sparkafag

Christ what an absolute doom monger you are, it has went from you asking why you should go to speedway, to you go and it is crap and you don’t like it anyway, to speedway only exists so promoters can fiddle the books, honestly why bother going to the effort? it quite clearly isn’t a deep rooted love of the sport. Re this thread. It isn’t long. It is about 15 pages and has about 15 contributors and a few who just keep going on about speedway and how they don’t actually like it, If you were to strip it down and look at that in the context of people who attend speedway that is about 0.0000000023 % of people who go that have bothered to post on here about how they also agree the sport is crap and boring. There is a group of absolute narks who populated and pollute this forum and get it in their head that because 2 other people occasionally like their posts that they are totally validated when they claim 70,000 people have walked away from the sport because of tactical rides and race jackets. They do this despite there not actually being anything to validate that as there could be (and is) 10,000 reasons why people have walked away, but no these people then go on and on and on and on and on and on about how the sport is dying day in day out, thread after thread after thread, it is a drain on people who do actually enjoy speedway, it is probably the reason the guy wrote in about Rossiter because most speedway fans are fed up hearing about how crap a sport they like is at the best of times without being told the same thing when they are trying to enjoy a meeting on TV. You have placed speedway in this prism of your mind and written your own context and narrative of how you see the sport and feel that those who don’t agree with you are happy clappers who adore the sport and feel all is right, it is complete nonsensical gibberish, it is a strawman, a false opposition an attempt to add weight to your posts and validate what you feel rather than it actually being correct. The person you have created, this person who cannot see a problem with the sport does not exist, there is no such person, that person is your own personal bogeyman. As I have said, and will say again, this is a SPEEDWAY FORUM, the reason a number of people still attend is because they like speedway, it isn’t there blame other people have decided the sport isn’t for them, it is just unfortunate that have to suffer the intolerable bullrubbish of people who have decided they don’t want to attend any more, thinking that and feeling that doesn’t mean they feel all is well with the sport.

And yet again.....or they just like the sport.

Redcar and Scunthorpe both look weak but actually going and taking a win, and taking a win in the manor Peterborough did is easier said than done. It would cost a lot IMO, as in order to sign a side that wins every week at home at Peterborough you would need to sign one of the top 2 or 3 riders in every position as it is one of the few tracks that I would assume most riders in the league will like and will turn up on and ride in a way they wouldn’t a lot of other tracks in the country and thus the standards that have to be hit at home every week will be a lot higher than some tracks where they can dial it in against a lot of sides in the league.

I think this side already has come good as such, picking up big wins on the road is pretty tough. The side Peterborough would have to build to go unbeaten at home would cost a fortune as it would need to be absurdly strong from 1-7 just to counteract what other sides can do around their track.

Either that or go and like it, you do realise that happens yes? Some people actually like Speedway

Peterborough would be best served sticking with what they have rather than making changes. They will always be quite vulnerable at home as the track is just that much fun to ride that teams will always turn up with the attitude that they can do something, it is why you will get guys like Allen and BWD racing there first time and scoring points they might not at other tracks they visit first time (Edinburgh and Newcastle for example). I don’t think a change of side would massively alter the attitude of away riders, so they are best served just riding it out and picking up what they can on the road and accepting a blip at home is never far away IMO.

I have always had a lot of time for Olly Allen, he is articulate and really interesting and unlike Talk Sport presenters he doesn’t say things for the sake of being controversial but just has naturally thought provoking opinions. I also enjoy Simon Stead. Neither here nor there really just personal preference but I wouldn’t mind if the presenter didn’t impose his thoughts on a debate before it actually started as it sets a tone, but that’s just being picky given the shows are really good.

One of the bonuses is that it will at least counter the “What if Newman/Wright etc end up with 7.00 averages” point.

That it would be mental if they did given thus far the season (Leicester apart who are terrible irrespective of race format) isn’t actually playing out on track as was predicted and has actually been quite competitive with surprise results already and a nice close league.

I think Hollyoaks is pretty crap, I wouldn’t bother registering on their forum to post that though, nor would I start with the “happy clapper chat” if people said they did enjoy it. The “happy clappers who wish the sport dead” chat is the wankiest load of nonsense that is posted on this forum. If people genuinely don’t enjoy the sport to the point they like posts by people who find it boring, why bother going on a speedway forum.

Or maybe best to judge performances in context given the home meeting before the Wolves match one was paid for 14 from 5 and the other paid 10 from 4?

Decent stats but I can’t say it comes as a shock to me that in 2007 a summer when destructive floods wreaked havoc across the country and the month of June was one of the wettest months on record in Britain there was a number of rain offs. Take into account 2007 recorded one of the wettest months on record and 2012 was one of the wettest summers in 100 years it seems pretty reasonable that there would be more rain offs now than ever before.

Woffinden Denmark Belle Vue Newcastle

It isn’t an old chestnut, the real problem that is streaming services is quite a new one, and nor at any stage has anyone said that all of speedways ills are to blame on society or streaming services. A massive difference between shows on Netflix that are seemingly “far more entertaining” and speedway/sport though is that they are entertainment shows that are scripted, last night’s meeting, and every meeting/game put on is a “sporting” event which isn’t built to entertain neutrals if it happens to tick that box though it is an additional bonus Sky “Sports” will show hour after hour of football, rugby, NFL, Golf and Speedway this season and the vast majority of what they show will be boring dud, crap TV, that is before you even consider that most of the viewers qho are watching the events as neutrals with zero emotional attachment to either side, thus decreasing their opinion of what they are watching even further, as would have been the case last night with Leicester and Swindon (bet most Leicester fans thought it was great) What Sport does have is an incredible ability to create an organic script that sees the unexpected produced on occasion that is the magic of sport. In all honesty if anyone regularly attends a sides meetings, football matches etc and is a season ticket holder they will see quite a low % of amazing moments, but it is worth suffering through the general regression of mean that is a game of football/speedway meeting for those moments. I would assume any speedway fan who follows a side and attends weekly will only really see 4 or 5 excellent meetings a season and probably only about 20 or 30 excellent races live, that ratio probably hasn’t changed much over the years, people simply don’t recall and reminisce about crap races or crap games of football, or games of football that drag on for 30 minutes or so as sides hang on for a draw or see a game out for a win, that’s where sport massively differs from other forms of entertainment, and that’s generally why people have such a strong emotional bond to sport that they will rarely have for TV shows, that bond is sports USP.

Speedway, lower league Football, cinema etc, in fact any form of entertainment that was previously seen as a weekly experience faces far more competition now than it ever has. As a global population there are more forms of entertainment available to us all now than there ever has been before. It is now possible for people to watch a game of football from anywhere in the world in their own home rather than attending a speedway meeting, to watch a film that is premiering at the cinema from their own home rather than attend a speedway meeting. The standard of TV show available from streaming services like Netflix or on Sky Atlantic is at a level it has never been before, these are all things people can chose to do rather than attend a speedway meeting. These are the trends speedway has to move with and adapt around and could do more of via better social interaction and a more modern presentation of the sport (team suits alone isn’t enough the entire product needs a more “night out/darts” feel to it IMO, appreciate others will disagree). Consider all of those things and then consider the changing demographic of a typical family relationship now compared to 15/20/30 years ago eg the man of the house having to spend more time with the family than ever before and then you can see why attendances have massively dropped since the 80s but have remained consistently around that drop for nearly 20 years now since 2000s, thus that is the regression to the mean for the sport. It is a sport that attracts bang average/low attendances but does attract an audience and continues to, it is just that the lower crowds are now the norm rather than an irregularity and the sport has “lived” with that for kicking on 10 + years now. I doubt things like FTR, Guests, RR etc are going to massively impact crowds because only about 0.000001% of the population actually care about those things (albeit I appreciate those that do care have a passionate care of the subjects). I think the things that will make it peak within that market will be, quite often dependant on the weather that season (not something that can be controlled but given it is a summer sport it is a massive factor in the direction a season goes) the way it is priced, I think it is overpriced given the other options available and also the balance of sides at the start of the season, eg, I think this season will impact a lot of drifting fans in the EL, although probably not at tracks like Poole, Belle Vue, Swindon, Wolves, Lakeside where it looks like they will have a “good season”. I don’t think you will ever see a massive increase in attendances again but simply sliding scales within the 500/3,000 market dependant where you are in the country and the season the side is having, and given it has now done that for 10 + years I don't see why it would suddenly die out because of that in the short term at least.

You said you expected abuse in response to your original reply despite there being no reason to expect abuse, if anything people on this forum have been supportive of your posting and encouraging you to come back to speedway. Re Team suits, at an EL meeting you will see a team in Lakeside suits (if the riders are racing for Lakeside) v a team in Swindon race suits (if they are racing for Swindon) if you went to a Lakeside v Swindon meeting. If someone isn’t able to identify between the two then they wouldn’t be able to identify between different football kits, rugby kits, NFL kits which would suggest those sports also have an issue with team identity* *like speedway, they don't The suits are actually easier to identity from a distance as from a distance you can barely see most sponsors on the suits. I think they have been a good thing for the most part, more so since the inclusion of a more generic looking bottom end of the suit to enable further clarity when riders guest. That being said, I think that referencing suits is a nuance in the grand scheme of speedways issues. Issues that I personally don’t think will lead to it “dying” I think that referencing the sport as “dying” is slightly hyperbolic and a term often used to add weight to a point and is a term generally used by people who have walked away from the sport. I think a sport that can attract 30,000 to a stadia like Cardiff, 4,000 + for Play Off Finals, 6,000 at Belle Vue the other week etc will always have a place and isn’t going to “die” the sport will though have to continue to adjust with fast moving trends to ensure it always finds its market place, which is never going to be where it was during its high water mark days. That doesn’t meant things are “ok” it is however ok to accept that speedway is a lower tier sport in this country that will peak and trough.

Who is happy the sport is dying? Who is happy to let that happen? Who has said the sport is doing ok? Who has abused you? The answer to all of those questions is absolutely no one on this thread, so maybe come down off your high horse. I think it harsh to say the sport needs team suits, even though it does and then for you to say they are awful, that’s a subjective opinion that will differ based on who is spoken to, teams are never going to simply straw poll you alone re how suits should appear.

I wouldn’t abuse someone but it always irks me a little when someone throws out a definitive post of what the sports needs and should be like and then claims “expecting abuse and excuses”. I mean it isn’t like people might just disagree, no. Instead anything said in counter is instantly positioned as abuse and excuses. I mean a decent counter point being the sport needs team suits…. It has had them for about 20 years now, but that’s just an abusive excuse.

Could have ended it at that.

The biggest difference between R/R and a junior replacing a member of the 1-7 is that one of those things has actually happened and one hasn’t which gives those who are anti R/R some weight to their argument. If you are anti R/R you can point at that tangible and say “this has damaged the sport” and are probably right, I don’t think many would say it hasn’t been one of the 1,000 cuts. It isn’t possible though to point at the damage a junior guesting for a member of the 1-7 would do, and that is a blessing IMO, because while there isn’t recent evidence to support what would happen if a junior was drafted into the side, I don’t think I want to see it to enable people to say “told you so” as they stand there with literally no one in attendance.

Would it not just be easier (and far less time consuming) to say you don’t know how many people should be attending speedway at Scunthorpe in order to make it viable?

It is a forum discussion I haven't once been concerned about it let alone worried.... It would be naïve of me to assume I know how much it costs to run a speedway meeting. I don’t know how much it costs to have programmes printed let alone what it costs for catering, health and safety , ambulance crew, stadium running costs, average income/outgoings for a meeting or any additional income paid for catering/drinks etc, hence asking to see if anyone did know, or had a rough idea re what is sustainable for a side rather than just making wild sweeping claims about costs and knowing what everyone seemingly knows re what riders are paid.

I don’t know but it isn’t really a fair gauge. A rider is generally booked to guest because they are good at a track (eg 15 point max at Berwick for own club, higher score at Workington for his own club), his season average will take into account how he performs across a number of tracks.

No, I haven’t said so because I don’t know, hence I asked, nor do I think riders do it as a hobby I think it is pretty natural to think they are paid but I don't know the figures or "costs" involved.

Is that not entirely presumptuous though? In that the “costs” involved aren’t something that’s openly published and riders pay rates definitely aren’t open to the public I think the sport in this country is in a state as it is without fans simply guestimating the amount of money actually required to put on a speedway meeting or deciding based on very little what is viable or not.