic it will always be a far inferior league

The answer is quite simple but will never be implemented Main reason that the real elite riders don't race in the UK is that there are too many meetings and it is not on a consistent meeting night The problem with riders doubling up is there are too many clashes between pl and el. There are also too many clashes with riders foreign commitments Answer: Reduce the number of meetings in the elite league and only run on a regular meeting night, i.e. all on Monday or perhaps Thursday. That will solve both problems

Yes with Derek sneddon retiring there is a good chance there will be no Scots racing pl next year. Very disappointing. Agree with paulco and Scotsman forcing two youngster to have to come to Edinburgh or Glasgow will not do rider or club any good. There have been a few that have tried but if you are struggling it is a long journey.

George English did present medals add he did last year. Bspa committee member, just Alex presented the elite league trophy.

Well put gmuncie aspegren had nothing to gain personally by laying down. Of course I only meant meaningless in terms of the result Gazc I sincerely hope Glasgow don't receive any sort of fine for non fulfillment of fixtures as that really helps no one.

Somerset did have an equal chance to win the trophy. That was called ht15(and the other 29 before). The whole point of the awarding rule was to stop riders deliberately stopping races when behind. If the rules were not in place promotions would happily pay any fine for a rider so the only people punished would be the team whose riders were in the lead, grossly unfair. Punishing the fallen rider actually has nothing to do with awarding a race either. There really is 2 factors, is the race still competitive and has enough of the race been completed. Last night cookie had completed 2 laps when the red light went on so that was true. Morris was nowhere near either monarch, if he had been buzzing around master's back tyre then it would have been a rerun. As he wasn't the ref got it spot on. Rule is the same for deciding the play off as it would have been for the meaningless matches at Glasgow today. Absolutely fantastic performance from the monarchs, you just couldn't have scripted that. I have never been so pleased to hear the word awarded in my life. The party in the bar afterwards was great too, roll on the dinner dance next weekend.

2 days to go I can't wait.

Aaron can do as good if not better than Allen at the Dale, no idea about Kennett though that could be a big difference. How does he go there?

Oliver Allen now out as well. I think its Eddie Kennett on Friday and Aaron summers on Saturday. Massive shame we are not getting full strength teams for the big one. I would back the monarchs against any team in this league home and away. Stevie missing puts a massive onus on Max whov gets an extra ride and will have 3 rides with a reserve unless they can change r/r to number 2. Not sure when the team had to be declared but that would be an obvious switch for me.

After the win at Ipswich last Thursday there is only one Pl track monarchs have not won at this season yet. I know it's a massive ask but not something I would put past this team. I'd be happy within 10 points and a clean bill of health for Saturday night. Heard on the tv last night that Morris was on a darcy Ward engine. I assume he'll have that for the weekend as well, could be interesting. Cannae wait to see Sam masters round ota Is it to early to ask about the weather forecast?

Excuses in early I see, the monarchs have a couple of doubts as well. Hopefully both teams as strong as possible. Just hope it is decided my best team on the track and not by a rider being taken out like wee Joe last year.