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Everything posted by Humphrey Appleby
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I'm not the least bit interested in seeing it from BSI's perspective. They're a private company who're looking to profit from the SGP any way they can (as they should do from the perspective of their shareholders). A more relevant question for the sport as a whole to ask, is what it's getting out of the SGP, and more particularly, BSI's involvement. Bit of a myth that, although I suppose it depends on your definition of 'huge'. When you break it down though, it's really only Cardiff, Copenhagen and Gothenburg that you might describe as 'huge stadiums' and it's really only the first two of these and the Polish rounds that draw any significant crowds. Most of the venues are distinctly small, and the crowds quite indifferent. That's all right then...
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Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Probably true, especially for the top riders, but it's clearly not sufficient for all the riders in the field. It's hard to imagine anyone turning down an F1 drive, yet here we have the absurd situation of riders not wanting to compete in the supposedly highest level of the sport. The SGP is okay as a product, but not brillant. I personally think it became too stale and predictable at one point, the racing was boring, and the same 16 riders facing each other over-and-over again lacked variety. The past couple of seasons have been better, but individual racing just isn't my thing when it's all said and done. Each to their own of course, but I think it's hard for anyone to seriously argue that the SGP has progressed much in the past 10 years. A handful more rounds (albeit in much the same old places), a couple of showcase stadiums, and the promise of the odd GP in an exotic location is about the lot. Okay, I suppose it's a fair point that it's shown live on television (at least when Sky don't relegate it to the red button), but I suspect that would also have been the case with the old World Championship in this day-and-age. It hasn't come close to being a MotoGP, far less F1-type competition, despite all the hype in the early years. -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
It's not necessarily about being a GP hater per se, but about the way it's run. No-one would dispute that the financial rewards for the old World Championship were poor (at least in more recent times). However, riders were also not expected to race 11-12 rounds or miss lucrative domestic meetings either, and the proceeds of the World Finals went back to the sport. Moreover, more than a decade ago we were told the SGP would raise the sport to a new threshold and herald an era of riders competing full-time at that level. Well I'm afraid one of those predictions is not even close to coming true, and what's been achieved with respect to the other is highly debatable. -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Weren't the silencers a different thing because the riders had already signed contracts for the SGP. This time the riders concerned seemingly haven't, so there's no obligation on their part to ride. Can't see what the FIM hope to gain out of confrontation with the Polish League. A legal action is unlikely to be successfully fought before the start of next season, and it'll bring into question the benefits of the SGP to the Polish League. -
The problem is not a lack of riders, but a lack of riders willing to ride in the SGP. A lot of good or potentially good riders simply never bother to go through the qualifying system, whilst other riders that haven't really been good enough have got in for nationality or marketing reasons. If the SGP paid good money then there wouldn't be this issue.
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Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
I'm suggesting the opposite. Unless the FIM and IMG are willing and able to pay competitive money, then it's the national leagues that should be calling the shots. Quite honestly, I think international speedway should be run a consortium of the professional leagues, whether that's under the FIM umbrella or independently. They should be coordinating fixtures and running or contracting the SGP and SWC for their own benefit. -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
The bottom line though, is that you can't force uncontracted riders to ride for you even if you're the FIM, and certainly not if they're paying less than someone else. If this leads to the current status-quo being called into question, then all the better for it. -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
And what about the reports that the FIM through their member associations is threatening bans for riders who don't accept places in the SGP? -
If Not Darcy Then Who?
Humphrey Appleby replied to PHILIPRISING's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
It's the consequence of paying tuppence and shows the reality of how far 'to the next level' speedway has been taken by the SGP... -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Speedway, whilst drawing decent crowds, is quite a regional thing in Poland. It's probably more akin to rugby league - important to people in the north of England, but of little consequence to anyone else. Polish speedway has the biggest average crowds of any sport in Poland, but its aggregate crowds are much lower than for football. By comparison, the Rugby Six Nations now has the highest average crowds of any sport in the world, but it would be ridiculous to claim it's the most popular sport in the world or even the UK on the basis of 15 matches. Even in terms of media coverage, I'd say basketball gets much more than speedway in Poland. -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
I suspect contrary to the suggestion, the reasons for the ousting of Polish mayors are much more complex than simply losing a GP. However, it really depends on how Polish councils are funded. If they're directly taxpayer funded, then effectively spending someone elses' money is undoubtedly very popular. In the UK though, a significant percentage of council money is raised from local ratepayers, many of whom might be less keen on spending their own money. In general though, the UK media/public is much more paranoid about 'waste' than in some countries, to the extent that it's very hard to persuade the public of the need to speculate to accumulate sometimes. In general though, I don't believe tax/rate-payers should be spending significant money on speedway GPs because they're simply too insignificant to generate a lot of spin-off for their local economies. -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Polish speedway doesn't enjoy as high a profile in Poland as popularly believed. Football and even basketball are probably higher, although it's fair to say that speedway is still more successful in comparison to Britain. It's also true that British speedway has been poorly run for a long time, and has really no-one to blame but itself for the predicament it finds itself in. However, you simply can't replicate what the Poles or Swedes do because their external factors are so different. For example, Sweden is a lightly populated country and local authorities are happy to lease land for tracks at little cost. Poland also has more public support in terms of provision of stadiums and in some case team funding, plus of course Poland has nothing like the same competition in terms of other sports within the country. By contrast, British speedway is largely held in venues that are commercially run, which receive no public subsidy, and are themselves competing with other land uses. The sport itself also has to compete with football, rugby union, rugby league, cricket, quite aside from all the other sports shown on television. The other point is that running a league is completely different to running a Grand Prix series. Running 11-12 meetings a season is a completely different to running several hundred, especially when you have everything in your favour such as choice of dates and riders. British speedway does not have that benefit and never will because it's an entirely different thing. Perhaps you don't care if the SGP is your thing, but in truth the SGP and league racing is complementary. For all the hype, you certainly couldn't have the SGP without the leagues, not least because riders wouldn't be able to afford to do the SGP. Equally it could be argued that SGP is showcase for the leagues, although in my view the benefits have yet to be realised in this direction. -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
It's uncertainly not uncommon for councils or other public authorities to provide some sponsorship of events that will lead to money being spent in local hotels, restaurants and the like. Indeed, the appearance of 'Visit Cymru' on the list of SGP sponsors would suggest the UK taxpayer is contributing to the cost of the Cardiff GP in some way. However, one would hope these bodies have done their sums when it comes to the amount reputedly being paid by Leszno for the privilege of staging their GP... -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Whilst I did have much more interest in the World Championship when it was run on knockout lines with a one-off World Final, I think it's unrealistic to expect that it would revert to that format today. The need for television and sponsorship money is now much more significant now than then, and that needs to have some sort of regular series. Nevertheless, there should be a more equitable distribution of the proceeds from such a series, to riders and to the grassroots of the sport. -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Don't think it works that way. The local organisers pay a staging fee to IMG/BSI for the 'right' to host a GP, but get to keep the gate money and presumably other ancillary income such as refreshments etc. The staging fee is reputedly quite high, so looking at the reported crowd figures for many GPs, it's difficult to see how many host tracks are actually able to turn a profit. However, I think Malilla tends to pretty much sell out, and the local organisers probably have very little in the way of expenses as it's permanent track and Swedish tracks also tend to be leased from local authorities for a peppercorn rent. I'd guess that's why they're able to make a surplus. I could be wrong, but I thought Gothenburg was one of the GPs that IMG/BSI promotes themselves, so the poor crowd numbers and higher expenses are less of an issue. For the smaller GPs, one would think they rely heavily on sponsorship from local authorities and fund-raising to make ends meet. Local authorities are presumably willing to put money up in order to attract tourists who'll spend money in their city, although it's difficult to think the likes of Daugavpils and Krsko would ever develop into masss tourist destinations... -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Yes, but when you reach the peak of a professional sport, you'd generally expect to receive some financial reward for your efforts. It's rare that the rewards at the highest level are significantly less than two or three rungs down. Well IMG are certainly not poorer... -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
No-one is suggesting paying football-type money to speedway riders. Quite clearly you can only pay what the sport can sustain at any given level. I don't however, think it unreasonable for the riders to expect a more equitable share of the profits that IMG and the FIM are making. It's great for Jason Crump if he can find supplemental income from riding in the SGP, but he's a multi World Champion. Most riders are not and never will be, and it would seem they're having to subsidise their participation from league racing. I suppose such as it always was, but the SGP is much bigger commitment than the old World Championship and if it comes to down to making a living for myself or the BSI shareholders, well frankly I know what I'd choose. -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
I don't really think it's comparable to coming-up with the 'next big thing'. Speedway was already well established, crowds weren't as bad as frequently claimed, and the idea of a GP series wasn't anything new. Indeed the GP series was actually in existence for four or five years before BSI got involved. The GP would undoubtedly have happened earlier if the BSPA had been less blinkered, the Poles hadn't been stuck behind the Iron Curtain for years, and if satellite/cable television had been around. Whilst I think Ole Olsen/John Postlethwaite deserve some acknowledgement for actually doing something before anyone else, they didn't do anything particularly clever or innovative, and probably only managed it because of the growing weakness of the BSPA and insularity of the Polish League in that period. Yes, I'd accept there was some financial risk involved in buying into the SGP, but much of the finance seems to have been put-up by Postlethwaite's mates, and the deal with the FIM doesn't appear to have carried massive risk either. With respect to the television and sponsorship deals. I'd have thought that bread-and-butter to any half-competent commercial person who's been around the block. Satellite and cable television was desperate for cheap and easy to produce content around that time, and Sky didn't pay much compared to what they pay for football, cricket and rugby league. I would credit BSI for making their events look a bit more professional compared to other speedway events, but let's be honest, the bar wasn't set very high. And I still remember one GP where BSI's idea of pre-meeting entertainment was some young boy playing an accordian dressed in lederhosen... -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
I'd guess the SVEMO income is derived from the profits made by their hosting of one or both GPs. Very nice for the Swedes if they can make their GP(s) pay, but what the other speedway countries that don't host one? For that matter, how much are the Italians and Croatians benefiting, or the Latvians and Slovenians before them? -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
Completely different to F1 in that the drivers actually make (a very decent) living in the competition, rather than having to race in national series to do so. In addition, whilst the Bernie Ecclestone-run companies take a very sizeable cut of the profits, both the FIA and the teams are still making millions and millions which is quite different to what FIM is getting out of their relationship with IMG. -
Speedway Gp In Tatters !
Humphrey Appleby replied to Midland Red's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
The fundamental difference is that FIFA is 'owned' by the national associations, which are in turn usually usually owned by the local clubs, leagues and associations. Although FIFA is quite clearly a corrupt organisation whose officers undoubtedly have their hands in the till, the point is that the organisation is still run by football for the benefit of football. Millions of pounds still find their way down to grassroots football, which is completely unlike what happens in speedway as far as anyone can determine. Indeed, the ICC Cricket World Cup, IRB Rugby World Cup, and just about every other world cup going are primarily run for the benefit of their sports, not private companies. Yes, it's true that rights to particular events are often sold to private management companies for a guaranteed sum, but that's really not the same thing as the relationship between the FIM and IMG. I'm sorry, but just what are these huge investments? I suppose the air fences and temporary tracks cost a bit, but they're not especially large in the grand scheme of things. The stadiums already exist, and for most of the GPs, the local organisers does much of the work and takes the financial risk. I'd guess there are longer term agreements in place for GPs held like the Millenium Stadium and Parken, but I'd imagine most of the money isn't paid a long way up front for these venues and therefore nothing much is lost if IMG/BSI gets its sums wrong and goes bust. It's a reasonable argument that IMG/BSI have created wealth that the sport didn't have in the first place, but frankly I don't think they do anything so clever that the existing speedway authorities couldn't have done if they'd had any imagination. When you strip out the hype, they've not raised the profile of the sport much above what it was before, crowds are actually not much better than they were in the late-1980s and early-1990s when World Finals were still held in proper stadiums, the sport hasn't really got much beyond the same old countries, and the riders are still paid pretty much the same (low) amounts. The fact that it's apparently seriously being suggested that the sport's premier event could end-up being a series of glorified open meetings because half of the qualified riders can't afford to ride in it anymore, absolutely sums up how far along BSI and IMG have taken the SGP... I don't blame BSI (and later IMG) for seeing a potential business opportunity, nor do I object to them making modest profits on the running of the competition. However, I do think the terms of their deal with the FIM are little short of scandalous and the sport as a whole is being short-changed regardless of its own incompetence. It's hardly any consolation that IMG seem to throw all the profits away on other ill-conceived ideas of theirs, as it's money that could and should be invested back in speedway. The bottom line is though, I'd have much more sympathy for IMG/BSI profit making if they were actually paying the going rate for their performers. If the SGP was turned into a full-time circus as was suggested more than 10 years ago, and the best riders in the world were able to make a proper living on the back of it, then it would be much harder to have objections. -
There are always going to be riders who don't have a chance to win anything, but you need to have (at least) 16 riders in the field. If the choice comes down to earning a reasonable living or trailing around at the back of the GP field for a relative pittance, then I know what I'd choose. I'm not sure that the SGP qualifiers and the SGP series itself are considered the same competition.
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Shows the economic reality of the SGP. If riders have to choose between earning a living or the notional honour of racing in the World Championship, then I suspect most will go down the route of earning money. Both IMG/BSI and riders in the SGP been able to have their cake and eat it up until now, but now tough choice are having to be made. About time too...
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Next Issue Of Classic Speedway - Oct 2011
Humphrey Appleby replied to BigFatDave's topic in Classic Speedway Magazine
Indeed. I stayed overnight in Speedway in April, and it's clear the town grew up around the race track and was named after it. Indianapolis race track was originally built as a proving ground for the emerging motor industry in the area, largely because public roads at that time were so poor. It was originally located some way outside Indianapolis in open countryside, and the area only became built up later. -
If Not Darcy Then Who?
Humphrey Appleby replied to PHILIPRISING's topic in Speedway Grand Prix and Speedway World Cup
And if IMG/BSI were running the SGP as a charity, that would be fair enough. However, they're profiting significantly more than the riders who take the physical risks. How are pay rates different from prize money in the SGP? The prize money is how they get paid, is it not...?