BWitcher

What won't I accept? I've given you the facts. The resounding facts are THEY HAVE brought fans back as there are many, many who long have given up on the sport but their team makes the playoffs and they are there. Some enjoy it so much they return the following year.. only to be driven away by the reasons both I and Humphrey have identified. The rest is just supposition. You're picking out declining crowds and trying to link that with the playoffs.. however, your theory is flawed as crowds were declining prior to that. It's been explained to you numerous times why crowds continue to fall but you steadfastly ignore it. Your question about revenues is irrelevant as all you are proposing is, instead of 4 teams gaining from the playoff crowds, we scrap them and nobody gains. Marvellous! Once you come up with an idea that can replace that lost revenue, then you might have something.. until then, its nonsense. As it happens every team in the Elite League, bar Leicester has been in the playoffs more than once, so all have gained.

Incorrect. Playoffs are not something unique to the sport of speedway, they have been introduced in many sports all over the world, to great success. The playoffs generate the biggest crowds of the season in the sport of speedway. Those are the facts we know.. and they support the playoffs. You can't use declining attendances as an argument against them, as attendances were declining long before the playoffs. Humphreys post above pretty much sums up the main reasons why the sport struggles. Finally.. you've misunderstood me. The top team are NOT unfairly treated by the playoffs. A league system may give a fairer reflection of the best team over a season BUT when the rules are known beforehand, finishing top and losing in the playoffs is not unfair in any way.

Good attempt to hide yourself and you've resisted the temptation to use your old favourite phrases of 'pokc' and 'sycophants'. Welcome back to the forum Drop a Cog. It won't be long before you are forced to re-invent yourself again as everyone sees through your trolling ways. I notice you did slip up though with your post on the EL heat format, accidentally brought up the 'cup' again in reference to the playoffs. Good effort though as I said. Edited to add:- Just in case there is any doubt.. here is the final post made by Drop a Cog 02 October 2015 - 03:36 PM SCB, on 30 Sept 2015 - 10:10 AM, said: So as you can see, after a ban for calling folk morons (which he has done as Fred Flange above) he announced he was leaving the forum.. the date 2nd October 2015. Now, what date did Fred Flange join the forum... oh my! Its 2nd October 2015. Now, one wonders, to quote drop a cog, is he will have 'the balls' to admit it.

There is hardly ever a bad word said about the Morans, they are regarded as heroes, when the reality is they made Darcy look like an angel. Likewise Carter, folk are constantly going on about what a 'great guy' he was and waxing lyrical about his riding. He was a murderer, Nothing more, nothing less, what he did on a bike is irrelevant. As regards the 'lack of characters' it is very often the very same people who bang on about the great characters of the past who are the first to speak out in outrage at a slight indiscretion of a modern day rider.... we're seeing some of those very people on this thread.

Good work Aces, I'll get onto the Aviva Premiership also... http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/31712.php#.Vl7VkbsnyUk#pKdpuqxd4dS1pW7A.97 Ignore that.. especially this part.. "Our clubs have made a huge effort to build their supporter base not only by creating showpiece events to bring new fans to the game but also by working hard to enhance the matchday experience at regular season games. It is clear from these figures that supporters have voted with their feet, it's a great achievement and we're looking forward to a compelling set of Aviva Premiership Rugby semi-finals this weekend." Damn those showpiece events they have created... those pesky things called playoffs. Of course the key also lies in this bit.. "also by working hard to enhance the matchday experience at regular season games" which is what some of us have been saying all along. Speedway has the play-offs, they work. Now it has to work on the second part of the equation as other sports have done.

Not at all.

There is no 'some'. Its only Starman.

Don't try and bring some sense to it Humphrey.. it will fall on deaf ears.

No it doesn't. Do you really have to so childish as to make things up?

So you are saying Matt Ford is a liar as he clearly states otherwise. So there we have it folks. Starman accuses his beloved promoter of being a liar. Who would have thought!

Come on Starman, which is it. You are wrong or your beloved Matt Ford is a liar. At the moment you are calling him a liar.

No, it says WOULD have. Are you now calling Matt Ford a liar? It's either YOU are wrong or Matt Ford is a liar? Which is it?

3 solid heat leaders? Which team are you looking at again?

No, the problem isn't anything to do with 'know-alls'. Being intelligent and having an ability to put forward a coherent argument backed with solid facts is not being a know all. I have been wrong many times and hold my hand up every time and accept it. However I will never state I am wrong when I'm not. You will never here an intelligent person just simply state something is there opinion and hide behind that. They will always back it up with coherent, logical information. An opinion is utterly worthless without that and those who fail to understand that do not belong in intelligent debate. Harsh, but true. Nobody has questioned your opinion that you don't like the playoffs. Nobody has questioned your opinion that a fairer sporting method to decide champions is the team that tops the league. What is questioned is your and others ridiculous assertion that the playoffs are responsible for declining crowds. You've been asked many times to back that up with solid evidence and have been unable to do so.

It is very much Fred Flange who is making some of the other posters on here seem intelligent. Personally I blame 7 man teams.. we had 6 man teams in the Elite League in 1997, since they were scrapped the attendances have fallen. 7 man teams are the reason! That, stupid as it sounds, makes as much sense as blaming the playoffs. The playoffs categorically, 100% have nothing to do with the problems in the sport. It is not even a debate to be had for anyone who understands the slightest bit about business. Fred Flange and the other cohorts would be laughed out of any business meeting as they have nothing to put forward.

Not at all as the point is their averages have either increased or decreased dependant upon the number of meetings as a heat leader.. that is what it all boils down to, the distortion of averages.

But the FA Premier League do it.. You know, that totally comparable sport that has little media coverage, many folk have never heard off, takes place in run down stadiums and has very few sponsors pumping money into the sport.... I'm off to tell the local corner shop he's doing it all wrong and he should open up 100 branches across the country tomorrow cus that's how Continente (big supermarket over here) does it. It's about as comparable.

So you prefer the best riders, to have the best gates all the time. Wow.. exciting racing that would provide! How about everyone gets an equal share of gates... seems perfectly reasonable to me.. then if 'the best' rider has a tougher gate he can show why he is 'the best' by overtaking those lesser souls in front of him. Glad to see Sidney after you arguing against this for page after page on thread after thread you've finally seen the light and agree with what folk like myself, SVB, Waihekeaces have been telling you.

100% spot on.

Well it is the same sport after all so it does make some kind of sense. Whereas you seem insistent on harping on about a totally different sport. Again though, seeing as you keep insisting on mentioning it. Footballs issues were to do with crowd violence and it generally being considered an unsafe place for many folk to attend. That is what they addressed, particularly in the Premier League with the advent of All Seater stadiums. That along with the Sky money being pumped in, the arrival of big name foreign players and the mass marketing saw an upturn. For the lower leagues it was somewhat harder.. however, its interesting what successful venture was brought into those leagues to stimulate seasons, to increase the excitement of the promotion chase to include many more teams.. what could it be.. what is this system you claim football never introduced. Like you keep saying, always back a winner, sadly for you, you're on the wrong horse again. It really would help if you'd educate yourself on topics before you start spouting this nonsense rhetoric.

Correct you can't.. but as you insisted, the point you were trying to make was dismissed... with facts. Not made up speculation, but reality. Now as I have said, football is wildly successful and doesn't need to change its methods. Speedway wasn't.. you may have noticed but fans were deserting the sport in their droves under the old method too, so that made no difference did it? Many other sports have had similar problems, but reinvented themselves, brought in playoffs and are now thriving. Speedway just brought in playoffs.. on their own they can't save the situation. Earlier in the thread are a number of things speedway needs to fix to have success. Indeed, they are issues that are addressed in other countries, where the sport is much more successful (with playoffs).

Anyone who remotely things comparing football to speedway is utterly deluded as I pointed out to you when you first brought it up. Nobody in their right minds would do it. Should football reach a stage where its popularity is beginning to wane, then they too will look for alternative methods... as most other sports have done.. which is the part you can't grasp.

You have been proven wrong, like many on this thread, but instead of acting like an adult continue to act like a child. You've tried to act clever and introduce another sport into the equation, only its backfired on you. Swindons playoff semi crowd was higher than their regular league matches. West Ham's cup semi had only 42% of their average gate. You claim they are a comparison. Reality shows you are wrong.

Another post easily dismissed. West Ham's average attendance was 34,871 last year. The semi attracted 14,900.. about 42% of their usual crowd.. You're claiming the playoff semi attracted around 42% of Swindons normal crowd?

Did I say he was?