salty

By the end of the 1965 season according to Peter Foster's history of the Heathens the side were in disarray, with top man Ivor Brown out injured. Re the match you talk about Norbold..."In a match at Dudley Wood against West Ham, Hart(Johnny) again walked out, claiming that conditions were too bad to take part, and the Heathens took another trouncing"

Don't know whether you can count Neilsen as a Wolves World champ, he had left Monmore some 6 years before he won his first title. How long did Siggy ride for Wolves? I always thought of him as an Ipswich man. By the same token I don't know whether we can claim Michanek, as he only rode about half a season.

Cradley v Newport 27th June 1970 Heat 1. Persson,Levai,Simensson,Strachan 68.6 (4-2) Heat 2. Hughes,Erskine,Wakefield,Gardner(fell,inj) 70.8(5-7) Heat 3. Trigg,Stangeland,Brannefors,Squibb 69.2 (8-10) Heat 4. Pratt,Andrew,Wakefield,Erskine 69.8 (12-12) Heat 5. Trigg,Levai,Squibb,Strachan 69.2 (16-14) Heat 6. Persson,Andrew,Hughes,Simensson 70.2 (19-17) Heat 7. Pratt,Brannefors,Stangeland,Wakefield 70.0 (22-20) Heat 8. Simensson,Erskine,Hughes,Wakefield(mf)70.6 (25-23) Heat 9. Trigg,Andrew,Squibb,Hughes 70.0(29-25) Heat 10. Simensson,Persson,Stangeland,Erskine,Brannefors(exc tapes) 70.4 (34-26) Heat 11. Pratt,Levai,Andrew,Wakefield 70.4 (37-29) Heat 12. Persson,Andrew,Squibb,Brannefors 70.4 (41-31) Heat 13. Levai,Stangeland,Pratt,Trigg 70.6 (42-36)

Tony I have tried VSM a couple of times but having first seen the sport in '68, a number of the articles were before my time (albeit very interesting). However, I will be far more likely to subscribe to read about stuff that I can remember the 1st time around so I guess I am pleased to see that shift in emphasis. On the point of Lokeren, I seem to remember 5-1 magazine did a lengthy feature on it a few years back, but it would be a good subject to revisit. As a Cradley fan we were affected through the injuries to Pratty and also the death of Mal Carmichael who had been riding 2nd halves at Dudley Wood, but I can still vividly remember the front cover of the local newspaper (Express & Star) and the page being devoted to the tragedy.

From what I remember there was a competition for local schools to design a race jacket and it just needed to say 'Dukes' and 'Coalite' (then sponsers) on it the rest was imagination The so called cross went after a few years and was replaced by a crown on a ble and red shield sort of design. Thanks jez, glad to know there wasn't any logic involved.

When the Dukes moved to Bradford why did they get rid of the Elephant and have a cross on their race-jackets?

The 8 teams will be?? Oz, Sweden, GB, Denmark, Poland, Czech Rep plus 2 qualifiers.

It's neater this way: 3 from GB, 3 from Australia, 3 from Sweden, 3 from Poland. But there are 4 Danes! Though I guess Hans Andersen did just enough to be given a 2nd chance.

Sure Tom, I'm not saying you're wrong that Ferjan was given a seeding in his 2nd year over riders who merited it more. I just thought I would point out that he originally got in on merit. Personally i don't agree that a rider should get in because his own country is staging a GP, the quality of riders should be more important than their money generating possibilities.

I might be wrong Tom, but i think Matej got in the Gp's originally on merit, by winning the Continental Final. Though after a reasonable first year he had to rely on a sympathetic seeding to see him in for a second year(which was very poor). Can see your logic behind picking Schultze, but it really would not be fair on the fella or one of the top riders who would have to miss out.

My previous posting on this thread was a load of tosh as I was not aware that the plans were for '05 onwards. One thing that does worry me is the doing away with qualifying rounds. Although they are a pain in the neck, it does mean that riders earn their position in the series. With 7 seeded places out of 16 the series will become a bit of a closed shop. Particularly if they use the seedings to ensure a wide range of nationalities are included.

Is the 16 rider thing planned for next year?? If it is then I assume that this years top 10 will join with the 6 who qualified from Poole, which would mean no wild-cards and no seeded riders for 2004???? That means no Loram, no Lukas, no Max, but we do get Jesper B. Or are they thinking ahead to 2005? Seems like cost is the main incentive.

I think if Cegielski were to be fit (big if) he would take the place of Bajerski who faded quite badly towards the end of the season. In fact I would favour Hampel to be picked before him in any case. Hope Mark gets chosen but I do have a nagging feeling that they may only pick one Brit...

I think if the GP format had been in use from say 1984 then Hans Nielsen would have won far more than his 4 titles. With the possible exception of Erik he was the dominant rider in the World up until the Gp's started. I am certain his consistency would have bagged him at least 3 or 4 more titles, particularly in the early 90's. Remember how after not being Champ for 5 years he was the first GP champ in 95 and nearly won again in 96 when he was slightly on the wane. The GP structure would have been made for him.

As ever it will be interesting to see which way Benfield go with their selections. In the 1st year of picking 6 seeds they looked to increase the number of Poles (Pepe, Seb and cegielski?) an extra Swede (Jonsson) and a Norwegian and Slovenian (Rune and Ferjan). This was at the expense of Screeny who had been injured most of the season. Last year I think they plumped for the next 6 in the standings. My guess would be Lukas, Lee, Max for definite with either Hampel or Bajerski (possibly both) and hopefully Loramski getting a spot in front of Hans Andersen. Think Mark as a recent World Champ deserves a slot given that he has been injured most of this year, but am a bit worried that they may not see fit to seed 2 Brits.

Has to be Crumpy, he's been up there for the last couple of years and deserves to see his name on the role of honour.

Would love to see Tomasz win this one. On the "normal" tracks he could still be World Champ. When push comes to shove (for want of a better phrase) I don't know whether he will have the same determination to win as riders such as TR,JC and Nicki.... therefore 1.Crump 2.Tomasz 3.TR 4.Rune(very quick round here I reckon)

Regarding the ruling on bets being carried forward, Ladbrokes rules on this eventuality were that bets would stand for the restaging of the event, but could be voided by request prior to that restaging. (seem to remember that happening when the Grand National was re-run one year.)

Steve As a Cradley supporter who lived in London and went to Plough Lane throughout the 80's I seem to remember the Dons being the first team to win at Dudley Wood for donkeys some time during the 80's. Must have been 1984 I think.

Much as I hate Barratts at least they are in the business of building cheap, badly constructed houses, so I can see the logic of them building on the Wood. But I can't forgive the incompetent/corrupt planning inspector who gave them the go ahead in the first place.(overiding at a stroke all the other previous planning decisions). May he rot.

Frigbo The trouble is that a number of GP riders don't go through the qualifying process. The way the Gp standings are at the moment, riders such as Bajerski, Max,Jonsson,Lyons,Cegielski,Loram and Richardson will be left hoping for a seeding for 2004. Add to these PK and possibly Lukas. If Lukas falls out of the top 10 then Bajerski is most likely to replace him, leaving 6 of the other 7 names above to hope for a seeding(depending on Cegielski's fitness) Who else would you think is worthy of a GP spot? I think of the riders who qualified Pepe is much improved, Kaj deserves his chance, Bo has been unlucky this year in the GP's and his SWC showing was excellent. Think Jesper and Ales may struggle but that is a view coloured by their recent EL struggles.

Totally agree with the above comment. The track last night was pants. After the first bend the only overtaking was up the inside of riders who made mistakes and drifted wide.(Honourable exception was the Russian who swooped round Floppy in Heat 7) Pound to a penny Vojens will be very slick on Saturday as that's the way the Danes like it. Whoever gates will win...

Agree that it isn't too healthy knowing that you may be replaced but from a business point of view I don't think you would get promoters agreeing. If a rider is not doing the biz and the team is losing then the promoter owes it to himself and his patrons to try and do something about it. Sometimes the moves backfire (witness the changes often made at Belle Vue), but I can't see the promoters agreeing to having their hands tied like that.

Haven't got the stats to back it up but I get the feeling Floppy is a bit more competitive away from Arlington this year. Having said that as someone else said we ain't gonna win the thing so why not give Harris and Steady a go. Given the Americans team troubles we should at least qualify for the run-off, but that might be as far as we get again.