STEVEHOLS54

Certainly doing my brain cells in ;-) The trouble with taking early retirement (by choice) is that you over think like hell who it might be when its the club you support. In football you get too many names put in the public domain but with you Skidder its like trying to squeeze the lemon drip by drip to get some hints/clues. Impatient ?? - Of course - but that's what the forum is all about. Speedway fanatics/fans scouring for info on who may be riding for their club next season even if we are still at the front end of this. Liverpool FC named Keita as signed for next year. Why cant we at least get a rumoured name or reasonable clues to point us in the right direction. Even if they don't come off it stops the over active brain cells scouring the SGB website and GSA's for clues as to who it might be ;-)

Hope its not TJH as for me a backward step based on his scores this season and to me has gone backwards wherever he is riding both UK and Cont. I notice his UK av for Kings Lynn is dropping even further below the current GSA 5.69 based on woefully low scores last 1/2 weeks. Only mention it as never know if you are dropping a hint Skidder. He meets certain of PPF criteria as he rides UK - has ridden UK. Is he not a Poole asset as if so surely doesn't need KL approval to discuss next season as he is already as asset. Also interesting how his scores are dropping with his av as the season draws to a close. In 16 rides since last GSA came out he has got a massive.... 12 points i.e 3.00 per 4 rides. Not bad if you are trying to drop your av (not saying he is but IF.....) Just checked KL site and up to last night his av had dropped to 5.00. Indeed maybe becomes interesting if he gets some engines instead of peddle power for next season :-) Maybe I am way off the mark but keeps it interesting ;-)

Personally would like to see a certain KN back with his low GSA as he could go in as both a Brit - Loyal Poole man who tries his hardest for Poole - If he keeps fit (finally after last 2 seasons of bad luck) would be a great as second reserve on his 4.22 current GSA which with luck and only 2 meetings left he could maybe maintain ;-) To have say both Newman and Woryna as the reserves would really be good. Again league set up for 2018 - points limits - what make up of team has to be if 2 Brits minimum all go into the melting pot. Would like to think Kyles release earlier this season is behind both parties. For sure from a Biz point of view and with his av dropping and Pooles bad form, decisions had to be made which were not pleasant. His injury for sure affected his form but had he not been released, then from a GSA perspective Ford would have been up a creek. Fortunately Kyle got fixed up but certainly as a rider who gives 100% having him float in and out of reserve would be good. Where that puts James Shanes ??? - Still not sure what is the right and wrong move as he will still be weak at reserve although hopefully a little better. Will Matt Ford take any risks next year though after this year. Somehow I don't think he will. Interesting thoughts to ponder.

Would be very wary of having Klindt in the team to start 2018 again after the very serious injuries he had. His own racing site quoted after the injury. This scan showed: torn ACL, partially torn MCL, damage on the inside and the outside meniscus, cartilage damage on the tibia as well as a crack in the bone. I think Matt Ford should think carefully before including him for 2018 with question marks over his fitness. They sure cant afford to carry any riders in 2018 and for sure Klindt will no doubt do the journeyman norm of signing all 4 leagues again for next year same as he did this year. I think like Lahti he is good at reserve but when he moves out he can be a liability. (Checking the results in POL and Sweden one may even argue Lahti is younger so maybe more scope. My issue with Lahti is again he rides everywhere so its like move on to next meeting whichever Country i.e POL/SWE/UK/Finland). Factor in the unknown factor of whether Klindt will be physically 100% fit and healthy leaves for me questions as to whether they can afford to take a risk. Of course so much revolves around what the league/s will look like in 2018 - what will be new team averages - will there be a min requirement of 2 Brits per team etc. Having said that Klindt is a Poole asset which is not the same as saying he will be in the 2018 team. Ford has plenty of assets who don't ride for Poole. Must admit scratching my head on who this rider may be who you said yes to 2 questions out of about 6 ;-)

Initial thought is Kyle Newman with his new 4.22 GSA average. If it is then he only has 2 meetings left at home to Wolves and away at Rye H. In which case he wont bust a gut with next season and going into the team on a low av at reserve to consider ?? If its not is this another hidden gem that Matt has unearthed that is below anyone else's radar ;-) Come on Skidder leak a few more clue's ;-)

I still reckon both Holders - Would love Magic back but a lot depends on whether he wants to come (dont think he is happy in Sweden) and how our averages are looking come close of season - Or maybe an already mentioned Kildemand if he is just over 7 points. The one unknown if if we do have to field 2 UK riders then who would that second one be ??. Obvious candidates are Newman/Stark and lastly /Wright who is a Poole asset. I am sure Matt Ford is already way ahead of the game on who he wants. Wasn't Kildemand a Poole asset once or maybe still is ??

Knowing your inside info Skidder is this just a guess or you have an idea a Dane may be coming ;-) Would be a bit concerned if it is a Dane - why ?? They also race normally on a Wed so if we go fixed race nights i.e Wed/Thur (instead of Mon-Thur) I forsee clashes. (Of course if a Dane cuts out DK in a swap for UK then different of course). Other than NKI I have reservations on most Danes. Many have gone backwards or sideways in my opinion such as Kildemand - Jepsen Jensen - Micha Bech. I could be missing a hidden gem in amongst the mainly av looking ones of course. Like another one on a poss hidden low average that Matt has been scouring over the averages on ;-) NKI would always be welcome but hopefully not H.Anderson again. Certainly not Bjarne P !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think Jack Holder may have just secured his Polish EL Club for 2018. Scored 10 paid 11 from his first 4 rides for Torun today which may well keep them in Polish EL. Blew a last place in his 5th but no problem as meeting already won. Chris Holder 9 paid 10 from 5 rides. Not too bad for a has been and probably on Medzinski's equip again as his own has been so dire. I am sure Jack will be offered a contract for 2017 which will be pressure off for him as he will probably drop UK Prem to concentrate on UK/Poland and maybe also get a Swedish Club. Will also improve his riding to race against World class riders every week. Brady Kurtz 8 plus 9 from 5 rides at Fogia Lezno -Woryna not so good this week with 5 plus 2 from 5 alsoaway but lets not be too hard As Fogio had Piotr Pawliki - Kildermand - Saifutinov - Zengota and Kolodziej who were all riding at home. Bradys score pretty good from heat leader berth. Think he is another one who will get a contract next year in Poland after his last 2 matches coming in at ROW Rybnik. Another step up the progress ladder for both Aussies at 20/21 years of age. Both of them plus Woryna for 2018 will be entertaining. Sorry should have said drop UK Championship not Prem - Duh !!!!!!!

Matt imo partly got it wrong. He chose Kazp as number one and you rightly forecast he could be hit and miss. But seriously could anyone have seen they guy ride so badly so consistently ?? Could anyone have seen a rider of his status really sinking to a 5.51 AV and his injury was not the reason as he had performed badly both before and after. I expected some poss inconsistency but not that bad. His whole demeanour was as if he wasn't really that bothered. Having said that he is yet another who was having speed issues with his bikes in both UK and Poland. Don't know what it is about the tuning but too many top riders have had similar issues. Klindt is a difficult one. Good signing when at reserve and in his 10 league matches he actually achieved 6.48 av incl bonus points. Factor in his injury which pushed it down a bit then I am 50/50 on whether he is a good signing or not. You could say that if thinking is Woryna and Shanes at reserve (ok we are playing the guessing game here but the topic is after all Poole 2018), then Klindt at 5.78 maybe not a bad move as if and when Woryna pushes up a bit then you know Klindt will almost certainly score plenty at reserve. I think Matt knew he would swing in and out of reserve but his thinking may have been the team would always get a good return from the reserves races and Klindt could be used in at least 5 races if Shanes struggled. Kurtz over performed for me prior to his injury but I think too much is put on him. Only his second season in EL and too much Darcy Ward comparison put on the guy. I still think his final av may drop a bit as he continues to gain experience. Jeez the guy isn't 21 until later this year. He will be good. How good ?? - Still a work in progress and if he finds that ruthless streak he sometimes can display then the sky is the limit. Jack Holder - Performing for me sometimes better than expected. Bit older than Kurtz by some 8/9 months but one UK season less than Kurtz and displays promise for the future. Again a work in progress but too much unfair pressure put on these 2 young guys who should be allowed to learn their trade if the so called heat leaders had done their jobs. Shanes was always going to struggle but he was partly there for being a UK young rider on a 2 point av and in fairness he never fails to entertain. My worry is if he continuous to put priority on Grass Track and now long track then I see his continuing to struggle. The guy needs to do what Kurtz and Holder Jr did in getting lots more UK meetings around the Champ tracks. For me Lahti was a bad signing but it seems more done in desperation. His av in Poland and Sweden was so up and down I cant say I was surprised at what happened. But nobody else was interested with Continent commitments still going full on in July. H.Anderson - For me Poole will never win a league with him in it now. Can be brilliant and frustrating in equal measures. Has too many problems at important times in a meeting but on his day can gate and hold anyone. He is a typical journeyman in twighlight of his career. Jeez 4 leagues plus indiv tournaments incl Danish Champ - SGP/Euro GP qualifiers and possible matches is too much. Guy is never in one place for more than 5 mins. Its like oh well on to the next meeting. Kennett - Did Ford have many other options knowing also how badly things were going. Could have kept Kazp but we all know he would still be av 5/7 max had he stayed. Yes I will agree in part Matt Ford was to blame but also some riders haven't stepped up to the plate and performed as hoped/expected. Hopefully next season will be different.

A question for Skidder1 and anyone else wanting to comment. My thoughts posted earlier on 2018 Poole team were. Magic/Chris Holder/B.Kurtz/J.Holder/Kacper Woryna/Kyle Newman/J.Shanes On the basis of current GSA (starting 21/8) it just scrapes in (by 0.25) on a 42 point av and meets a 2 Brits rule. Skidder commented on another thread that he thought I would be lucky to see 3 or 4 of those names in for 2018. My question to Skidder when back online is who in his opinion does he NOT think will be in my 7 named and any other thoughts on who would/might be. Same comment to other posters. Early days I know but certain posters incl Skidder seem to normally have insight as to what MIGHT happen like the Woryna signing which was kind of hinted or clues given well before the announcement.

Hi Gavan As an observer and occasional Poster I think you do post a lot of interesting points many of them are true. However I do notice how its like waving a red rag to a bull when you rise to the bait with Starman which occasionally is entertaining but much of your exchanges become too much. Starman is equally to blame. I enjoy both your contributions at times and manyof our comments Gav as a non Poole supporter merit respect and are true such as the situ's with Klindt/Newman and the very frustrating Kazp. You made plenty of observations and comments on all 3 and some well in advance of what eventually happened in respect of how good/bad they became or stood still on av. etc. I welcome both your inputs guys but just wish you would both keep it to Speedway with the odd bit of banter. You are both valuable members of a breed of supporter most would welcome to get interested in the sport. Lets not totally wipe each other out. There's room for characters like you two guys as you are the lifeblood of the speedway even if you don't see eye to eye on many things in the sport :-)

Ok Skidder. I will bow to your superior inside knowledge of what's going on within the inner sanctum of the Poole Promotion/Management as you seem to have inside info quite early sometimes with small and large hints/clues as to what may be coming/going on ;-) I think my idea of line up is cutting it very fine on the points anyway if they do leave it at 42 with a min of 2 Brits per team. Especially with plenty of meetings still left. Be interesting (for me anyway) to see how far out I am come the day when the team finally announced. No doubt Matt will drip feed it to us all in order to keep interest up during those long dark nights and forgettable days of Winter :-) At least we know he will be trying his hardest to avoid this seasons mess.

Just hope the fans and club exercise patience with the lad. The UK tracks are not like Poland and in my opinion UK requires more skill on smaller tracks which are also in the main not up to the quality of the Polish tracks OVERALL. Magic proved that having some years in UK improved him no end over a 3/4 year period to make him what he is now i.e a potential World Champion. Lets not get carried away though. Poole need a period of calm after the calamities of this year. If they can secure a top flight number one (like a Magic again) and have good strength in depth with the likes of Kurtz and Holder JR to hopefully come on as well as maybe Shanes and Newman (or a.n.other) then the lad wont have the World on his shoulders. Whatever the general opinion is on Chris Holder (and for sure its divided especially amongst other teams supporters) I still think he is a steal at 7.16. Some are writing him off as a has been who is only using British Speedway. This year its no secret he has struggled with the engines not being tuned good enough to give him the speed we know he is capable of. Look at his scores in Poland when he rode 2/3 matches on Medzinskis equipment recently. Much more like the old Chris Holder. I think a more focused Chris in 2018 back at his home club Poole on hopefully better running equipment with his friend and co Aussie Brady as well as younger Brother Jack could revitalise him. At 7.16 one would be crazy not to take him back. For all the negative press amongst some supporters and Promoter.../s he could be a good influence if he channels the positives. He needs to also put the Darcy horror and the difficulties of his personal relationship last year behind him. Coming back to Poole also keeps him close to his boy who we know he loves to bits. I would like to think a more focused Chris will rediscover his form if he can also get his engines and mind set sorted. But he is not the only one. There are plenty of riders out there who we call World Class who have had tuning issues this year and many have struggled to find the answer. Incl Woffinden - Kilderman - Saifutinov - Zagar and others. Few have been able to put their finger on where the lack of speed is coming from. They are hardly poor riders. There seems to have been a lack of consistency among a lot of top riders this year due to power issues.

I read a post not long ago that said that the BSPA plans for the flwg season would be known by promoters well in advance (i.e Aug) of the Nov annual meet so they have plenty of time to study/chew over comment on etc. Maybe I am wrong but if that is the case then MAYBE forward thinking promoters already have a handle on what may be happening next year subject to them all subsequently agreeing (or not) of course. Hence maybe the curve ball comment from Matt Ford in his announcement re Woryna.

No - No. I have Kyle in my team idea for 2018 (under topic Poole 2018, just posted) so I don't want him to be over eager in piling up the points ;-)

I wonder if I have worked out Matts master plan for 2018 under my post on Poole 2018 Topic ;-)

I partly agree Gavan. I think he will have good/bad and av nights just as riders such as Magic did when first they came over. Not many can be instant hits as it takes time plus they need to mature and adapt. Yes he got beat by riders as mentioned but lets be honest he has beat lots of the top riders in PEL if you go thru the statistics on http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://www.sportowefakty.pl/zuzel/fogo-unia-leszno&prev=search In fact he has climbed to 11 in PEL av this week out of the 55 riders who have had multiple PEL meetings this season. He is above many WW class riders. That up from number 39 last year from only 12 matches. He isn't quite 21 yet so a good 2 years younger than Lebedev. I agree they need a big hitting number one and I don't mean Chris Holder. This is my idea of a 1 to 7 for 2018 if theBSPA maintain 42 points av for 2018. Just my opinion. Magic/Chris Holder/B.Kurtz/J.Holder/Kacper Woryna/Kyle Newman/J.Shanes Believe it or not on current BSPA av about to kick in on 21/8 it just scrapes in by 0.25 of a point. Also on basis of Magics 2015 closing av. Plus includes 2 Brits. Now of course much of that would depend on some many variables like would Magic want to come back. He indicated a while ago not happy with Swedish Sponsorship and preferred UK. What will happen on the 4 current riders riding av between now and end of season. Now that line up would attract most Speedway supporters whether it be league winners or not. Opinion of course and just hope Matt Ford not wincing at what he may already have planned out if its same/similar. Don't think it is just 2 leagues. Think its 3 leagues. For example Shamek Pawlicki is riding Polish EL - Swedish Premier and Danish Premier as well as countless other comps like European Grand Prix - Best pairs - World Team Champs plus all the Polish individual meetings.

I agree. Also in my opinion IF the BSPA want to change the rules on riders old EL averages from years gone by then serve a clear seasons notice on what the new rules would be. It should not be unusual for a forward thinking promoter to already be planning his team for the following year in say July/Aug of the current season. If the ground rules are clear then at the BSPA meeting in Nov it should be made clear that any riders coming in on old av for the season 2019 would have either a multiplier or that riders Polish/Swedish av applied. I don't think anyone objects to progress but it should be done in a professional manner so all promoters know what the rules will be with a clear seasons notice.

Last GSA was 4.65 and rightly so he should keep his last British average. He is young and still does not have a proven track record on UK tracks other than 4.65. Why is it that when it is Poole it is always points manipulation but with any other club its acceptable. Like Musiliak or Jonasson or even the great Kazparsak riding at reserve due to the ridiculous false average he obtained with his woeful efforts for Poole.... I repeat again that any other promoter who could be bothered to take the time could have signed the guy at 4.65 for next year (or at least tried). Had they trawled through the Polish stats which even I can do, then it was obvious he is a rising talent who has come thru the Nice PL - a few matches in Swedish 2nd Div plus a one season tester when only 19 at Coventry where he got some valuable experience. He is improving and is riding Polish Extral for Rybnik as one of 2 juniors in each PEL team. Meaning he has had chance to beat both other juniors and World Class seniors. Helping him to 14th in PEL averages. But just look at his score in the Pairs last night 12 plus 1 from 6 rides and in one race he beat Zmarzlick and Pawlicki. He deserves a chance and at 4.65 and subject to no curved balls by BSPA or SCB he is hopefully a good signing on a good average for team building in 2018. I hope he joins both Brady Kurtz and Jack Holder in an exciting 3 of the best young riders around. Personally I would like to see both Shanes (if he will also ride for another club in Champ to get more experience) and maybe Newman for 2016 if the rules are that the club has to have 2 Brits. That would hopefully still leave a shovel load of points for 2 top riders. Plenty to ponder on even though we a re only just entering the third week of August.

Am not crying for Holder. I do not disagree he deserves some form of punishment for his actions and already advised as such. I think the ban/sacking/punishment/fine should have been done much closer to the incident. If the decision was to ban him for the rest of the season then in my opinion it should have been done there and then not hot foot on the back of the last transfer day sacking. Just feel it would have been more professional if the 28 day ban/sacking and SCB ban had been done same time. End result is similar but just think it would have looked better for the sport as for me it looks like Chapman was in cahoots to maximise the damage. Also as for night in question. If I was Poole team manager who knew that the 2 top KL riders were coming out then after the defeat to the same team at home the night before I can hardly blame the guys for taking on a severely weakened KL team for the rest of the meeting to get 3 or 4 points. it could prove decisive in a play off situation if only for the semis gate revenue and possible TV money. What I question more is whether Chapman and the SCB were in cahoots in dishing out the punishment and in the manner it was dealt/handled. To conclude. Yes both deserved some form of punishment (certainly Holder did). That I don't pretend to defend.

Matt will always have his haters amongst those mainly jealous of the fact he is the most successful Promoter in the modern day era in UK. He will always be branded as arrogant/a cheat and numerous other negative things by those who would love to have had him running and investing/bringing good sponsorship and riders to the club. The guy is a full time promoter who has given countless hours into trying to make them the Man Utd of Speedway since he took over. Of course there will always be the snipers damning him when he makes smart moves around the system but fully legal in processing them. He has the foresight most seasons to sign good riders and help develop good young talent. He can see things in overseas averages as well that others cant be bothered to spend the time on. Not everything always works but even Alex Ferguson didn't get it right every season. Long may that continue. He was also right in expressing his open thoughts yesterday about performance and 2018. Its his club and he is fully entitled to say what he thinks and what he intends to do in putting it right. I applaud him for it and too right that maybe 4 of the current squad wont be back next year HOPEFULLY. He is saying what most Poole fans think anyway in my opinion. Those that snipe at Matt Ford or the fools calling him Lord Fraud can keep it up as it will continue to mean he is doing his best and giving his all to get the best riders and the most entertainment he can get for Poole Supporters and Speedway in general. Now lets see the usual suspects come forward with their negative comments towards his. The joy of the forum huh

This whole matter will continue to divide opinion. I just think the whole banning/sacking process has been somewhat devisive to me in the way the ban then the sacking then the 9 month ban all followed a set pattern despite comments that Chapman has no connection or influence on SCB decision. Yeah right !!!!!!! A ban/fine/sacking if need be should have been done at the same time in my opinion. What the fine and ban should have been are open to debate but the whole process to me seems like a plan hatched by Chapman and the SCB agreed behind the scenes. Will be interesting to see if any appeal sees a small reduction in ban period so he can at least start next year. I am not going to defend Holder's actions on the night (or should I say the way he went about it). But the penalty does not to me fit the crime. There is still plenty that Chapman has to answer for in the preparing of the track - its condition and also his actions one week later in cancelling a meeting due to his sudden attack of feeling for the safety of the riders which one week earlier he didn't seem too concerned about. There are no winners in this sad saga but Chapman in my opinion has hardly been a shining light in the way he has conducted himself not only on the track preparation but his subsequent actions and comments. As for Holder the punishment is now in place and now its just a case of if there is any time reduction and or fine reduction on appeal.

Don't get where there would/should be an issue. If Poole can (or IF) they announce Woryna for 2018 then why can't they announce Holder ??. He is after all a Poole asset who was on loan to Kings Lynn for 2017. If there was any potential blocking by the BSPA/SCB then to me it is obvious insider rigging from both parties to deliberately try and block him riding in UK. To me this whole episode stinks anyway from Chapman as so called BSPA Chairman and his friends at the SCB. Fair enough to have given him the 28 day ban but to sack the guy on the very last day of the transfer window knowing he would not get another team for this year was just nasty. Then behold after the dust settles on that he gets a 9 month ban meaning he cannot guest for anyone or ride again until 3rd week April. Of course Chapman had absolutely no input or internal discussions with any of his mates at the SCB to influence such decision. Anyone who doesn't think he had his finger in the pie on that move is deluded in my opinion. I don't agree with the way Chris handled the matter so don't defend the initial 28 day ban and maybe also the fine levied. But sacking on the last day of the transfer window after the 28 day ban and later a 9 month ban levied by the SCB. For me Chapman is not the man to take this sport forward. His subsequent outburst on the Jack Holder and we are going to bring the full force upon Peterborough were those of a bitter man. So pleased that Peterborough still won it in front of their biggest ever crowd for the event. As for Holder Jr not riding in all Sunday meetings now for Peterborough ?? They are out of the race for the top 4 anyway and if Peterborough and Jack can earn from the arrangement financially and for experience for Jack then good on them. I don't care if he is an Aussie or a Brit.

Just my opinion. Could be many combinations of news. For example Chris Holder or Holder and Woryna or Milik or Janowski or any combination but then maybe none. There was another comment a while ago that Magic was not happy at the sponsorship he was getting in Sweden and was happier in UK and may reconsider for 2018. That's the beauty of the Forum. Cultivates thought provoking comments about the future when w can get away from the regular bickering that goes on with some about bugger all to do with Speedway

Don't see the problem. Well discussed on PL Forum that it may be Kacper Woryna with his bargain average - Family connection - Young up and coming rider doing well in Polish EL. Before the snipers start the "He shouldn't be allowed in on such a low 4.65 Prem Av let's not forget that at 20 (not quite 21) he qualifies as a junior so one of 2 juniors in PL teams under Polish rules. Meaning he has done some racing in part against other juniors in each match which admittedly has helped him to be in top 14 of Polish av. But let's not muddy the waters. The guy has a lot of talent. Loves Poole and openly stated it over 2 seasons ago and with his family connection (His dad rode for Poole). Matt Ford has made no secret of the fact that several of this team will not be in it next year. Also I read somewhere on the Forum that he has been signed as an asset. That does not guarantee he is in the team fr next year. BUT at 4.65 points average just turning 21 later this month. Had his season in EL with Coventry at 19/20 one would be a fool not to include such a perspective talent at 21. He has come on leaps and bounds having ridden for promoted team ROW Rybnik in this years Polish EL (his forst in the top tier). The riders below him in Polish Av are eye watering. For me Promoters who are forward thinking (and not cheats as some fools seem to keep saying) need to be applauded.