Grand Central

I forgot that golden rule relating to projects like this. Blind optimism helps immensely in bringing it to fruition. Whereas the airing of concerns, pragmatism and realism are always to be avoided. Oh, yes, you're quite right. I was actually referring really to the Speedway operation at Hyde Road in the almost 60 years it ran. We always called that The Zoo. Not the actual Zoo. That had, probably the best chance of being the most profitable Speedway operation in the Uk. But did it really ever bring in the level of earnings that are going to be required to pay off this debt now being taken on?

I wonder if any Speedway promotion in the history of the sport has ever made the equivalent of £4.5M to £6M profit. I doubt that THF (and their predecessors) ever did that at the old Zoo.

How right you are. Journalism on this and so many issues in Speedway seems to stop at what the Journalist has just been 'told' by others 'who should know'.. Rarely does it seem to involve making investigations of their own via more productive routes.

Manchester City Council's website, like all Council's nowadays, offers anyone the opportunity to search for Planning applications. I cannot see one for this project. I have never heard of building contractors putting in planning applications in the way that you suggest Phil. It would be good to get this more precisely understood. The money, 4.5M GBP is being lent by MCC to Belle Vue Arenas Ltd. The Council are borrowing from 'Prudential Borrowing' (what is this?) themselves so that it is not coming out of Council Revenues. I see no mention of Manchester City FC funding being related to the National Speedway Stadium as you suggest. But, whatever the source, this is debt that must be repaid; and at whatever interest rate the Council is having to pay to get it. We all know that is cheap, now. But over 60 years? Even with zero interest that is £75,000 per annum of capital repayment; and every 1% of interest charged would (at the start) cost an additional £45,000 pa. Has any Speedway promotion ever operated under such a level of debt repayments? Quite a few people seem better informed than me so I will let them, once again, rip my concerns apart.

That's OK on all grounds then. My mind is now at rest.

I think an awful lot of the pessimism expressed here looks warranted. And am surprised that words spoken quite some time ago are still being taken as gospel now. When so much time has passed with no concrete action hasvingtaken place. And the fact that this particular promotion entrusted with the operation is not even regarded that well WITHIN Speedway. Doesn't give one much cause for optimism for their performance on this much larger stage. And over 60 years. I mean, sorry, but would you want YOUR local council, spending your council tax on this loan deal. Really.

Fine in Theory. But did you go to the Fours at Peterborough? .

Fair point.

No there was something positive to come out of it I think we found that when it comes to the nominated races. Magnetic nameplates are marginally better than coloured building bricks. But only just. .

As starman2006 so eloquently tells us. NEIL COULD NOT HAVE DONE ANY MORE THAN HE DID. And NO ONE COULD HAVE DONE ANY BETTER THAN NEIL. Shall we just leave it there. Neil will give up as he really cannot do any more. And as No One is better than Neil. Then I suggest we go with No One. Then Starman2006 can step down from this demanding role of Defender of the Friendless. And take the holiday he deserves. I recommend a lovely B&B in Sturminster Marshall.

This sort of thing always makes me smile. The polish guys speaking a load of tosh about something that is completely impossible to either prove true or false. But. As a British journo, of some long standing. I'm sure that you would never claim such a thing. To know what a whole load of British fans were, collectively, going to do. If only. But then they didn't. And they all know it's down to Gollob. Wouldn't it be great if a British journos job really was that easy.

I can't think of any sport that seeds the hosts to the final stage of the competition. Seeded as one of the last four. Can you? Football and Rugby don't do that at all. I would have thought that Peterborough had the best possibilities with all the room for temporary stands of almost any size they needed. But being realistic I can't really say that a stadium 'capacity' would even be tested Peterborough 02. Poole 04. Reading 06. Did the 'House Full' signs go up?

As David Brent said 'Everyone should have a pipe dream.'

I'd love to see what would happen when one of those numpties wants to 'miss the traffic' by 'nipping off before the last race'. Utterly stupid. But they'll be paid a fortune to come up with this sort of guff.

Completely true. In most of the cases mentioned the hosts were or would have been in a serious chance of winning the damn thing. So the crowd would be enticed along to watch their nation challenge for a world title, The strange thing in 2013 is that BSI must have expected a whole load of masochistic Czechs to turn up for some form of national public humiliation. Just a bit strange.

No problem at all. My view is just about the same as your own. The only point on the joker or tac sub issue is that up until the BSI incarnation of the World Cup there had never been any sort of tactical arrangements in a World Championship event (except the use of reserves). Their usage in league and club competitions had been well established for decades but I cannot remember anyone ever suggesting it for the international stage. That is different. It just feels wrong. And yes, SCB, I have always looked in disbelief at the naming. Nothing shows it up for what it is more than the word Joker. And no one in the right places can see that. Downright weird.

Pretty much just the same as at KL for a mid week meeting, as that looks to have been a similar crowd for the last few years despite any wider decline. And a few more if held at a weekend, especially somewhere a bit more accessible like Peterborogh or Coventry. I can't imagine it ever being more than 10,000. No matter who is in the final. PS... Phil. It was you who asked how many were at Peterborough in the past. So a little strange of you to say 'it is not about the past'.

I don't think anyone was suspecting there was. It's just that with either of your two hats on. We would have thought you better placed to have accurate figures from the past. And even a better idea of future expectations. But clearly we were wrong.

Quite amazing. You admonish everyone else for discussing the points of criticism. And then go through each one. And pretty much agree with every bit of that criticism. You admonish everyone for airing grievances at the expense of looking at the positives. And (excepting MJJ getting second place in the last heat decider) do not highlight any real positives. What do you perceive as being really any different in your contribution. .

The speedway track did not 'surround' the football pitch at Wembley. Only the bends were visible when the the full sized pitch was put down over the rest of the track on the straights.

Two of the best Speedway Stadiums in the world at Torun And Gorzow. And undoubtedly the best racing track in the world at Bydgoszcz. Lets give up on one. And have one of Ole's special temporary tracks instead. We know we can always rely on them.

Not me. Just the fervent hope that he is YESterday's man. Even I groaned after writing such tosh. But you get the point.

Let us all hope you are right ... 'Neil, will you go to Rugby to get your licence?' NO 'Neil, you must realise that Kennet is the wrong choice. Will you change your mind'? NO 'Neil, Surely King is a better choice than Barker?' NO 'Neil, you must leave Harris in this race he has just scored 5 points' NO 'Neil, do you want another year as Team GB coach?' NO NO NO NO NO We can but hope.

That's fine. We must be alone though in being a sport which actually uses the term 'Joker'. It sounds like something our worst detractors would use to describe it. For reasons of denigration. Not a term that the series organiser would promote and even create graphics about. There must be some funny chaps in the TV world. Or at least in our little corner of it.

I just detest the rule and it did spoil my enjoyment a fair bit. As it does every year. If it had been a deal breaker for the TV companies then I may have had to accept it as a necessary evil. Better to have the meeting on TV with Jokers. Than not at all. But if, as you say, it was not a deal breaker. The meeting would still have been on Eurosport on Saturday. Even without them. And that is a fact. It is not something we NEED to satisfy the moguls. So now we are just stroking egos in TV land? And Sod the others? Nice to know The FACTS. .