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Although further to my last post to muddy the water further technically due to no pl average Lambert should be an assessed 4 pt rider. The only 3 pt assessment is for Commonwealth new to British speedway or those riders on the fast track development scheme. Now if he is classed as a development rider then technically he is the same as say max clegg and classed as never having ridden in a proffesional league (nl is amateur) so then would be a 3!!

As I suspected Nathan is in the declared lineup meaning from Monday the team isn't illegal. In no way should Lambert come in on a 3pt ave. The rules are clear that no rider can double down on an assessed average and when he gets a true average it should be converted the same as every rider you can't just lower it because he is british if you could just break rules like that I think there would have been a lot more clubs chucking money at him to sign. He passed up the chance to be a 3pt pl rider ad soon as he passed up on the draft system to ride in kl main body. If they wanted to lewis Kerr should have gone in the main body and Lambert go in the draft which would have allowed him to ride pl as a 3ptave

I alluded to this earlier. If he is only in as a guest then on Monday your 6 named riders total 40.6 when rose`s average goes up meaning even a 3pt rider would take you over the limit. If greaves is declared then at least it allows you to find the best 3pt rider you can (which may end up as greaves) Surely next month at the lowest his actual EL average would be 3 which would convert to far too much to be a PL 3pt rider!!

I take it Nathan greaves has been named as a 1-7 rider otherwise how can the changes be legal? The 1-7 was rejected with lambert in so unless you add a 3pt rider in declaration it will only be a 6 man team and after Monday would be a 6 man team with less than 3pts left!!

Technically yes it is professional due to payment. In reality even into the premier league it is a part time hobby. How many riders are full time in the NL??? probably none even in the Premier league most the brits probably have a second job to afford speedway and earn a living How many riders in the NL will finish the season making money?? probably none not even those on "higher" points money due to stupid running costs. Professionalism to me is about being prepared to do your job and put the effort in it deserves it does not require "how good you are!" lets look at the conference in football, in there there is a mix of Professional "Rich Clubs" and also "Part time" clubs. Are you saying fans of those "Rich clubs" should not watch them against the part timers after all they are all salaried Pro`s vs a bunch of part timers and should walk the floor with them! what would be interesting would be the views of some of the riders who have faced the stags this season who themselves seem very pleased and happy when they get thier points i dont see many of them saying " got a max today but it doenst count i only beat a bunch of amateur kids!" Thats it from me now time to get to work.................................thats my real job not my part time hobby of professional photographer which i must be as i get money and so does the tax man!!

R/r is the rules for your first injued rider who is not number 1 we have basically not used it with tyler being number 8 then taking all the r/r rides and would have been easier just to have him named in the team but rules are rules!! (plus if we redeclared it would take arron out the team and he would not be allowed back in for next monday when he is hoped to be back)

Thats the problem now its both!! If it was just for fans entertainment there would only be standalone teams so you then wouldnt have a league. Even some standalones are now aligned to a higher team and with the EL draft system those remaining few might. Im surprised belle vue have not aligned with Buxton after they tried to run a second team themselves and pulled the plug Scunthorpe - Scunthorpe and Poole Cradley - (stand alone but some alignment to Wolves whether they want to or not??) Coventry - (Peterborough and Coventry) Mildenhall - Ipswich Kings Lynn - Kings Lynn Kent - Rye house Plymouth - Plymouth Buxton - Stand alone Stoke - Stand alone In the cup there is Leicester - Leicester So only 2 and a half standalone teams Also if you now look nearly all teams there also have a NJL or MDL team which they are aligned to where they do ride for experience and not paid

that £3200 is misleading though as i was trying to point out. Say we had scored more so kings lynn averaged 55 points each meeting (at which point no body would be moaning) that would still cost them £2200. which is only £386 more than £2586 which they are likely to have to pay (taking standard points no bonus points and averaging the 3 scores 71,56 and 67 to get 64.7/meeting which makes 258 over the 4!) So real cost is £386! not a lot and after all they saved a few bob only having to pay £230 out when away at cradley! These costs even out over a season (although kings lynn are unfortunate they have had 3 of these 4 meetings already before many home meetings have been done so initially will be down) As for people saying we will be making money on this Say the crowd is 500 how many are adults which are the only customers who pay the £2 extra say 70% (probably high as there are a lot of U17`s there which would give £700 extra take off the £190 points money leaves £510 Out this £510 you then have Extra medical expenses to cover the second half of the double header Extra referees expenses for the second meeting Riders travel expenses general expenses for the extra time (petrol/trackstaff/electricity) Does not leave a lot if any and thats with oly 19pts at £10 a point Im sure it was quoted before that the stags usually cost around £40-50,000 a year to run (that was for last time the saints ran so might be a bit lower this year) that would take a lot of extra adults at £2 a head to cover over a season

The change will also push Josh to number 1 meaning the rider will be less than 7.19

Well new averages have been released, hows it going to affect your team and performances? For My team scunny it now means Ryan comes into the main body of the team but is replaced by Jorgensen so still a strong reserve. Total is 42.35 so we actually have upto 7.62 to replace anders while out injured but Robs comments yesterday suggest it will make auty number 1 so they are likely to be less than 7.19 What i means for others Berwick - no change (although KUS nearly made it to reserve!) but they now have 0.70 spare if they want to make a change Edinburgh - Fox will now drop to reserve in place of sedgeman which may weaken them slightly but still have stevie there for a while Glasgow - As you were but a whole point to play with Ipswich - As you wer and no real room for changes Newcastle - Robbo replace lindgren at number 1 (newcastle fans will be happy now!) other than that no change but 0.3 spare Peterborough - No change and despite fisher dropping nearly 1.3 from his average they are still at 43pts! Plymouth - Super reserve kalle swaps with benko at reserve so will definitely weaken them. hey have 0.88 spare to strengthen Redcar - no change but no idea on changes. everyone has upped thier average so no room for manuever and dont know about the hall/konopka issue (he is a assessed rider so you cant drop him but then he is only meant to be temporary cover?) Dry as a bone on saturday house - Garrity to reserve. Could be good if he can get going. Due to kennetts large drop they have 2.86 to play with but will silver splash the cash??? Sheffield - Nielsen drops to reserve instead of andre which i think will weaken them. They have 2.41 however to play with so could replace nielsen with someone upto 6.56 which would then push taylor poole to reserve! Somerset - Todd Kurtz to reserve which might be about the same as having charles there. They will have 1.39 to play with as well though so changes may be coming but as to who????? Workington - no change and no room for change So who has the advantage for the next month??? (can you tell im bored!!)

And you know this for definite!! Ok do the sums with £30 a point it still stands the costs are not massively extra winning scoring 70 if you follow the official pay but multiply it by 2 or 3 or 4 times with "extra" then it does. Its nots scunthorpes issue if it costing teams due to those extras!

An alternative way of looking at it is that sucess costs!!! I thought it was well known that in this league you pay your own riders and im sure i have read before about how the saint cost money winning the league (not necessarily due to how mcuh per point they were on but the more points hey scored due to winning the more it costs!) Yes kings lynn have drawn the "short Straw" having to have extra meetings aginst the stags in the cup but the stags dont go out to score as little as possible to make the other teams pay more!!! Although i would be tempted to for those teams who pay over the odds to make a point!! (not including bonus points) Standard pay of £10/Point for 70 points = £700 Non standard pay of £40/point for 70 points = £2800 even then lets take say buxton who are probably slightly stronger to start the season and assume they score 35 points meaning the winning team still have to pay for at least 55 points 55pts = £550 (£150 less) 55pt on £40 = £2200 (£600 less) Can see why over payers moan more!! even so a standard season 2 meetings against scunthorpe would cost a maximum of (£500 extra if you take 70pts opposed to 45 average) which equates to 50 customers at £10 spread over a season. (or as i see it less than the money made when cradley ad thier large following come to town ad also the low points payments needed when they batter you twice!!.)

Which is exactly why i asked you to name them Steve jones has the most experience and is there to help the youngsters The second most expereinced rider in the "official Stags Team" is Dano verge!! after that the rest of the official team have a total of around 2 apperances!! (assuming that Tyler is now at umber 8 and sam is in the team that number would go up if tylers part year at buxton is included) so where the journeymen/MDL lifers are i have no idea Just to recap The "official stags team" Steve jones (Old hand to guide youngsters) Sam Chapman (first year having just signed and scores very well in MDL so next step up) Arron Mogridge (First year racing and out injured since first meeting!) Danno verge (second most experienced with a handfull of league apperances over last couple of years) Ryan MacDonald (first year and scored very well in NJL last year so next step up) Liam Sanderson (only been on a bike a year and still learning. has shown glimpses of talent but needs to build up experience ad confidence and will be riding MDL as well) Reece downes (actually has a league apperance and scored well. Injured in first meeting of season but hopefully back in a few weeks) Tyler Govier (had a season with buxton but struggled with a few injuries) They wouldnt get in any other teams as how many teams have been built with a need for 3pt riders mainly due to all the high riders from last year now gone with the points limit still high. What will happen next year when a lot of averages become much higher and there is need for 3-4pt riders. we will have a head start as ours will have the experience he other teams wil have to start bringing more through from thier MDL teams. If you completely ignore scuthorpes existance in this league what will you all say when large scores are racked up against Buxton and Possibly Plymouth that wont be our fault!! buxto hopefully will start with slightly higher scores with 3/4 riders already with league experience but as they have shown with thier struggle there is not enough riders available currently without 3pt`ers. What would have happened if the IOW were still running there would be even less!!!!

Humour me.... List the stags team and which are which!!! They already have!!! and as i have said before where do riders go once they are top scoring in the MDL?????????

Good old statistics we can use them for anything!!! (not arguing against as i agree with Rose, Owen and Bailey as newcomers still) Only one statistic i would use and is the main difference between the teams which affected the score. "number of league meetings per team" KL will be in several hundred if not more where as scunny will be probably only just over 100 with steve jones making up most of them And thats what told in the one area the stags are losing out on at the moment. "Gating" in particular on a track that having already had one meeting on becomes alot more FTG than a PL meeting Observing the starts every time the KL riders were sharper away (sometimes too sharp but get away with it as all teams seem to in NL meetings this season) even the less experiences riders in the KL team (except bailey who is just a very good young rider) have had a lot more expereince from the gate Once we see the stags start to get upto the speed of other riders out the traps then the scores will start coming as all have shown they are there with track speed. As to what work is being done to help them gate i dont know but is very hard to be done during a meeting, sometime i wonder if it is just down to setups or more importantly "newer Tyres!"

Unlikely to be that change if the rest of what rob said had also been posted Change to be made next week for anders as cannot wait for him to be fit but if he proves his fitness later on will try to get him in the team The change will push Josh up into the Number 1 position Thomas will be dropping to reserve Matt is not being replaced and "will come good" and only needs to "score 3 Pts" as we will always have a good rider at reserve So looks like the replacemet is someone around the 7pt mark Nicolai Klindt now he has left swindon or are there some other riders now around that mark from the elite league with the new averages?? (most of birmingham probably fit now!!) edit for terrible use of the english language!!!

Not conspiracy theories just gathering facts. When just a small selection of people on here cannot even get the facts the same how can either be said to be correct. Last night he deliberately placed it moving it then walked off to the centre green to "paddy" today he slowed to a halt got off and undressed standing next to the bike so therefore putting himself in danger too! As I said before anger of being wronged and calm calculated decision of placing a bike in a certain place don't go together in such a short timeframe. It would result in chucking bikes or attempting to get someone after the race Let's see what happens tonight on the cradley Coventry match discussion it will be similar to this cradley will blame the ref and say max was fenced and coventry will say the opposite

Would possibly help especially for refs if it was. I know for a fact often what individuals and the ref seein a couple of seconds is not actually what happened and as they say the camera never lies!! (Only fans and riders!!)

So now he just got of where he was and stood there which is different to what was said earlier. I'm sure the DVD will but depends if it followed the race or what was happening with Thomas. Do you have live feed there as I know at Sheffield grt send it live to TV's and wonder if it goes to the ref?

So the lights came on in roughly 7 seconds during which time his bike has coasted to a stop he has had time to reposition it get off take his helmet and goggles off get to the centre green all the time during which the ref must have been watching to decide what was happening to be able to know and fine him. So who was watching the other 3 riders? Not saying either version is correct (your fans have on view the rider a different one) but if I was suddenly infuriated about a decision that is not what I would be doing it would be more of stop sharply chuck the bike down and go mad straight away. If however my chain had come off losing power and bike coming to a halt I would get off to move the bike but if it won't move( chain jammed or in a rush forget to pull clutch in) I would then get off the track myself and try to warn people. 7 seconds is a very short time to do something so calculated and dangerous on purpose as described but is short enough to panic.

At what point did the ref put the red lights on?

Thanks for the sensible reply. I will email Bob see if he has footage

Hmm my reply didn't appear. I will not put the first part up except obviously the rider must be lying as you all say so I was mearly raising what he said I did not ask for abuse! I have 3 questions though 1. Where did the accused stand after parking his bike? 2. How did his bike finally get removed from the track? 3. What's the difference between this and a weekly occurrence where a rider comes off looks like he is going to get up and clear the track then just lay down to get the race stopped by which time the riders are almost back on top of him

I merely stated facts direct from the nearest person to the incident. But of course he is telling porkies so that gives you a right too talk to me like that. Knowing Thomas he would never do something to put other riders in danger. Not forgetting his own team mate was still in the race so would be putting him in danger too if it was done on purpose.

It was not humour just stating factual information as to why he did not move it off the track!