BWitcher

Any others for the at least 1 World Title, 1 BLCR and 11pt average club? Ermolenko did it of course. So we have Barry Briggs Ivan Mauger Ole Olsen Peter Collins Hans Nielsen Sam Ermolenko I'll throw in Jason Crump as well. Pick him as often as you wish, reality tells a different story.

If, but, would have, may have... but DIDN'T. Sam did. That is the end of it. As for the injury, Siggy was my favorite rider then.. but coming back from injury is part of it.. Sam came back from a far worse injury and was even better.. Siggy couldn't do it. Shawn Moran rode in the same period

I have no idea what this 'roll of honour' is you are talking about.. Got a link to it? Again Sidney, Name me riders who have won at least 1 World Title, at least 1 BLRC and at least 1 season of 11+ average. It's IMPOSSIBLE to fluke that. As for Shawn Moran, he rode in pretty much the same era as Ermolenko and didn't get close to his achievements. Only ever managed one 10pt average, only ever reached 3 World Finals. Not an attack on him, he was a very good rider.. just not as good as Ermolenko was, not even close.

As I have told you numerous times, he wasn't in a different league 1991-1993. As for Autrey, Sigalos or Shawn Moran, they didn't get close to anything that Ermolenko achieved. Very very good riders, but Ermolenko was a level above. 'Some' peoples opinions of Ermolenko are very much clouded by how long he raced for and they remember him in his final years more so, forgetting just how good he was in that period. As for top 50.. he would be in it with absolute ease.. but if you insist otherwise, go ahead and name me 50 above him... although based on Autrey, Sigalos and Moran it won't mean much. Sidney, easy question for you. Knock me up a list of riders who have achieved the following.. At least 1 World Title At least 1 BLRC At least 1 11+ averaging season.

Just watched the 86 incident as hadn't seen it in some time.. very 50/50 I would say. Nielsen was lucky in that the referee normally takes the easy option and excludes the guy on the inside, BUT it was clear that Knudsen did lock up and try to turn back on the slow motion replay, he had room to continue on his line... that said, Nielsen was also beginning to drift out.

So, lets get this straight, you've stated that Nielsen was one of the very best ever... but Ermolenko, who for a 3 year spell was as good and could be argued bettered Nielsen, wasn't in that period one of the best? You've defeated your own argument again Sidney.

No, it proves what a hypocritical pillock you are. You had NOTHING bad to say when Middleditch was calling people retards, indeed you defended it.

Yet within 2 years, and only 1 season of racing in Europe he was in a run off for the World Title in 1985.. Thanks for proving my point of how good he was

I haven't at any stage said Lee wasn't very good at his peak. You are the one making the sweeping claims, not me. Overall he may have an edge over Ermolenko, but you claimed Ermolenko was 'never in his league'. The period of 91-93 he most certainly was. What do you mean 1991 please? Did Lee ride or not ride in 1991? The answer is, yes he did.. he was pants.

Look forward to Starman, SteveO, Sidney etc to slaughter Middleditch! Coming from someone who posted "it's basically a bunch of dribbling morons waving their dicks about." with regards to posters on another thread.. you don't exactly add a lot either.

Bless. How did Lee do in the easy era of 1991? Ah yes.. 3.48. Impressive Whereas Ermolenko even in his 50's could beat riders such as Janowski and Darcy Ward. Lee at his best was damn good. Ermolenko at his best was damn good. To say one is much better than the other is madness.

No they don't have to 'grow up'. They simply take their business elsewhere. Besides, even if they did have to 'grow up' they are still not attending anymore.. who loses out? Cook and the sport of speedway do. Stop trying to deflect the issue away from your beloved Jon Cook making an utterly foolish comment. One in which any other sport he would be disciplined for. One that can ONLY do damage to the sport and lose fans.

In 1993 Ermolenko was better than Lee ever was. Period. 11+ average in the nominated rider era. Only ever been done 3 times I believe. He also averaged 10.74 in 1991. Both higher than Lee ever managed in an easier format. This isn't an attack on Lee, he was a brilliant rider, but folk forget just how good Ermolenko was in the 91-93 period, particularly 93. As for your other riders.. behind Penhall yes, the others no chance.

Ermolenko was totally in the same league as Lee. Joint 1st in a World Final when not even racing in Europe.. Takes some doing. And Ermolenko in 1993 put together a better season than Lee ever did. Not only that, he did so after suffering horrific injuries from which it is very rare any rider comes back to perform at such a level.

This is the whole point, he won't. There will quite simply be another batch of folk who abandon the sport altogether. Meanwhile they can continue to pander to the Starmans of the world with whom they know that they can say or do anything and still be revered.

Jon Cook often comes out with some utter rubbish.. but in a way, this is the most accurate thing he has ever said! He's just targetted the wrong fans.

That's what they believe yes... although as we know, slowly but surely the mug punters are walking away. Comments like this from Cook are simply a disgrace. They gain the sport nothing but I can guarantee you some fans will leave the sport as a result.

I would say its probably more to the point why many don't bother with speedway.

So you are happy for Jon Cook to call fans thick and biased?

Where are the posts from those attacking SCB, also attacking Jon Cook? You do get excited when you think someone might get banned. No doubt you'll be let down again. So you're happy with Jon Cook labelling fans as thick/biased?

Jan O was brilliant and on his day one of the most exciting riders ever. However, he was also prone to some inconsistent meetings. Like Jonsson he was mostly outperformed by Ermolenko for the majority of his career. I'd place him above Jonsson but I don't think there is much in it. Both behind Ermolenko. All 3 behind Nielsen. I'd forgotten about the go kart accident and Jan O also missing the 1990 World Final that Per won..

Seeing them more will affect an opinion for sure and no doubt I am biased towards Sam for those reasons. However, at their best Ermolenko was head and shoulders above as well as being more consistent. in the period of 90-93 he rarely made the gate, even in 93 when he averaged 11+ much of it was from the back. Not only that he had an incredible number of bonus pts that year, team riding riders such as Neil Evitts who was way off the pace that year. Basically in every category you can look at Sam outperformed Per... despite the very severe injuries that for most riders would signal their end of their peak abilities. Edited to add:- Found the answer to my earlier question. Sam didn't ride in the 1993 BLRC that Per won. PK rode for Wolves and scored 10. The form he was in that year, Sam would have been red hot favorite for that meeting. So it appears Pers two major titles were only achieved because Sam was out injured

Sam debuted in England at tail end of 83 with a few meets, but first full season was 84.. same as Jonsson so not sure about bites at the cherry.. they both had same opportunities. Sam had a higher average than Jonsson every single season throughout their parallel careers until 1994, the year I alluded to earlier when Sam was coming back from a broken leg suffered at end of 93... 1984 Ermolenko 6.71 Jonsson 6.52 1985 Ermolenko didn't ride (but came 3rd in World Final after run off for title) Jonsson 6.33 1986 Ermolenko 9.72 Jonsson 7.36 1987 Ermolenko 9.86 Jonsson 9.34 1988 Ermolenko 9.40 Jonsson 8.98 1989 Ermolenko 9.85 Jonsson didn't ride in UK 1990 Ermolenko 8.87 (again coming back from major injury) Jonsson 8.39 1991 Ermolenko 10.74 Jonsson didn't ride 1992 Ermolenko 10.25 Jonsson 10.04 1993 Ermolenko 11.12 Jonsson 10.34 1994 Ermolenko 9.83 Jonsson 10.41 I can't agree Sam was a home track specialist. Indeed at Monmore Green, of the Wolves 'legends' I'd place Ronnie Correy, Peter Karlsson, Mikael Max all ahead of him as 'track specalists'. He was brilliant on all shapes and sizes.. from Arena-Essex to Kings Lynn/Bradford. In addition Sam won 3 BLRC/ELRC's to Per's one. I am trying to remember and for the life of me can't if Sam rode in the 1993 BLRC that Per won... not sure if it was before or after Sam's injury? As for Per's World Final win in 1990, Sam of course missed that as didn't recover from his serious injuries in time and the Americans wouldn't seed him through the US Final. At Bradford he would have been a MAJOR threat for the title that year.

Interesting points.. how do you quantify Jonsson being a league above Ermolenko? He was a brilliant rider, no doubt about that but I would say at best he was only on par with Ermolenko. As Rob alluded to earlier, Ermolenko put together one of the best seasons of all time in 1993, achieving a very rare feat of averaging 11+ in the nominated rider era. As for the comments that Nielsen wasn't that good... I'm staggered. Hans was the only rider who as a fan I genuinely 'feared'. i.e. I thought, we've got no chance of beating this guy. He was simply a machine.

For Ermolenko to come back and win a world title after his injuries in 1989 were remarkable enough as it is. You say he didn't do much after that, correct, he didn't really challenge for the title (he got a bronze in the GP) but that was again down to injury. In the penultimate meeting of 1993 he crashed and re-broke his leg. He was never quite the same after that, when he came back he had a different style and wasn't as exciting.