STEVEHOLS54

Yes not an easy decision in a sport which is arguably dropping further in fan support looking at some of the comments coming from BV Fans etc BV etc. If the all singing and all dancing NSS is struggling to attract over 1000 then maybe some harsh and tough decisions need to be taken at the end of this season. Poole arguably have not been hit so bad as they kept their Wed night as not reliant on Danish League racers so dont lose out. What has hit their crowds imo is a combination of the rain offs/poor weather - poor start for the team as not lived up to what many expected (incl myself). Even last night had an element of doubt with rain soaked track delaying the start and even then RH took better to it. Or was it because RH had so many experts of the Poole track - or maybe Poole riders were poor (as shown in most meetings so far) - Maybe the truth is a combo of all of those factors. Another 300 souls per meeting would bring in say £5.5K plus extra's. Is it enough ?? or would sponsors also plug part of that cost. Who knows. The fact remains that if Matt leaves it as is we may well see a continuance of falling crowds if the team under perform. You are kind of damned if you do and damned if you dont. If Matts main source of personal income is from Poole Speedway then surely he has to do something in what supposed to be (and was well reported and advertised) a very special season. Let's be honest even if you look on the BSF Forum the amount of posting is hardly inspiring in general. Poole themselves by far take up the biggest content and even on here the input is at times slow to poor in contributors. Its like real interest in sensible dialogue and opinion is on the wain. Thats no dig at those who contribute as we need as many as possible, but we need more constructive contribution and less of what some call trolling/digging for the sake of having a pop.

Hence my earlier posts about how Matt Ford may well redeclare his team with an 8 pointer and keeping Brady Kurtz (and Chris Holder) and still be within the 42.5 point limit for June (and onwards). I suppose we will find out if I am anywhere near the mark with my thoughts in the next 10 days or so. I hope so as I feel that will be the difference between a challenging for the title team or one stuck in the pack. For me Brady is still learning and doesnt deserve the pressure of being an out and out number one at only 21. He has lots to learn and has already done well to be in such a lofty position in the Poole team plus now signed in POL EXL and Swe this season. He will improve as its as much mentally with him as well as skill on the bike, which he certainly has. If Chris is coming back I would expect hi to be steady if not spectacular. That proven heat leader for me is what may define Poole's season ultimately. Still fairly early doors but Poole need to fight its way up the league first. A top rider will lift some of that pressure off Brady and if the other newbies do improve (as we hope) and with a strongish reserve pairing then there is indeed optimism going forward.

Don't disagree with a lot you say Starman. BUT.... I can't help thinking Matt has something up his sleeve to come in and accomodate these new GSA's that will come in after the Wolves home meeting as that is the last qualifying date for the new riders this season (4h - 4A). What with Brady also now on target to be below 8 for June (7.63 on his rolling 20 match GSA going into the Wolves match)so allows another heat leader. I assume excl Nielsen who could be a real ace in the pack if he can keep that 3.67 going into June. he should do with what will be only 4 matches completed. We have 6 matches between 28/5 and 27/6 and would be nice if we could get Woryna also at reserve where with a 6/7 ride possibility could be another ace up the sleeve. We have already seen him starting to improve riding if not points wise and wouldnt surprise me if it all comes together for him June onwards. I see Poole have updated their stats on the website for the riders. Incredibly Woryna and Spaniak on exactly the same potential GSA of 4.90. Spaniak slightly higher if you factor in BP. Will be interesting if they make sure Woryna scores at least one point less than Spaniak for that last GSA qualifying meeting next Wednesday ;-) I just feel that if they can get a reasonably consistent top man (and I dont mean Chris as he is too inconsistent until he proves to me otherwise), then this team probably really can scale some heights as some of these riders who have been struggling really start showing what they are capable of. As I said before. Could be an interesting week or so on the team news front.

Wouldnt be the first time that rumour surfaced as it happened preseason as well. I do hope there is some team replanning being thought through as to have so many riders under performing to such a level is a concern. I cant see anyway this current lot will be challenging in the present format even if we are a long way off the play offs. A point against an understrength BV and another against a not great RH side is not optimistic for muchj needed points on the road if we are going to get into the play offs. Most of the sides seem capable of beating each other which means for me those top 4 spots are going to be harder than maybe last season. Suppose all will be revealed in the coming week or so after the Wolves match when we will know if these artificially low new GSA's are part of some plan to accomodate another top heat leader. If people think Holder coming back will change things big time, I am not convinced based on what I have seen so far. First GP was pretty good but his POL/SWE League from has been his typical inconsistency of the last season or so. We shall see.

I would happily take him or Piotr Pawlicki :-) Supposed we will just have to dream as to what Matt is thinking/planning ;-)

Last nights result also bears out my thoughts of earlier. For Poole all that was important was a win and 3 points. They get no further points irrespective of the 47-43 win or if they had thumped in 60 points and would also have ended up with higher potential new GSA's as a result. I hope that is the case as if these riders were all riding supposedly at the top of their game then such a result against a Rye team who have so far been hammered away and i expect will continue to do so, was hardly an inspiring team performance overall. I would hope it was more to do with the team post 1st June ;-)

I am starting to think more and more that an 8 pointer may be on his way, if the supposedly twice spotted Piotr Pawliki in Poole rumour is true. For me the current team stats would also back it up. Although surprisingly Poole on the website have been a bit slow to update the GSA's after last nights meeting even though they have updated the league table. Makes me think, I wonder why. Maybe trying to keep some of the planning under the current radar as still Wolves at home to go before the new rider revised GSA's apply under the 4H - 4A rule ?? My take on it (for what its worth) and for those who like playing the numbers game. Firstly I think Nielsen having only recently been signed will keep his season assessed 3.67 as he would only have ridden 4 meeting after the last qualifying meeting next week. Not the 4H- 4A so will keep 3.67. If so I reckon we could have. B.Kurtz on approx 7.60 after last night on his 20 meeting rolling GSA AV C.Holder 7.16 (His starting GSA having not ridden) Woryna at approx 4.91 Mats Spaniak 4.95 (Is Kacper close to dropping into the reserve slot ???. I wouldnt complain if thats how it pans out). Nielsen hopefully retained ?? at 3.67 Mystery rider 8.00 ?? I calculate those 6 to total approx 36.29 leaving 6.21 to get to the 42.5 limit. Now rather interestingly Sundstrom is on target for a new GSA after his 4H - 4A of about 5.66 - Grazoniak is on target for about ??? he was on a 20 match rolling GSA of 6.62 after Mondays match and would have dropped slightly but not by much after last night. Arguably doesnt fit in a redeclared side IF Matt is thinking along these lines. Sund would fit with his reassessed GSA. Of course these are just my thoughts. Other opinions are available ;-)

Any chance we can get Magic back ????? Has scored 12 points from 4 rides with Holder having 2 zero blow outs on the trot. A bit like Holders form in POL. Too many inconsistent rides with the odd flashes of brilliance. Think this is what we may get when he returns to Poole. I am not a believer that he will turn us from this seasons also ran's to play off status personally but thats just an opinion. I still think we need a top guy as Brady will continue his up and down scores as he develops around Europe. Its all part of a riders progress as they come to turns with all the different tracks - set ups and hardening up to being consistently at the top. Let's not forget he is only 21 and maybe another 3/4 years before he is true heatleader class throughout Europe. (Assuming he makes it as he is well on the way). Its all a learning curve. Anyway - Passing the forum over to others as on here for too long tonight ;-)

Brady must have been looking in. He just won a race beating Andreas Jonsson and Rob Lambert in the process.

Hey - Come on this is a Poole 2018 forum ;-) In fairness he is doing well in SWE and POL and seems to have upped his game in UK. To indulge you though - yes 9 points from his first 3 rides is indeed good. Which begs the question why is Brady Kurtz not doing similar. Maybe this is the season young Robert steps up to the plate all over Europe. Hope so as British Speedway needs a lift in respect of up and coming riders on the World stage (beside Woofie who is already established).

One would think that after last season he would have better quality lined up IF he can afford it and IF they want to come to UK. After what the BIG PR disaster of the 70th Anniv rain off - what it cost to fly in and accomodate all those guest plus the big dinner - rain offs and the loss of a no doubt profitable BH meeting against Somerset. Throw in the fact he openly admitted he had to cut back costs (hence we all know why no team kevlars). Factor in poor possible attendances with the poor start. Loss of revenue in general. Who knows what his plans will be, but I am sure he will want to avoid another failed season or I fear he may consider dropping a league (or two) or maybe even getting out of the biz ?? Hope not but I am sure even now he has been thinking of options long term as the sport seems to be diving deeper with dropping fan support in UK Speedway since the fixed day agreement and bad weather losses. If its his main source of revenue being a full time owner/promoter with his min source of income it seems a thankless task trying to stay at the top of his game when riders around him drop form like its raining stones. Notwithstanding issues such as the CH visa situation.

Brady and his team being literally slaughtered in Sweden. Losing 42-18 away and another not so good night for Brady. 4 points from 4 rides with no bonus and one excl. Got a feeling he may not get a 5th ride but could be wrong. Hope he is better when back on UK soil tomorrow. Holder a bit better although his team losing AGAIN... 6 paid 7 from 3. Woryna not so good in same team with 3 paid 4 from 3. Sundstrom 4 plus 2 from 3 rides. He certainly racks up some bonus points this guy. But as we know overseas form means nothing in UK as certain posters have made mention of many times.

Nuh its called keeping the forum topic interesting. It might work or it might fail. Who knows, but for those of us genuinely interested in the sport doesnt do any harm to try and engage in sensible dialogue rather than personal peeing contests ;-)

Its going to be interesting as a lot will be to do with timing. If he gets it right he could well bring in an 8 pointer plus Chris H to replace both Sundstrom and Grazoniak and get within the 42.5 limit. I know it sounds crazy but for that also to happen Brady MUST keep his 20 meeting rolling GSA below 8. Timing again dictates he has to achieve that over the next home meeting and maybe also the one after against Wolves depending on when Matt would juggle all the figures for a redeclaration. His official GSA prior to last night was 7.64 and after yesterday crept up to 7.67. Fortunately its gauged over the last 20 meetings. Of course Spaniak and Woryna have crept up to 4.92 and 5.08 and will probably go up again against Rye House and Wolves ?? - However to offset that Sundstrom has gone down to 5.33 as fortunately for team building purposes his 10 bonus points don't count on the GSA's. I am sure that Matt has all of the figures well in hand as he contemplates maybe building/redeclaring the team within the 42.5 point limit. As a footnote I assume Nielsen will keep his 3.67 point limit irrespective come the new GSA's effective after the meeting with Wolves on 23/5 as he would not have ridden the 4H&4A meetings to qualify for a new GSA come 1st June. Another small bonus as his 2 meeting GSA has crept up to 4.5 and may climb a bit higher after 2 home meetings. Having said all this there is of course the small matters of 1) Can he afford an 8 pointer 2) Would one want to come to the UK anyway with so many already committed to POL/SWE/DK/SEC/SGP/National Team and all the SGP qualifiers riders such as Piotr Pawliki will be trying to qualify for. The next 2 weeks definitely going to be interesting.

On the subject of Josh G poor form. Could him giving up Champ in an all out attempt to break into POL (Nice 1) have any bearing on it. I saw in a recent interview he said he was spending up to 4 days a week in POL and was in effect living out of a back pack. We know he applied and got his POL licence and he said he was doing a lot o practicing out their to prove to the Poles he was worthy of inclusion, although those few matches he has ridden in were hardly impressive. Josh is a rider who for years has done well in the pressure cooker of riding every few days (if not more) in both Champ and Prem and also was well noted for taking on plenty of guest bookings at the last moment for teams with rider shortage due to injuries etc. Bottom line though he was based in UK and not constantly trundling off to POL/SWE etc. May not be any connection but not coincidental that by changing a proven routine where he was on the bike every couple of days in Uk has been swapped by living out of a back pack between POL and UK every few days without that guaranteed routine of plenty of rides. Just a thought.

I would assume that IF Killer could not commit to Poole due to his prior contract in DK which would have meant him missing 9 home meetings (approx), then would it not be the same story IF they tried to sign Klindt ?? Nicolai would have been made aware he was not part of Poole's 2018 team plans so no doubt he would have therefore commited to a full season riding in DK. He rode his first match for Holsted last week. If the same logic applies as for Killer then one would assume he wont be a possibility for Poole come any redeclaration of the team end May/June. Same may also apply to young Frederick Jakobsen who Matt was interested in. He rides in the same Dk team as Killer so I assume same problem applies. I see Kacper Gomolski is twiddling his thumbs a bit not getting selected in the normal starting 7 for Fabulaz and looks like that will continue unless some riders lose form. May also be a reluctance to loan him out to another team. Partly his own fault having been insistant he move back to POL EXL having been a heat leader in Nice 1 last season. He did reasonably well in same tournament as Brady in Leszno yesterday. BUT having just typed that I notice he was also riding in DK last week. Has he commited a full season or would he be able to drop DK in favour of UK IF.... Poole were interested in signing him in a redeclared team. These fixed day agreements (where UK were supposed to be MON/THUR) is surely narrowing the changes possibilities for those who decide to buck the agreement and race on WED. We already saw how the likes of Lambert were able to walk away from the PREM Riders Champ last week due to a contract in DK. Its going to be interesting what Matt can come up with IF he does decide to redeclare. What with riders already commited to POL/SWE/DK it maybe narrows the field, unless his main aim is to try and squeeze another 8 pointer in IF Brady's rolling GSA can be kept just below that magic 8 mark. But then an 8 pointer will cost no doubt a small fortune and do they really want to commit to UK. Much as i would love to see say Piotr Pawlicki back in UK is his main aim is going to be POL/SWE/POL National team plus most importantly qualifying again if possible for the SGP via the various meetings and subsequent final. As it looks currently I have my doubts if Chris Holder coming back will solve the problems unless some of these non performing riders get their finger out. Plus what is going to be available if they don't. I think Chris will have his up and down meetings but hopefully will get above his current GSA. Going to be an interesting 2/3 weeks coming up I think.

I do hope that the astonishing loss of form of the Pirates this year (except Brady) isnt about to suddenly strike again. Worrall signed on temp cover (for now) only yesterday. His first meeting since for Glasgow (his home track) has scored 2 from 3 rides (incl a 15m handicap start) so far against Workington. Okay its only one meeting and one swallow doesnt make summer, however, even by his standards its a bad meeting (so far) plus Workington beating them on their own track by 7 currently. Bewley has also just set a new Glasgow track record just prior to current track grading. Hopefully Worrall will get his bad meeting out of the way today as we dont want similar when he rides for Poole this coming week.

Surely this has to be one big wind up ???? Just checked the Polish stats for 2018 and cant find him riding for any POL EXL or POL Nice 1 Club which shows I suppose how much potential he has retained ?? If it is true then I think fair to say Ford has not got much money plus perhaps it is correct that none of the top guys want to risk racing on UK tracks. What happened to Vaculik would no doubt also be on some riders minds and for sure none of them want to risk it for the peanuts UK pays in comparison to both Pol/Swe. Hope it isnt true as unless he is coming in on some crazy low av at reserve then makes no sense to me. Better to get Klindt back instead of Smolinski. Think we are in for an interesting next 10/14 days as Matt has to redeclare his new team in time for the new GSA's (last qualifying day being 23rd May where also the new riders get their first GSA's under the 4 home/4 away which coincides with Poole's home meeting with Wolves).

Not so from the mercurial Sundstrom. A heady 2 from 4 rides. Seems he is continuing his good form shown for |Poole and Gorzow (not). I can see him losing at least 2 of this 3 team slots at this rate. Sorry forgot he also rides in SWE League 2 so maybe he can score a few points against those riders who are lower class. Having said that tonight in sweden Woryna scored only 4 from 4 rides incl one tape exclusion and Holder only scored 7 paid 8 from 5. Seems only Brady is holding it up at the moment. Kildermand finally got it together though with 12 plus 1 from six after a pointless first ride.

I think Klindt is a half decent reserve but have my doubts as a top half of the team rider. In his 12 matches in 2017 mainly as reserve he achieved 5.78 (excl BP). Sundstrom currently in main body (even if partly protected riding at 2) is 5.75 excl BP based on his first 4 league matches. Who has the greater scope to improve. I would argue probably Sundstrom if he gets a similar new rolling GSA come 23/5 which is the last qualifying meeting on the 4H/4A effective from June. In an ideal World I would love to see a Woryna (currently 4.89) and either a Klindt/Sund as reserve partner but cant see that happening. Sundstrom is ideal to keep if they are looking to strengthen further up as one would HOPE that his av will eventually climb. Cant help thinking they will persevere with Shanes if only because they need the points to strengthen at the top. If they go too strong at reserve that would scupper having say Holder/Kild or maybe another 8 pointer come in. It would clear the muddy waters a bit if we could at least be told there was a good chance Chris will be back from 1st June as it would be a clear indication he still formulates part of the team when the new rolling GSA's for all riders come into effect. In the meantime we can only play the guessing game on what may be the team combo come 1st June.

Looking at Matts interview in the Echo I cant help thinking he may be planning as flws wef 1st June Think he maybe viewing it as a reshaping based on. BK/JG/JS on their new rolling av (Brady now on 7.64/Josh on 6.79) - Sundstrom will if he keeps at current season av will drop to what he is presently achieving approx 5.75 excl BP. Woryna currently on about 4.89 so would drop into reserve which is what most of us hoped he would do before the Spaniak move. Chris Holder to come back on his 7.16 GSA as chances are we wont see him before June ?? - Kilderman in to replace Spaniak. His current av is 7.37 but even if he stayed at his assessed GSA of 7.17 he would fit in a redeclared team just below the 43 point team limit. That would maybe explain persevering with Spaniak a bit longer as he knows it would also justify emptying him if he continues as is and would potentially swap for a better rider ?? Ok chances are they wont get top of the league but after the current start I think Matt would happily take a play off place. Let's be honest. Whatever he does now probably wouldnt help us salvage points at either Swindon or Rye House so start thinking ahead for the plan B come 1st June. Ideally I would like to see another proven 8 pointer come in after the 1st June but that might require more tinkering on av. Having said that if we dont get decent individual rider points from both of those matches then will be interesting what Matt attempts come the visit of say Rye to Poole. If the av by then indicate they could fit a new 8 pointer. No doubt Matt has fine detail on all of this info on riders current rolling GSA's are as well as what potentially riders would get as new rolling GSA's come 1st June. (23rd May is last date for new GSA calculation which coincides with Wolves coming to Poole). One thing for sure is that Woryna at reserve would be great as he will undoubtedly get better. No doubt there are other poss rider combinations out there.

I wonder if Matt is beginning to think when will I wake up from the nightmare which has so far been 2018. Firstly it must have cost a tidy sum to put together that 70th Anniv meeting in March which was rained off and the cost to put together that dinner/dance and all the accomodation/flight costs of those special guests. No meeting and no income must have been a big hit to his pocket. That was followed by 2 home rain offs incl the normally well attended and no doubt profitable Bank Holiday meeting against local rivals Somerset. Next we have the situation of Chris Holder which is no nearer conclusion despite earlier comments of it taking approx 2 max 3 weeks when first announced in March. The lack of any news from the club on when it may be resolved not forthcoming instead just a stony silence yet he is racing in Poland and for Australia also in Poland only yesterday as well as best pairs meetings. The lack of any news or a sensible update hardly helps. I find it hard to believe they cant put at least some kind of anticipated time frame on a resolution to the personal situation. Then there is Kildermand the cover (or maybe something more permanent) performing as some of us with an idea thought he might i.e to his Polish form of the last 2 seasons instead of that flair SGP rider many thought we were getting. Add to this both the Poles and Sundstrom struggling. One I can maybe understand but all 3 ??. Then again Sudstroms POL form both last year and this is enough to tell the story. Spaniak - God knows whats happened there as although he did have a good season last year in both Nice 1 and SEC (did ok), maybe looking deeper into his previous seasons in Nice 1 tells its own story as nowhere near what he was last year. Even Rybnik (where he rides as first heat leader) may end up dumping him after his woeful efforts this year so its not just a UK thing. Woryna - Its as if you can discount his 2017 brilliant POL EXL season and he has gone back in UK to riding to the level he was in 2016 ??. POL he seems to be holding up ok but then so far still not the brilliance (so far) of 2017and he is riding one league down. He is only 21 though and definitely worth keeping. Thought he would be one of our 2 reserves which was a brilliant move (before Spaniak came along). Maybe Matt has plans on that front from June onward anyway where I think he will really shine. Then there is the team kevlars story which was put out with what they deemed as positive spin for being the only Prem Team not purchasing team kevlars. Have never agreed with it and when you get the likes of Woryna in those red kevlars looking so out of place to the others can you really tell me that is progress ?? Matt himself said he was having to cut back on costs but maybe nearer the truth was the amount of money thrown a the 70th Anniv meeting and Dinner/dance which no doubt such a saving contributed towards the ultimate PR disaster due to the rain off. Of course maybe he had hindsight thinking that maybe at least 2/3 of this team may not be riding in it come June ?? Even so I dont think the use your own kevlars creates the right team image although some die hard fans will probably disagree. Believe me I was brought up seeing Speedway from 1970/71 as a teenager so was used to riders having their own leathers back in the day. The sport has moved on and all top teams have team kevlars and personally I prefer it that way. Of course Matt may not want to awake from his nightmare at the moment anyway. Doesn't he have Spaniak and Woryna lodging with him when they are in UK and possibly Sundstrom also stays over ??. Chances are he probably wants to skip the morning after the nigh before breakfast chat anyway as he contemplates possibly serving some eviction notices as the situation worsens. In fairness to Matt I dont thing anyone forsaw the beast from the east and the continual rain that hit us the way it did causing such nightmares. Also certainly not having a situation like the Holder delay as well as so many riders not performing to what we know they are capable of in a league weaker than both POL Leagues. I feel a bit for Brady. Only 21 - still learning and not an out and out number 1 so early in his career. Of course he will have up and down meetings but thats how it is when you are on the progression path. He needs a true number one in the team like he has in POL so he can concentrate on his own riding and not carrying the can for the whole team. I still have faith in Matt sorting it but for sure I dont envy him the task as its not easy, notwithstanding what cost may be involved when money is thin on the ground in UK Speedway.

MFF made a not irrelevant comment on the Somerset match thread in which he qtd "Keep this 1-7 for the rest of the month then the following happens. Out of the KO Cup. Probably 7 points off 4th spot in the Premiership. Another hammering by the Robins on Monday and if Rye win then we are bottom of the table" Poole's next 4 matches to get to the first set of new rolling GSA's for the 3 new riders are assessed are Swin A - Rye H A - RH H - Wolves H. I cannot see this current team getting any points at Swin or the small specialised RH track. We may scrape 3 points against Rye at home as they are as bad as our team on present form. Against Wolves we may well struggle again. Matt will have a decision to make as last thing he wants is not being able to use these riders current GSA's come 1st June as Spaniak and Sundstrom are below their current levels. Woryna will surely be kept and could be an ideal shoe in at reserve with either maybe Shanes or even maybe Klindt returning. I still think Matt may be thinking of using the Kurtz/Graz new rolling av to his advantage to maybe accomodate a new 8 pointer ?? (maybe Piotr Pawlicki) if he can afford such expense. I am not conviced jiggling it around to accomodate Holder and Kildermand is the answer as I have severe reservations as to which way killers career is going He is as inconsistent here as he is in Poland hence why he has been so low in POL EXL av for last 2 seasons and didnt make the cut in SGP. We could well have a situation where this could work to Ford's long term advantage that a combination of Kurtz new GSA of 7.64 (below 8) - Josh G a bit down on his starting GSA now 6.79 - Woryna currently on 4.89 after 4 meetings - replace Spaniak - even Sundstrom is on a current 5.75 (another poss reserve if he continues as is as his BP dont count on GSA. Holder still on 7.16 so wont be facing a higher GSA come June which surely he would have got had he started the season. There are numerous possibilities and permutations which Matt can use to his advantage (totally legally and not cheating) to his advantage to take advantage of riders falling av and poss plans for new riders coming in to get within the 43 point limit come 1st June. Maybe why he is keeping fairly quiet about the situation currently ??

It helps when visiting formutites contribute to sensible dialogue to make discussion interesting rather than assuming Poole are on the fiddle. Like Matt Ford would really enjoy us losing both our away and one of our home matches against its biggest rivals just to manipulate averages. I dont think so......

Honestly Gav. I think they would prefer to have the original riders performing to what they should be achieving taking into a/c what they should be capable of. However what are they supposed to do if the riders themselves don't step up to the plate ??. Persevere and potentially finish nearer bottom than top - possibly out of the play offs - lower crowds with the promotion possibly losing their backsides financially after the wash outs already this season to compound lower support level if they kept losing. Don't think either Ford or any other promoter would have much choice other than do what you can within the current rules to maximise what you can get out of it. I really cant believe that Matt Ford would enjoy being near enough bottom come third week of May if they continue in the form many have been so far. Its a distinct possibility unless they do get their fingers out.