mikebv

Spot on. .. And some will say "we have had guests for donkeys years"... And indeed we have, however... The days of turning up at a track, without any prior knowledge, and being peed off to find out PC wasn't there and that another teams' best rider replaced him have long, long gone... Sweden and Poland run fixed nights and don't use guests.... Their Championships therefore have credibility... We run the same system and still have guests... Meaning our Championships don't have credibilty.. It's interesting we didn't use one fixed night like Sweden. So as, I presume, to facilitate the use of guests... And then our version of 'two fixed nights' is actually three, and that all fixtures are arranged, it would appear, to again, facilitate guest replacements, unlike Poland, who with their three nights still don't use guests.. What you got away with in years gone by, doesn't mean in this age of 'instant news' you can still get away with it today... When we found out PC wasn't there after we had paid our hard earned to get in, we often moaned to each other, but it was to the 10 or so people around you.... Nowadays you know BV are missing riders days in advance and instead of moaning to ten people, literally thousands on various forums get to read it... And then make their decision to attend the fixture... With many, 100% understandably, deciding against it.. If you don't run any Sport with credibility and integrity, you simply cannot complain when you struggle to generate decent crowds every week. And when you add on that winning that Sports Championship's mean very little (by the very way they are won), and you have real problems I would suggest..

Gutted for losing by four... (Because I had the Stars down for a six point win on the Belle Vue Army Prediction League)... And Bewley as top scorer. .. Damn you Rohan! Damn you! Well I had to have something to keep me interested in this nonsense meeting... Oh yes, well done to King's Lynn, the best team won.. (Well the ONLY team there won I should have said).....

Correct, four man teams with two or three guests is what we want..... Or maybe three man teams with three or four guests is what we want...? Or maybe seven man teams made up of anyone who happens to be available is what we want..? With the current piss poor attendances, paying seven, rather than less employees makes absolutely perfect fiscal sense.. Maybe Speedway should run with eight man teams to ensure its not 'repititive' and add more costs and double upping complexity?

With every single one of them committed to British Speedway.. They might not be 'Superstars' but very, very few are.. The vast majority of riders will always be 'average'... Let them earn couple of grand a week on 'average'.... Every week..

If there are not enough riders to run seven man teams then don't.. If you cannot afford to run seven man teams then don't.. The fewer riders per team will free up others to replace injured riders.. Simply base your team structures on what you can afford and run on nights that bring the most money in...

The time was probably ten or so years ago to be honest..... However, I think some egos of those who run the sport will always stand in the way... Dealing with 'superstars', I think, must give some a sense of 'reflected glory'... Ride on nights that give you the best crowd and grow the sport from its current 'rock bottom' base, only use riders committed 100% to GB Speedway. And pay them what is affordable from an entrance fee of no more than fifteen quid..

Wow... Same Sport...? Similar scenario...? Two different outcomes...? Amazing....! Who would have thought that some clubs can still actually use common sense...?

??? Come on Phil, how long have you been involved in and around Speedway Promoters??.. I presume the question must have been rhetorical as I am sure you know the answer....

Or they just call it off as "not in the interests of (British) Speedway"...? Been done before I believe?..

I too will be giving this farce a miss... However... On here and various other forums we will get several contributors to the threads discussing whom are the best guests... Several will comment that "it will still be good racing".... And come the result, several will comment on how it was either a good result or a bad one, as if it was an actual bona fide sporting contest between two professional sports teams vying for a National Title.. Sometimes, Speedway fans really do get the operating model (and sport) they deserve...

Simply do what is so obviously the thing to do when running a Motorsport business.. Run Friday and Saturday nights, and Sunday late afternoon, with riders who are 100% available EVERY week And run on EVERY Bank Holiday, THE most lucrative days to attract crowds out looking to be entertained.. Have a salary cap per team of £5k a match, meaning if they ran five man teams (to spread the riders) the 'Mr Average' rider would earn £2k a week in the two matches over each weekend. At a pay scale structure of £1500, 1250, 1000, 750, 500 per night. I am pretty sure you would get plenty of interest from many riders of a more than 'reasonable level'.. Maybe not the 'superstars', but they earn vast amounts in Poland so wouldn't be interested anyway.. And Poland may pay more than £3k in the 2nd and 3rd Divisions for one meeting but you are often only one bad meeting away from earning ZERO the week after, so a No1 who is guaranteed £3k EVERY week would find it a decent proposition I would suggest.. Charge £15 per adult and nothing for kids 16 and under. Generating £14.4k after VAT for a 1200 crowd. Thus leaving £4.4k towards your running costs after paying out to the riders for two meetings... 1. Run on days which can generate the best crowds.. 2. Run with teams full of riders who are 100% committed to British Speedway.. 3. Charge a maximum of £15 to get in with kids free.. Surely worth a go? And let's face it if you tick those three boxes and it still doesn't work, then you might as well give up, (but at least you would know you tried).. However, with the current operating model you simply have no chance of ever being successful..

At BV, Dave Gordon and Chris Morton were the 'sticking plaster' that held together the club whilst they raced on a Monday, and in the BV business plan to the council put forward for the NSS, it clearly mentioned Monday as not being viable and that running on Fridays and Saturdays will be THE main reason the club will be sustainable and profit making.. However, the way (British) Speedway has been ran for what feels like 'donkeys years' now has left literally thousands of fans disillusioned with it, and over those years far too many have simply drifted away to probably now make any night viable... There is simply zero point having "great racing" if the riders doing it are just a cobbled together, one night only, guestfest select.. Without it being ran properly, the sport actively undermines the "great racing" and sadly the crowd levels attracted to these 'Mickey Mouse' meetings will never do it justice... With the NSS you can virtually guarantee "great racing", yet I can also virtually guarantee that with the riders missing on Monday v Kings Lynn the crowd will not be in any way, shape or form, "great"..... Many on here often refer to (British) Speedway regularly "shooting itself in the foot".. But, to be honest if (British) Speedway had a rifle, and pressed it against its foot and then pulled the trigger, I actually suspect it would quite probably miss..

And Bombers on stand by should Prince Charles not make it..

A glaringly obvious opportunity missed Rob... However, just one of the very many missed every single season with the BH crowds... People say that no one knows about the Aces/Sport? Well the BH crowds show a good many do (and probably used to be regulars)... They just didn't see/couldn't afford spending circa £20 each week to attend as value for money so got out of the habit of going.. 900 paying around 20 notes will generate less than 2000 paying a tenner... But 2000 paying a tenner would generate an infinitely better atmosphere which could only encourage some to come back again... And sell more programmes and take more on the concessions... And also sell the sport far more positively on the box to those curious enough to watch the Speedway on a quiet night for live Sport now the football seasons globally are coming to a close... Rinse, repeat and fade... Edit. Hang on, doing a ten pound special would reduce the season ticket holders value. I forgot that... Or 'Trying to run a business for six months after tying both hands behind your back' as selling season tickets to a couple of hundred people (at best) should be known..

The only issue with that plan is that they would arrange all three Test matches on Wednesdays and have to get a load of Poles and Swedes in to guest as the British and Danes would all be unavailable...

But again there in lies another of Speedways nonsense operating ideas.. If, as they did, they decided Wednesday and not the agreed Thursday was going to be the fixed night, then it should have been decreed no Danish riders allowed.. Or... The fixed nights will be, as agreed, Monday and Thursday, hence no clashes with Denmark so all Danish riders allowed.. 'Common sense' I believe it is known as... Typically Speedway in this country then tried to deliver its usual cobbled together half arsed plan that appeases everyone but ultimately helps no one to move the Sport forward.. Death by a thousand (self inflicted) cuts could be a very apt description....

And isn't this exactly why Speedway has zero credibility as a team sport...? Promoters must literally spend hours trying to arrange meetings to get an advantage over their rivals knowing they will be missing riders, and then more hours sourcing the best guests available.. Rather than spending those zero value adding hours planning (and then aggressively promoting), meetings that have both credibility and integrity.... The irony being is that all that planning and thought is designed to win a meeting that is now rendered totally meaningless by the very definition of the teams so painstakingly put together..! You couldn't make it up sometimes could you? Poole have released Kildemand as he will miss nine matches however if he had been running an 11 point average, and they would have then have had the whole league to use as guests on a 'horses for courses' basis, would they have done it? (If they could have had guests that is? Or would it have been an NL rider only they could use? Or does it come down to which meeting was arranged first? Or which meeting was rearranged first? Etc etc etc).. The fact the sport, by its actions, even facilitates such discussion about such nonsense on social meda, pretty much sums out why it is so out of touch with it current fan base and the much, much higher numbers in its 'ex fanbase'.... Simply Crackers... And I know it would never happen but this is exactly the kind of thing an independent body or person running the sport would simply not allow.... As they/he (or she it is 2018), would simply see these perpetual self inflicted situations as far too brand damaging to ever be allowed, even just once... (Never mind 'ad infinitum')!!...

To be fair to Manzares no one can really know who is riding when and where till every rider in the stadium has actually had a race most nights... More chance of him winning the Euro millions I reckon than predicting which riders will make up a Speedway team on any given night... Getting the popcorn out ready for TJ's response..

Don't you just love this sport when you watch this level of racing?!!!! WOFFY! WOFFY! WOFFY!

Maybe a bit controversial for some on here, but I do actually think that there is too much Speedway... Bank Holidays tend to be frequented by many for whom that day is their only visits of the year... And if you only attended on those days you would think Speedway was popular as you would always be part of a decent crowd.... Maybe Speedway should just go down the Stock Car route and run around 8 individual meetings per track per year, with effective marketing and promotion seperate for each event, on days that actually encourage crowds to attend (ie Weekends). There simply isn't enough riders (or too many teams?) to keep churning out meeting after meeting, night after night, around the country. Hence many meetings become Mickey Mouse, contrived nonsense which actively dissuades attendance to a large contingent of the possible crowd, and does great damage to the Speedway 'brand'.. The bottom line is that if you cannot run ANY Team Sport with credibility or integrity to engage that emotional attachment from a support base, then you have pretty much no chance of ever being successful.. Speedway does though have that tremendously exciting spectacle of the racing which can be appreciated by many thousands when done well, so should maybe just sell that spectacle as a stand alone rather than a contrived team ethos? Bank Holidays show the potential audience who know what Speedway is and where it takes place, with many no doubt being ex regulars... They just don't want to go every week/fortnight.. Possibly less is actually more...?

Well that's the Sport knackered then..... Because "Hey, why dont all you fans bring a friend" appears to be the only 'marketing plan' of the past 25 years used...

For me.... The NSS should become 'Speedway's Wembley'... Modern facilities which followers of other sports would expect should they attend a meeting, AND a fantastic race track on which to showcase Speedway racing at its very, very best.. All done approx 1 mile away from city centre Manchester (which is quite probably the Sporting Capital of Britain)... The Sport desperately needs a 'hub', and with the office facilities there as well, making the NSS the administration centre would also make sense.. Very Central too with excellent motorway, rail and coach route links... I personally don't attend every meeting there, and wouldn't attend all the 'big ones' so it doesn't really bother me either way, however the Sport needs a big profile boost and where better than gaining it at the home of the Belle Vue Aces (one of very few Speedway teams non followers can name) in a vibrant, major city renowned for Sporting success? It won't happen of course as there will be plenty wanting their own little slice of the action, however tiny that action in reality is...

It was quite simple wasn't it? Monday - Britain Tuesday - Sweden Wednesday - Denmark Thursday - Britain Friday - Poland Saturday - Poland Sunday - Poland.. Everyone leaves the meetings with agreed proposals.. Cannot think how it all went wrong.. (Amazed Poland didn't fight for Monday's and give up one of their weekend days)..

Or at the very start of the season before Poland and Sweden kick off as the end of the season often sees a few unexpected 'illnesses and injuries'..! In fact, launch the Speedway Season on the back of it... Run it at the NSS, no better place to 'showcase' the Sport than watching the best riders in domestic speedway riding on such a fantastic race track with modern stadium facilities... Do a fan zone in Mcr City Centre on the Friday and Saturday with all tracks in attendance.... Maybe even run the Championship Riders the day after and make a Speedway Weekend out of it...? (Wouldnt cost too much in hotels for the riders to stay over on Saturday night too as many will have 'qualified' for both meetings!)..

The PDC and BDO do 'share' competitors for various events through the year, (now where have we seen that before?) with The Grand Slam Of Darts being the most well known... And to be fair, several BDO lads do hold their own in that competition, usually until the later stages when the matches get longer.. Although there is an obvious difference in the overall standard between the two, that difference in the competitors capabilites is no where near as wide as the HUGE gulf in how both sports are promoted, marketed and, at the event, presented to the fans by their respective controlling bodies... Truly is 'chalk and cheese'... One tries to deliver a night of noise, colour, excitement and encourages audience participation, where you come away from it very content that you got value for your money, and (probably more importantly), will attend again.. The other is sat in a time warp that has never even reached the end of the 20th Century, never mind being fit for purpose to be successful well into the 21st.... Spookily similar to Poland and Britain's philosophy on how they run their Speedway I would suggest...