norbold

Belle Vue 59 Wimbledon 19 Wimbledon 43 Belle Vue 35 Can't help with the four team tournament at Leicester at the moment. p.s. Belle Vue raced 36 matches for a total of 51 points; Wimbledon 36 for 37

You're right there, youngy. A Belle Vue dream team must be almost impossible. Considering you've left out Eric Langton, Frank Varey, Louis Lawson, Ove Fundin, Ron Johnston, Max Grosskreutz and Cyril Maidment. Another whole team. But then who would you leave out of your team to put any of those in???

I have just been reading how Vic Huxley once actually rode his speedway bike from Charing Cross to Euston to get the train to Manchester as his van and trailer had broken down! Can that be true???

I went to White City a number of times and (nearly) always enjoyed the racing. As wwtbp says it was a bit slick, but mostly good for racing. I think the real problem with the stadium was the atmosphere. It was a very big stadium with very small crowds and you couldn't really get into the spirit of it. It was better, of course, for the big meetings, but league meetings were very flat.

Yes, it's great Jim. Just had a listen on the web site. Excellent.

Put him in a match race against Archie Windmill.

I've just checked and they're not there yet. I could e-mail them to you if you wish. I also have some of Hackney. I said on another thread that there was still some of the stadium there the last time i was there(10years ago).Part of the park included some of the terracing from one of the bends.There was also some gate houses or something. Wasn't there also a bit of the Palace track/stadium?Thought there was a Crystal Palace tour once a month or so that took you all around the whole site of the exhibition,including the dinosaurs:unsure: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I haven't been to New Cross for some time (too painful ) but I don't think anything has changed since your last visit, iris. I don't know about the Crystal Palace tour.

Yes he was.

You're right TMW, he doesn't know! Oh well, a trip to the Family Records Centre in Islington should sort it out...

Yes.

You're right Star Lady. It is by Carl Teike. Sorry to mislead you, Jim, with my guess at Alford.

The 1949 Who's Who gives it as 1911. I've e-mailed Mike Kemp to ask if he knows the exact date!

It's probably by Kenneth Alford. He wrote every British march going!

I've got photos of New Cross, Harringay, West Ham and Norwich. I have sent them to the www.speedwayplus.co.uk site mentioned above, so they should be there, though I haven't checked to see if they are. Harringay is a Sainsbury's; West Ham and Norwich are housing estates; Lea Bridge is part of an industrial estate; London White City is the BBC; Stamford Bridge is home to a little known football club called Chelsea; Crystal Palace is an athletics track; New Cross is part housing and part park.

The Wembley book is due out next March I think.

Yes, sorry, you're absolutely right Jim. It was six team matches I was thinking of.

Sorry, lejon, I don't really know how many were at New Cross's re-opening. Actually they re-opened in 1959 with 6 "open" meetings; four team matches and two individual trophies. I guess if 7500 were at the New Cross v. Wimbledon London Cup match, crowds would generally have been lower than that as the South London derby was a big event attracting large numbers of Wimbledon supporters as well.

I believe the pre-war crowd figures for New Cross were around the 20 - 25,000 mark. It was a small stadium so it was practically packed out most meetings I have just come across a reference to the 1935 Test match at New Cross being held in front of a capacity audience of 30,000.

I forgot to answer iris's question about White City. Apparently gates rarely got any higher than 1500 and most of the time hovered around the 1000 mark. If 10,000 at Wembley lacked atmosphere you can imagine what 1000 was like at White City!

I believe the pre-war crowd figures for New Cross were around the 20 - 25,000 mark. It was a small stadium so it was practically packed out most meetings Thank you for those few kind words Ian. I have seen the opening night attendance at Wembley in 1970 put at between 17 and 20,000 spectators (one of whom was me!). And yes, they continued to average about 10 - 12,000. I believe the last night crowd was in the region of 10,000. In contrast to New Cross, of course, Wembley was a very large stadium so 10,000 seemed very small in comparison. There were often complaints about lack of atmosphere during the 70s revival. Remember that just after the War, Wembley had been attracting regular weekly gates of 40 - 50,000.

Yes, exactly the same situation with Norwich, who were probably the best supported team in the country at the time of their demise. Their owners sold the land for property development.

I think you're on dangerous territory here, Ian! The Entertainments Tax was originally introduced in 1916. It was increased in 1949 and again in 1950....

I've just been looking at the 1951 World Final gate receipts. The total taken was £24,241 of which 46.5% went in Entertainment Tax, i.e. £11,279. Had it been a soccer, rugby, cricket or ice hockey match or an athletics, lawn tennis, swimming, cycling or boxing meeting the tax taken would have been £3,344 (13.79%). The comment from the Speedway Control Board was, "The comparatively high admission charges made necessary by this heavy tax have undoubtedly contributed to the decline in attendances on many tracks during the year. If justice was done and this heavy and illogical tax was adjusted to the level obtaining for other non-betting sports, promoters would be able to reduce admission charges, giving a stimulus to attendances, badly needed by many tracks if they are to survive." Incientally the attendance at the 1951 World Final was 93,000

Thanks Addy. You're well above Ian now!

I have to say, Ian, that Addy is now well ahead of you on the norbold popularity meter!